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View Full Version : Favorite Cutting cycles



J*
03-17-2003, 02:45 PM
Hey Fella's

I have never done a cutting cycle before, but I want to do one this summer. Just wanted to check in and see what people enjoy. I personally don't go very high with doses, just because I haven't needed to to attain success.

Let me know your favorites when you get a chance!!!

-J

Presser
03-17-2003, 03:51 PM
winny/tren/prop 50/75/100 ed

pudgy
03-17-2003, 03:52 PM
same here except 50/100/100

LA
03-17-2003, 04:53 PM
close but...

Winny- 50ed
Tren- 100 ed

Sans the prop. No estrogen conversion this way and the winny should be enough to keep Willy happy.

pudgy
03-17-2003, 05:22 PM
Originally posted by LA
close but...

Winny- 50ed
Tren- 100 ed

Sans the prop. No estrogen conversion this way and the winny should be enough to keep Willy happy.

but your missing the cutting of the prop, imo

Harvey Balboner
03-17-2003, 05:32 PM
Same as Pudgy, but throw in EQ 400mg weekly, & clen for 2 weeks on 2 off.

I really want to try anavar in my next cutter.

LA
03-17-2003, 05:37 PM
but your missing the cutting of the prop, imo
I understand that test has cutting properties but test (including prop) converts to estrogen. Now add in the fact that if you are going to cut you probably have some body fat to lose, thus you will be producing more aromatise (meaning more estrogen). This is why I think using test in a cutter is 1 1/2 steps forward, 1 step back. You can take test and some anti-e's but I feel you get better results from just dropping the test and replacing it with tren.

50 winny/ed and 100 tren/ed is 1050mg of AS a week. More than enough to keep muscle (based on J*'s post about not wanting to use high doses). Both tren & winny have cutting properties that IMO are better than test. The winny will keep Willy happy and you'll save money on anti-e's.

Remember this is just my opinion and I have frequent discussions about this often. And I will say most people don't agree with me. That is unless they try a no-test cutter.

One more note- if the cycle is going to go beyond 6 weeks I would use proviron or a low dose of test at the beginning instead of the winny. Then switch to the winny later. Your joints and liver will be happier that way.

J*
03-17-2003, 09:26 PM
Thanks for all the help fella's...I don't have too much knowledge on cutting, so it is good to read the discussions. LA...what do you think about putting some clen or T3 in there with the winny and tren? Also, are you saying that you don't take any anti-e's during this cycle? I'm assuming that you still use clomid after.

Thanks again fella's

J

Presser
03-17-2003, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by LA
I understand that test has cutting properties but test (including prop) converts to estrogen. Now add in the fact that if you are going to cut you probably have some body fat to lose, thus you will be producing more aromatise (meaning more estrogen). This is why I think using test in a cutter is 1 1/2 steps forward, 1 step back. You can take test and some anti-e's but I feel you get better results from just dropping the test and replacing it with tren.

50 winny/ed and 100 tren/ed is 1050mg of AS a week. More than enough to keep muscle (based on J*'s post about not wanting to use high doses). Both tren & winny have cutting properties that IMO are better than test. The winny will keep Willy happy and you'll save money on anti-e's.

Remember this is just my opinion and I have frequent discussions about this often. And I will say most people don't agree with me. That is unless they try a no-test cutter.

One more note- if the cycle is going to go beyond 6 weeks I would use proviron or a low dose of test at the beginning instead of the winny. Then switch to the winny later. Your joints and liver will be happier that way.

i agree to a point about no test but only for cutting for contest prep, otherwise no point in dropping test for a cutting cycle just to look good on the beach, just my opinion though

japan69
03-17-2003, 11:22 PM
Hi all.

I'm on my second bulking cycle (up to 210 lbs from 170 before my first cycle) now... but I have put on quite a bit of fat, too. So, I'm pretty interested in doing a cutting cycle in late summer/fall, as well.

Can we get a bit more specific and confirm some info that I have collected in my research for a good cutting cycle below? Also, any tips on how long to run everything would be great.

Thanks!!

-j69

------------------------------
AS
Winnstrol 50mg ed?
Tren 75mg/100mg ed?
Test Prop 100mg ed?

