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Stingray
04-18-2002, 06:44 PM
Right now I'm taking just Protien.  One shake (two scoops) a day after a workout.  I am dieting and doing a lot of cardio trying to trim down before I start my cycle.  I've lost twenty pounds in the last two months so I'm ready to start now.

My cycle includes:
-500mg of sust250/week
-200mg of Deca/week
-25mg of D-bol ED for either 4 or 6 weeks

I will be taking four or five times as much protien when I start the cycle?  What other supplements should I take while on this cycle?  And how much?

What should I take to help de-toxify the liver?

Thanks

DannyP
04-19-2002, 01:26 AM
Hey presser what is the saw palmento supp for, i'm not familar with that one.

Danny

mbstrong
04-19-2002, 10:07 AM
Saw Palmetto is primarily used to treat benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), an enlargement of the prostate gland that affects about half of all men older than fifty.  BPH is a noncancerous growth of the prostate gland.  If the prostate grows in mature men, it pinches the urethra, or urine tube, and problems begin, including painful urination and frequent nighttime trips to the bathroom.  Researchers estimate that BPH affects about ten million men in the United States -- some in their forties, half of all men older than fifty, and four out of every five men older than eighty.  

Research conducted in Europe since the beginning of the 1980's shows that saw palmetto reduced by nearly 50 percent the number of times BPH sufferers had to get up to go to the bathroom during the night and significantly reduced painful of difficult urination.  More recently, researchers compared a saw palmetto extract with finasteride, the conventional BPH drug.  The study involved 1,098 men diagnosed with BPH, and researchers concluded that both treatments relieved BPH symptoms in about two-thirds of the men.  But while the finasteride reduced the prostate size it also decreased sex drive and potency.  Saw palmetto didn't show a significant reduction in prostate size, but the men taking the herb did not see a deduction in sex drive or impotency.  Before scientists turned their microscopes to saw palmetto, Native Americans used the berries as a general tonic and to treat impotence.  

The herb has become very popular in the United States and it is the fifth top-selling phytomedicine on the market, according to a 1998 survey by Whole Foods magazine. Today in Germany alone, the sale of BPH products totals about $400 million, and 90 percent of those sales are herbal preparations using saw palmetto.


I can get it for $10.00
Bottle 250, 500mg

That is cheap

What dose does everybody use????????

BStrongBwell*
04-20-2002, 08:49 PM
For liver detox, definitely go with 1,000mg milk thistle/day.  There are numerous studies done on the silymarin, the active ingredient.  ALA, a proven anti-oxidant is supposed to have protective properties as well.  Make sure you get plenty of the other antioxidants like E, C and A as well (should be part of your multi)

I think Saw palmetto is more for the prostate.  There are quite a few studies on this too.  I did read an article somewhere that saw palmetto protects the prostate by binding with that organ's androgen receptors (a competitor of test for those same receptors).  It was implied in the article that this competition for androgen receptors might not be limited to the prostate gland, and that it might extend to skeletal muscle.  I don't think it was proven by any stretch, but since I read that I stay away from the saw palmetto on cycle just in case.  I suppose if I ever have problems pissing, I'll change my mind though.

BStrongBwell*
04-20-2002, 08:57 PM
Here's some info on liver protection.  IMO, if you take a good multi-vitamin, eat clean and get a good mix of lean meats with plenty of veggies, and take an extra antioxidant like ALA, and take your glutamine powder and plenty of protein, you should be good to go on protecting your liver.  

Here's some more info though...

There are two phases the liver uses to chemically bond with and remove toxins from your body.  The basic chemicals you need to provide to your liver in order to do this properly are:

Glutamine
Glycine
Taurine
Cysteine
Vitamin C
Vitamin E
Natural Carotenoids
Thiamine (Vitamin B1)
Riboflavine (Vitamin B2)
Nicotinamide (Vitamin B3)
Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5)
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6)
Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Folic Acid
Biotin
Inositol
Lecithin
Zinc

Some extras also known to contribute include:
St Mary's Thistle (Milk Thistle)
Cruciferous Vegetables
Green Tea


AN EXPLANATION OF THIS "GROCERY LIST"
------------------------------------------
AMINO ACIDS
Specific amino acids are essential for the liver to breakdown toxins and drugs and also for the efficient metabolism of nutrients by the liver.

