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bigmeb
04-03-2002, 09:18 PM
what is ala and how does it differ from milk thistle

NAPALM1
04-03-2002, 09:51 PM
ALA is an insulin mimmicker and a anti-oxidant. It is not a liver detoxifier. You best bets for liver detoxification are, milk thistle, Artichoke and liver-right. They can all be found at health food stores. Artichoke is about the best OTC liver detoxifier you can use, but its hard to find. Its in a product called Cynara SL. Later

bigjim33
04-03-2002, 11:03 PM
napalm, small from FB posted a while back about ALA being the best thing for the liver

Machine
04-03-2002, 11:25 PM
Written by Fonz at Elite:

1: Drug Metab Dispos 2001 Jun;29(6):855-62 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


New metabolic pathways of alpha-lipoic acid.

Schupke H, Hempel R, Peter G, Hermann R, Wessel K, Engel J, Kronbach T.

Department of Metabolism and Development, elbion AG, Radebeul, Germany. Hubert.Schupke@elbion.de

The excretion and biotransformation of rac-alpha-lipoic acid (LA), which is used for the symptomatic treatment of diabetic polyneuropathy, were investigated following single oral dosing of [(14)C]LA to mice (30 mg/kg), rats (30 mg/kg), dogs (10 mg/kg), and unlabeled LA to humans (600 mg).

Thats right H-U-M-A-N-S!!!!!

More than 80% of the radioactivity given was renally excreted. Metabolite profiles obtained by radiometric high-performance liquid chromatography revealed that LA was extensively metabolized irrespective of the species.

"Irrespective of the species......"

Based on a new on-line liquid chromatography/tandem mass spectroscopy assay developed for negative ions, LA and a total of 12 metabolites were identified. Mitochondrial beta-oxidation played the paramount role in the metabolism of LA.

MITOCHONDRIAL BETA-OXIDATION!!!!

Thats the energy powerhouse of the cell.....  

So animal take a HIKE!!!

Simultaneously, the circulating metabolites were subjected to reduction of the 1,2-dithiolane ring and subsequent S-methylation. In addition, evidence is given for the first time that the methyl sulfides formed were partly oxidized to give sulfoxides, predominantly in dogs. The disulfoxide of 2,4-bismethylmercapto-butanoic acid, the most polar metabolite identified, was the major metabolite in dogs. Furthermore, new data are presented that suggest conjugation with glycine occurred as a separate metabolic pathway in competition with beta-oxidation, predominantly in mice.

PMID: 11353754 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Ok that one was for animal.

And yet another........

1: Exp Clin Endocrinol Diabetes 1996;104(3):284-8 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Improvement of insulin-stimulated glucose-disposal in type 2 diabetes after repeated parenteral administration of thioctic acid.

Jacob S, Henriksen EJ, Tritschler HJ, Augustin HJ, Dietze GJ.

Hypertension and Diabetes Research Unit, Max Grundig Clinic, Buhl, Germany.

Insulin resistance of skeletal muscle glucose uptake is a prominent feature of Type II diabetes (NIDDM); therefore, pharmacological intervention should aim to improve insulin sensitivity. Thioctic acid (TA), a naturally occurring compound, was shown to enhance glucose utilization in various experimental models after acute and chronic administration. It also increased insulin-stimulated glucose disposal in patients with NIDDM after acute administration. This pilot study was initiated to see whether this compound also augments glucose disposal in humans after repeated treatment. Twenty patients with NIDDM received TA (500 mg/ 500 ml NaCl, 0.9%) as daily infusions over a period of ten days. A hyperinsulinaemic, isoglycaemic glucose-clamp was done on day 0 and day 11.

Hello.......

Parenteral administration of TA resulted in a significant increase of insulin-stimulated glucose-disposal by about 30% (metabolic clearance rate for glucose, 2.5 +/- 0.3 vs. 3.2 +/- 0.4 ml/kg/min and insulin-sensitivity-index: 3.5 +/- 0.5 vs. 4.7 +/- 0.4 mg/kg/microU/ml; p < 0.05, Wilcoxon-Rank-Sum-Test). There were no changes in fasting plasma levels for glucose or insulin;

IMP: NO CHANGES IN FASTING plasma levels of glucose or insulin.

this can be explained, however, by the short period of treatment and observation. This is the first clinical study to show that a ten day administration of TA is able to improve resistance of insulin-stimulated glucose disposal in NIDDM.