Thermo
Clen 2wks / ECA 2wks

Diet
Calories below 2000 per day
Carbs below 20g per day
High Protein 300g per day or more / High Fat

CARDIO 2X per day
AM: 30-45 minutes run before breakfast
PM: 30-45 minutes at the gym

Weight Training
Heavy weights, low reps (same as bulking)
Lessen this at all?

Anti-estrogens
Nolvadex on hand
Need Liquidex during?
Clomid for post cycle

rado
03-17-2003, 11:23 PM
Originally posted by Presser
winny/tren/prop 50/75/100 ed


I agree. Can't go wrong here.:D

japan69
03-18-2003, 02:06 AM
bump

gymrat
03-18-2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Presser
winny/tren/prop 50/75/100 ed

that's a great cycle. I just can't tolerate injections ed. I do eod with the prop and tren but take the winny (tabs) ed.

J*
03-18-2003, 01:06 PM
Just wanted to bump this back up for japan69...some good questions that I too am interested in...especially the use of clen, which I don't know too much about.

-J

LA
03-18-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by J*
Thanks for all the help fella's...I don't have too much knowledge on cutting, so it is good to read the discussions. LA...what do you think about putting some clen or T3 in there with the winny and tren? Also, are you saying that you don't take any anti-e's during this cycle? I'm assuming that you still use clomid after.

Thanks again fella's

J

Ok if you are talking about dieting as a whole now and not just gear use, let's start with diet & cardio. Post your plans for both.

Clen & T3 is a popular combo (and one of my favs). If you never done clen before ramp up slowly then come off clean. If you've done clen there is no need to ramp up. The purpose of ramping is to see how your body handles it. Most people prefer clen in a 2 weeks on, 2 off fashion. I like it 1 on, 1 off. Clen tends to weaken me in the gym by the 2nd week. Use ECA on your off weeks.

With T3 you can take a conservative or agressive route. A conservative route would be to add a small dose of T3 after your metabolism has slowed. The other choice is too ramp up and down on T3. Again, most people agree that 6-8 weeks is the longest you should be on T3 (unless your thyroid is whacked already).

No anti-e's necessary unless you add test into the cycle. The reason is winny and tren don't convert to estrogen. The tren still can cause gyno but it is rare (although I'm sure someone has got it this way). With tren being a short acting ester, you can always stop at the 1st sign. Tren & test have a synergistic effect when it comes to gyno. So knocking down the estrogen is again important.

Clomid and/or HCG are necessary for post cycle recovery.

J*
03-18-2003, 03:58 PM
Thanks for the advice LA...as for diet and cardio plans, I haven't gotten that far yet. I would definately be looking at high protein/fat and lower carbs along with a good combo of lifting and cardio. Basically I am looking to maintain the muscle I have while cutting some fat (I guess this is the obvious idea of a cutting cycle).

Also, I don't know anythign about ECA...I feel as though I should because I have seen it mentioned so much, but I am drawing a blank.

Thanks for all the advice again...once I figure out exactly what I want to do, I will get down to more specifics with my diet and exercise program.

J

japan69
03-18-2003, 11:50 PM
ECA = Ephedra - Caffeine - Aspirin

I'm not sure what the recommened dosages are for each one, but last I heard they are all legal and easy enough to buy and create your own ECA stack.

Can you use Ma Huang instead of actual Ephedra?



SO, anyone have any advice on the lifting during a cutting cycle?
I plan to do cardio twice a day for 30-45 minutes each (once before breakfast and once in the evening), but I am unsure if you lift any different when cutting.

I have heard that you should still lift heavy... but do you cut down on the workout at all? like maybe only 3 days a week or something? less exercises on a particular muscle group?

Any advice would be great.

Harvey Balboner
03-19-2003, 12:05 AM
Scientific research has shown that the combination of 25 mg ephedrine, 200 mg caffeine, and 300 mg aspirin is ideal to produce a synergetic effect. Those who apply this combination three times daily, approxi-mately 30 minutes prior to a meal, will significantly burn fat.

Harvey Balboner
03-19-2003, 12:08 AM
I don't see any reason to not lift heavy, the idea that doing high reps with light weights is stupid.

Japan:
About your cycle, have you ever ran fina before? If not go with 75 or 100mg EOD, until you get used to it, and adjust it from there, but that will probably do for your first go with fina.

What have you ran before? Previous cycles?

japan69
03-19-2003, 02:26 AM
Harvey,

I don't know if I can even get fina since I am in Japan.