Glutamine
This amino acid is required for phase two detoxification in the liver and is required in increased amounts by those who consume excessive alcohol. It is able to reduce the craving for alcohol. Glutamine supplementation is helpful for intestinal disorders such as peptic ulcers and leaky gut syndrome. Leaky gut is the term used to describe an inflamed condition of the lining of the bowel, which makes the bowel too permeable, so that toxins and incompletely digested food particles can be absorbed from the bowels directly into the liver. This increases the workload of the liver and may cause many health problems. Glutamine is used as fuel by the brain and by the lymphocytes (white blood cells). It is essential for the lymphocytes to fight viruses such as hepatitis B and C.

Glutamine is converted in the body into glutamic acid, which, along with the amino acids cysteine and glycine, is converted into the powerful liver protector glutathione.

Glutathione is essential for liver phase two conjugation reactions used during detoxification of drugs and toxic chemicals.

Glutathione is a potent antioxidant that is produced in the healthy liver where it neutralizes oxygen molecules before they can damage cells. Glutathione is a component of the antioxidant enzyme glutathione-S-transferase, which is a widely acting liver-detoxifying enzyme. Indeed large amounts of glutathione are stored in the liver, where it detoxifies harmful compounds so they can then be excreted via the bile. Glutathione helps to reduce damage from cigarette smoke, alcohol, radiation, heavy metals, drugs and chemotherapy. Glutathione plays a vital role in preventing liver cancer. Glutathione levels decline with age, and this may accelerate the ageing process. It is not worth taking glutathione supplements, as they are expensive and usually poorly absorbed. It is far more effective to increase glutathione levels by giving the liver, the raw materials it needs to make its own glutathione, namely, the amino acids glycine, glutamine and cysteine.

Glycine
This amino acid performs more biochemical functions than any other amino acids. It is required for the synthesis of bile salts, and is used by the liver to detoxify chemicals in the phase-two detoxification pathways.

Taurine
Inadequate levels of taurine are common in those patients with chemical sensitivities, allergies and poor diets. Taurine is the major amino acid required by the liver for the removal of toxic chemicals and metabolites the liver to detoxify environmental chemicals such as chlorine, chlorite (bleach), aldehydes (produced from alcohol excess), alcohols, petroleum-based solvents and ammonia. Recent findings are demonstrating that taurine is one of the major nutrients involved in the body's detoxification of harmful substances and drugs, and should be considered in the treatment of all chemically sensitive patients. Taurine is helpful for fatty liver, high blood cholesterol and gall bladder problems, alcohol withdrawal, hepatitis and jaundice. Taurine is a sulphur bearing amino acid that is present in all good liver tonics for very good reasons. It is required for the healthy production of bile, and the liver uses it to conjugate toxins and drugs to excrete through the bile. It helps the liver to excrete excessive cholesterol out of the body through the bile, and thus is an aid to weight control and cardiovascular health. Doses required can vary from 50 to 2000 mg daily. It is free of side effects but should not be taken on an empty stomach in those with stomach ulcers. It is found in animal protein such as meat, seafood, eggs and dairy products but not in vegetable protein. Taurine is often deficient in strict vegans. Taurine regulates the transport of minerals across cell membranes and stabilises the electrical properties of cell membranes. For this reason, a deficiency of taurine has been linked to epileptic seizures, and combined with vitamin B 6, it has a useful anti-seizure effect in epileptics. It is made from two other amino acids methionine and cysteine.

Cysteine
Cysteine is an amino acid that contains sulphur, and is needed by the phase-two detoxification pathway. It is a precursor of glutathione, which is needed to breakdown pollutants and toxins and has powerful antioxidant effects. Aldehydes, which are toxic breakdown products of alcohol, rancid fats and smog, are partially neutralized by cysteine. A study reported that large doses of acetaldehyde (derived from alcohol), killed 90% of the mice that consumed it. A control group of mice were primed with vitamin C, vitamin B 1 and cysteine, and were then given the equivalent amount of acetaldehyde that had killed 90% of the other mice. None of the supplement-primed mice in the control group died.