So, even a 10-day burst can GREATLY improve your insulogenic
control.

Experimental data suggest several mechanisms in the mode of action. As the present investigation was an uncontrolled pilot trial, the encouraging results call for controlled studies to further elucidate the clinical relevance of the findings and the mode of action of this compound.

PMID: 8817248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Now, this next one is in reference to the liver helper
post. Seems that there was ONE other substance
that merited mention.

1: Am J Clin Nutr 2000 Aug;72(2 Suppl):653S-69S Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Thiol homeostasis and supplements in physical exercise.

Sen CK, Packer L.

Departments of Surgery and Molecular & Cellular Biochemistry, The Ohio State University Medical Center, Columbus, OH 43210-1252, USA. sen-1@medctr.osu.edu

Thiols are a class of organic sulfur derivatives (mercaptans) characterized by the presence of sulfhydryl residues. In biological systems, thiols have numerous functions, including a central role in coordinating the antioxidant defense network. Physical exercise may induce oxidative stress. In humans, a consistent marker of exercise-induced oxidative stress is blood glutathione oxidation. Physical training programs have specific effects on tissue glutathione metabolism that depend on the work program and the type of tissue. Experimental studies show that glutathione metabolism in several tissues sensitively responds to an exhaustive bout of exercise. Study of glutathione-deficient animals clearly indicates the central importance of having adequate tissue glutathione to protect against exercise-induced oxidative stress. Among the various thiol supplements studied, N-acetyl-L-cysteine and alpha-lipoic acid hold the most promise. These agents may have antioxidant effects at the biochemical level but are also known to influence redox-sensitive cell signaling.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 10919972 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

The compound would be NAC or N-acetyl-Cysteine which
some people mentioned.

So, the list hecomes:

1. ALA
2. Tylers
3. N-A-C
4. Calcium D-Glucarate
5.(Optional: L-glutathione)

This will explain why NAC and ALA are very, very good
substances for liver protection and a whole list
of other things.

1: Curr Top Cell Regul 2000;36:151-80 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Thiol-based antioxidants.

Deneke SM.

Division of Pulmonary Diseases/Critical Care Medicine, University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio 78284, USA.

The thiol redox status of intracellular and extracellular compartments is critical in the determination of protein structure, regulation of enzyme activity, and control of transcription factor activity and binding.

Read this:

Thiol antioxidants act through a variety of mechanisms, including (1) as components of the general thiol/disulfide redox buffer, (2) as metal chelators, (3) as radical quenchers, (4) as substrates for specific redox reactions (GSH), and (5) as specific reductants of individual protein disulfate bonds (thioredoxin).

See those 5 mechanisms???

Well, MILK THISTLE DOES NOT TARGET THEM
ALL OF THEM&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

So, that pretty much FLATTENS the pro-MT group.

I feel MT sinking............... as it bloody should be.

So, POINT, SET, and MATCH to Fonzy...... &nbsp;


The composition and redox status of the available thiols in a given compartment is highly variable and must play a part in determining the metabolic activity of each compartment. It is generally beneficial to increase the availability of specific antioxidants under conditions of oxidant stress. Cells have devised a number of mechanisms to promote increased intracellular levels of thiols such as GSH and thioredoxin in response to a wide variety of stresses. Exogenous thiols have been used successfully to increase cell and tissue thiol levels in cell cultures, in animal models, and in humans. Increased levels of GSH and other thiols have been associated with increased tolerance to oxidant stresses in all of these systems and in some cases, with disease prevention or treatment in humans. A wide variety of thiol-related compounds have been used for these purposes. These include thiols such as GSH and its derivatives, cysteine and NAC, dithiols such as lipoic acid, which is reduced to the thiol form intracellularly, and "prothiol" compounds such as OTC, which are enzymatically converted to free thiols within the cell. In choosing a thiol for a specific function (e.g., protection of lung from oxidant exposure or protection of organs from ischemia reperfusion injury), the global effects must also be considered. For example, large increases in free thiols in the circulation are associated with toxic effects. These effects may be the result of thiyl radical-mediated reactions but could also be due to destabilizing effects of increases in thiol/disulfide ratios in the plasma, which normally is in a more oxidized state than intracellular compartments. Changes in the thiol redox gradient across cells could also adversely affect any transport or cell signaling processes, which are dependent on formation and rupture of disulfide linkages in membrane proteins. Therapeutic thiol administration has been shown to have great potential, and its efficacy should be increased by selecting compounds and methods of delivery that will minimize perturbations in the thiol status of regions external to the targeted areas.