Previous cycle was:

Wk 1-6 D-bol 35mg
Wk 1-8 Sustanon 250mg
Wk 1-8 Deca 200mg
Went from 169 to 183 lbs

Current cycle (On wk 5 now):
Wk 1-5 D-bol 30mg
Wk 1-12 Sustanon 500mg
Wk 1-12 Deca 400mg
Wk 1-12 EQ 400mg
Already went from 189 to 212 lbs


Thanks for the ECA dosage, btw...

-j69

rippedchef
03-19-2003, 08:53 AM
When cutting I do cardio AM only and I change my training split to incorporate less rest between sets and excercises(30 sec-1 min),I usually stay in the 10-12 rep range and super set 2x per week(ie: I train upper body-lower body-off-upper-lower-off-off)Cardio 5x a week and at least 1 day a week totally off-gotta stretch-don't overlook it -it will do wonders -diet is key and keep workouts intense-your body will do amazing things with propper stimuli-Good Luck!!

J*
03-19-2003, 09:44 AM
Thanks Japan.

Good to hear all these things. What are peoples feelings of T3 vs Clen???

Also, if I only ran a cutting cycle for say 6 weeks, do you think that would be effective? Lets just say I were to do this

1-6 75 fina eod
1-6 50 winny eod
1-2, 5-6 Clen (not sure on levels)
3-4, 7-8 ECA (25ephedra, 200 caffine, 300 aspirin 3X a day)

Of course I would be very strict with diet. I also might sneak prop in here, but right now all I have access to is QV and the shit killed me last summer.

Let me know,

Thanks again fella's

J

Harvey Balboner
03-19-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by J*

Also, if I only ran a cutting cycle for say 6 weeks, do you think that would be effective? Lets just say I were to do this

1-6 75 fina eod
1-6 50 winny eod
1-2, 5-6 Clen (not sure on levels)
3-4, 7-8 ECA (25ephedra, 200 caffine, 300 aspirin 3X a day)

Of course I would be very strict with diet. I also might sneak prop in here, but right now all I have access to is QV and the shit killed me last summer.


You will probably need test, most people can't take fina without it killing their sex drive, so you need test to combat that. You can probably get by with 6 weeks, but you would be better off to go 8 weeks, and you will be happier with the results.

LA
03-19-2003, 02:10 PM
I like it without the test and I do disagree with Harvey. I think Winny will be fine for sex drive. Everyone is different and what may work for Harvey or me may not apply to you.

If the diet goes beyond 6 weeks put some prop in the beginning and keep the Winny at the end. More than 6 weeks of winny is too hard on the liver and joints. Just remember to use anti-e's during the test portion (dex, fem or sin).

Did I mention I think estrogen is evil?

japan69
03-19-2003, 11:13 PM
Lots of great advice in this thread. Thanks all.

So... my big problem will be trying to find someone who is willing to ship a fina kit to Japan.

Also, what about using EQ in a cutting cycle? I have heard alot of people talk about this but haven't seen it mentioned here. Any ideas?

-j69

J*
03-19-2003, 11:25 PM
Bump for the EQ question...I'm pretty sure I have seen it used in cutting cycles as well Japan. Also, thoughts on T3 would be great.

Thanks for all,

J

Harvey Balboner
03-19-2003, 11:45 PM
eq is great for a cutting cycle, it really helps make you more vascular. The only downside is it makes a lot of people hungry, so that wouldn't be good on a diet.

japan69
03-20-2003, 03:38 AM
Cool. that is what I have heard. I am on EQ now and don't feel any more hungry than before. I still eat to the verge of puking either way. *smile*

Anywho...

So, how about for an 8 week cycle:

Wk 1-8: EQ 400mg (2x200mg shots per week)
Wk 1-8: FINA 75mg EOD (move to ED if nec & body is OK with it)
Wk 3-8 Winstrol 50mg EOD if injected/ 20mg ED if pills
Wk 1-2, 5-6 Clenbuterol
3-4, 7-8 ECA

Look OK?

Questions:
1. Since I am not in the US, I may not be able to get the Fina, if so would the stack suffer much?

2. I know everyone needs to find their own Clen dosage, and I will do so, but does anyone know what an average newbie dose might be? Just a ballpark figure would be nice.


Thanks, bros!

-j69

Competitor
03-20-2003, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by LA
I understand that test has cutting properties but test (including prop) converts to estrogen. Now add in the fact that if you are going to cut you probably have some body fat to lose, thus you will be producing more aromatise (meaning more estrogen).