ANTIOXIDANTS
Antioxidants destroy free radicals and so help to detoxify and protect the cells of the body, including the liver cells, from toxins.

Vitamin C
Vitamin C is the most powerful antioxidant vitamin for the liver and reduces toxic damage to the liver cells from chemical overload. It neutralizes free radicals generated during the phase 1 detoxification pathway in the liver. Toxic chemicals are far less dangerous if there is plenty of vitamin C in the liver. It helps the liver to regulate cholesterol levels and improves immunity.

Vitamin E
Natural vitamin E is biologically more active than synthetic vitamin E. Vitamin E is a powerful antioxidant that protects fats from damage. Since cell membranes are composed of fats, vitamin E is the best protector of cell membranes. It does this by preventing free radicals from oxidizing cell membranes, which prevents them from becoming rancid. Thus vitamin E can help to protect the membranes surrounding liver cells. Vitamin E is also needed in those with a "fatty liver", where there is an accumulation of unhealthy oxidized fats in the liver cells.

Natural Carotenoids
Carotenoids such as betacarotene are most commonly found in fruits and vegetables and are most significant for human health. It is important to take only natural sources of beta-carotene and other carotenoids. Beta-carotene gets converted in the body to vitamin A and yet has none of the toxic side effects of high doses of vitamin A. Large population studies have shown that low intakes of beta-carotene are associated with a higher incidence of cancer. Beta-carotene is a powerful protective antioxidant.

B GROUP VITAMINS

Thiamine (Vitamin B 1)
This B vitamin has antioxidant properties and is helpful in reducing the toxic effects of alcohol, smoking and lead. Thiamine protects against many of the metabolic imbalances caused by alcohol. Deficiency of thiamine is common in those who consume excessive alcohol and this will often lead to poor mental function.

Riboflavine (Vitamin B 2)
This B vitamin is required during phase one detoxification in the liver, and is crucial in the production of body energy. Riboflavine deficiency is common in those who consume excessive alcohol and should be supplemented in such cases.

Nicotinamide (Vitamin B 3)
This is also known as Niacinamide, and is required by the liver's phase one detoxification system. It is needed for the metabolism of fats and helps to keep cholesterol levels under control.

Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B 5)
Several studies have found that pantothenate can lower cholesterol (by an average of 15%), and triglycerides (by an average of 30%) in those with elevated levels of these blood fats. A study showed that pantothenate speeds up liver detoxification of acetaldehyde after alcohol consumption. This is very important for those who consume excessive alcohol because acetaldehyde appears to be a major chemical in the toxic process that accompanies long term alcohol use. Pantothenate is required in increased amounts in liver disease and in those who use alcohol excessively.

Pyridoxine (Vitamin B 6)
Vitamin B 6 is required for effective phase one liver detoxification, and is essential for physical and mental health. Vitamin B 6 inhibits the formation of a toxic chemical called homocysteine, which accelerates cardiovascular disease.

Cyanocobalamin (Vitamin B 12)
Supplements of this powerful vitamin are essential for those who are strict vegetarians or those with nervous complaints. It is a great energizer of the nervous system and can reduce depression and fatigue. It is required for phase one detoxification of chemicals in the liver, and can help people who are allergic to sulphites, which are common food and wine additives. A study showed that vitamin B 12 can effectively block most of the adverse reactions to sulphites such as hay fever, sinus, headache and bronchial spasms. B 12 is required for the liver to perform methylation, which inactivates the hormone oestrogen and enhances the flow of bile. B 12 is required in increased amounts by those who use alcohol excessively, or in liver disease and pernicious anaemia.

Folic Acid
Is required for the phase one detoxification pathway in the liver and for cell repair and division. There is an increased need in alcohol excess. Some studies have shown that folic acid exerts an anti-cancer effect.