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Academic

PMID: 10842751 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

A small abstract....

1: Free Radic Biol Med 1998 Apr;24(6):1023-39 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Alpha-lipoic acid in liver metabolism and disease.

Bustamante J, Lodge JK, Marcocci L, Tritschler HJ, Packer L, Rihn BH.

Department of Molecular and Cell Biology, University of California, Berkeley 94720-3200, USA.

R-alpha-Lipoic acid is found naturally occurring as a prosthetic group in alpha-keto acid dehydrogenase complexes of the mitochondria, and as such plays a fundamental role in metabolism. Although this has been known for decades, only recently has free supplemented alpha-lipoic acid been found to affect cellular metabolic processes in vitro, as it has the ability to alter the redox status of cells and interact with thiols and other antioxidants. Therefore, it appears that this compound has important therapeutic potential in conditions where oxidative stress is involved. Early case studies with alpha-lipoic acid were performed with little knowledge of the action of alpha-lipoic acid at a cellular level, but with the rationale that because the naturally occurring protein bound form of alpha-lipoic acid has a pivotal role in metabolism, that supplementation may have some beneficial effect. Such studies sought to evaluate the effect of supplemented alpha-lipoic acid, using low doses, on lipid or carbohydrate metabolism, but little or no effect was observed. A common response in these trials was an increase in glucose uptake, but increased plasma levels of pyruvate and lactate were also observed, suggesting that an inhibitory effect on the pyruvate dehydrogenase complex was occurring.

Hello....

During the same period, alpha-lipoic acid was also used as a therapeutic agent in a number of conditions relating to liver disease, including alcohol-induced damage, mushroom poisoning, metal intoxification, and CCl4 poisoning.

And....

Alpha-Lipoic acid supplementation was successful in the treatment for these conditions in many cases. Experimental studies and clinical trials in the last 5 years using high doses of alpha-lipoic acid (600 mg in humans) have provided new and consistent evidence for the therapeutic role of antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid in the treatment of insulin resistance and diabetic polyneuropathy. This new insight should encourage clinicians to use alpha-lipoic acid in diseases affecting liver in which oxidative stress is involved.

Experimental AND clinical trials............in none other than humans to boot&#33;

Publication Types:
Review
Review, Tutorial

PMID: 9607614 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

And i even thought of you guys who think ALA(since its
an acid) can give you an ulcer.
(You know who YOU are...... &nbsp;)


1: Acta Gastroenterol Latinoam 1996;26(3):167-71 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut


Thioctic acid protection against ethanol and indomethacin induced gastric mucosal lesions in rats.

Gutierrez-Cabano CA, Valenti JL.

Department of Surgical Pathology II, Faculty of Medical Sciences National University of Rosario, Argentina.

BACKGROUND/AIMS: The gastric protective effect of thioctic acid, a sulfhydryl compound, against chemically induced mucosal lesions has not been reported. METHODS: Fasted Wistar rats (24 h) were treated (gavage administration) with graded doses of thiotic acid (12.5, 25, 37.5, 50 mg/kg) followed 0.5 h later by the gavage administration of 1 ml 96% ethanol or intraperitoneal administered indomethacin.

Ok, I&#39;ll explain:

Thats 12.5mg/Kg to 50mg/kg. For our sakes we&#39;ll take the
low end.
So, if someone is 100Kg, its 1250mg ALA.

Followed by a 1ml load of ethanol or approx. .96g
of ethanol.

The gastric mucosa was examined grossly and histologically for an evaluation of the lesions. RESULTS: Pretreatment of rats with thiotic acid has shown a significant decline in the mean number, size, incidence and severity of mucosal lesions induced by both ethanol and indomethacin.

And,

CONCLUSIONS: This is the first evidence that thiotic acid protects the rat gastric mucosa against chemically induced damage. Its is speculated that this finding may prove to be important in the development of improved therapies for the prevention and treatment of gastric ulcers in humans.

PMID: 9180952 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

LOL...seems ALA even protects against ulcers.... &nbsp;

Fonz