NEVER do ANY cycle without test - cutting or offseason or whatever.

Let the anti-Es take care of the estrogen kickback - plain and simple.

I am yet to come across a client or fellow competitor that has had trouble with reducing bodyfat levels while on the correct ratio of test to anti-Es.

Just my opinion but.......

Skip

LA
03-20-2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Skip
NEVER do ANY cycle without test - cutting or offseason or whatever.

Let the anti-Es take care of the estrogen kickback - plain and simple.

I am yet to come across a client or fellow competitor that has had trouble with reducing bodyfat levels while on the correct ratio of test to anti-Es.

Just my opinion but.......

Skip

Sorry, still disagree. Estrogen is evil!

papapump112
03-20-2003, 12:01 PM
What about running ldex with your Prop/Fina/Winny cutter? Do you all reccomend anti e's at all and if so which?

japan69
03-21-2003, 04:21 AM
Right. I forgot the test, so then for my 8 week cutting cycle... might be more like:

Wk 1-8: Test Prop 100mg EOD
Wk 1-8: EQ 400mg (2x200mg shots per week)
Wk 1-8: FINA 75mg EOD (move to ED if nec & body is OK with it)
Wk 3-8 Winstrol 50mg EOD if injected/ 20mg ED if pills
Wk 1-2, 5-6 Clenbuterol
3-4, 7-8 ECA


Would still appreciate your opinions on this!

-j69

LA
03-21-2003, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by papapump112
What about running ldex with your Prop/Fina/Winny cutter? Do you all reccomend anti e's at all and if so which?
That would work. Again I wouldn't do it for contest prep or any event that you want to be your absolute very best at.

On 200mg of cyp a week for me it took 1mg of dex/ed to drop the estrogen levels down to the normal range (had the blood tests done). Normal range isn't optimal. Obviously your results will vary but let's say u do 1mg of dex/ed during a cutter. That's between $14 and $21 a week on anti-e's! Give me extra fina instead. Let the winny keep Willy working.

japan69
03-23-2003, 08:51 AM
bump

Competitor
03-24-2003, 05:32 AM
Originally posted by LA
That would work. Again I wouldn't do it for contest prep or any event that you want to be your absolute very best at.

On 200mg of cyp a week for me it took 1mg of dex/ed to drop the estrogen levels down to the normal range (had the blood tests done). Normal range isn't optimal. Obviously your results will vary but let's say u do 1mg of dex/ed during a cutter. That's between $14 and $21 a week on anti-e's! Give me extra fina instead. Let the winny keep Willy working.

I think you, as everyone is different, would be the exception to the rule.
I have had many clients, friends, fellow competitors, that use test and don't have any of the estrogen levels that you say you had while using moderate dosages of anti-Es.

Are you sure you are a guy? ;)

Skip

LA
03-24-2003, 11:40 AM
Yes Skip, I am a guy- LOL

dpsquat
03-24-2003, 09:04 PM
Originally posted by Skip
NEVER do ANY cycle without test - cutting or offseason or whatever.

Let the anti-Es take care of the estrogen kickback - plain and simple.

I am yet to come across a client or fellow competitor that has had trouble with reducing bodyfat levels while on the correct ratio of test to anti-Es.

Just my opinion but.......

Skip

with the new anit e's the days of droping your prop out 5 days early are almost nonexistant............ I agree with skip!!!!!people would drop their test out cause 10mg didnt get rid of h20.. nodays is a differnt ball game!

madchemist36
03-24-2003, 09:08 PM
for 600-800mg of test what would be the correct ratio of ldex in your opinion. i am talking bout complete suppression of gyno. cuz i am very prone to it.

dpsquat
03-24-2003, 09:12 PM
try 25 mg eod You want to hold off on the larger doses untill your closser but you should be switching to prop around 6-8 weeks out!

Competitor
03-25-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by dpsquat
try 25 mg eod You want to hold off on the larger doses untill your closser but you should be switching to prop around 6-8 weeks out!

.25mg not 25mg. - that was a typo.

DP, I got yer back. ;)

Skip

TeAm Dp

dpsquat
03-25-2003, 07:25 AM
thaks skip !

Gear101*
03-25-2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by Presser
winny/tren/prop 50/75/100 ed

:D and cardo