Biotin
Biotin is one of the B vitamins and is produced in the intestines by friendly bacteria. It is found in foods such as nuts, whole grain foods, vegetables and brewer's yeast, and in supplement form. Liver cells that lack biotin will be deprived of the energy they need to detoxify chemicals and drugs. Deficiency of this vitamin is not rare and can cause hair loss, dry flaky skin, rashes and fatigue. Those with a poor diet, alcoholism or long term antibiotic use, are at risk of deficiency.

Inositol
This vitamin is important in fat metabolism, and helps to remove fats from the liver. Deficiency of inositol can increase hardening of the arteries, increase blood cholesterol levels and lead to hair loss, constipation and mood swings. Excessive consumption of caffeine can reduce the level of inositol in the body.

LECITHIN
Lecithin contains healthy fats, which are required for the functional and structural integrity of cell membranes. Lecithin is composed of the B vitamin choline, along with linoleic acid and inositol. A choline deficiency promotes liver damage and can be corrected with lecithin supplements. Choline has shown a protective effect against cirrhosis in animal studies. Trials are now being done to see if this protective effect can be reproduced in humans. Lecithin is vital for fat metabolism and allows cholesterol to disperse in watery solutions so that it can be transported around the body to where it is needed, or removed from the body. This reduces the risk of fatty degeneration in arteries and vital organs. It can help those with the condition of fatty liver caused by incorrect diet or alcoholism.

ZINC
The mineral zinc has antioxidant properties and is part of the powerful antioxidant enzyme called superoxide dismutase (SOD). Zinc is vital for the efficient functioning of the cellular immune system needed to fight infections from viruses, parasites and fungal microorganisms.

ST. MARY'S THISTLE (MILK THISTLE)
Milk Thistle also known as "Silybum Marianum", is a herb with remarkable detoxifying and liver protective effects. It is a very well known liver herb, having been recommended in herbal texts since the late 1600's. Its most active constituent is silymarin, which is a bioflavonoid. Research has shown that Milk Thistle can protect against some severe liver toxins. For example the poisonous mushroom "Amanita phalloides" leads to death in 40% of people who ingest it. This mushroom contains the toxins, phalloidin and amanitin, which are highly destructive to liver cells. Extracts of Milk Thistle containing the active ingredient silymarin, can protect the liver from phalloidin. Some animal experiments found that silymarin was 100% effective in preventing toxicity when given before poisoning by the mushrooms. Silymarin was also effective if given to the poisoned animals within 10 minutes after ingestion. Furthermore, if silymarin was given within 24 hours after ingestion it still prevented death, and greatly reduced the severity of liver damage. Silymarin also protects the liver in animals exposed to alcohol, and the solvent carbon tetrachloride. Liver disorders in humans have been treated with silymarin with promising results. Patients with chronic hepatitis (liver inflammation) had improvements in liver function after taking silymarin for 3 months. Most liver toxins, including alcohol, produce damage to cell membranes via free radical generation. Silymarin functions as an antioxidant and reduces damage to cell membranes. It prevents the formation of leukotrienes, which are dangerous inflammatory chemicals produced by the immune system. Silymarin can increase the quantity of the powerful liver protector glutathione, and improves protein synthesis in the liver.

Cruciferous vegetables
Cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, kale, bok choy, mustard greens and radish, contain important substances such as indoles, thiols and sulphur compounds, which enhance the liver's phase one and two detoxification pathways. Broccoli has a particularly good effect and enhances glutathione conjugation of toxins. There is evidence that cruciferous vegetables are able to reduce the risk of cancer, and the American Cancer Society have been placing large advertisements in magazines with pictures of these vegetables, saying that "A defence against cancer can be cooked up in your kitchen. "

Green tea
Green tea exerts strong antioxidant actions and is also able to inhibit cancer cell growth. The Chinese, who are large drinkers of green tea, have a 60% less chance of oesophageal cancer. Parts of Japan where people drink a lot of green tea have a lower incidence of many types of cancers, including stomach, oesophageal and liver cancer. Green tea may also be of benefit as an aid to weight loss through positive effects on fat and sugar metabolism.