Adding Test to a cycle

DecaDent*

New member
Synthetic AAS increase lean muscle mass,but adding Test to a  cycle does not result in an increase in lean muscle mass......That's the conclusion of this researcher who studied 43 "cycles"..........Anyone have any thoughts/opinions on this?

Rev Clin Esp 2000 Mar;200(3):133-8    (ISSN: 0014-2565)
Inigo MA; Arrimadas E; Arroyo D
Servicio de Analisis Clinicos, Hospital del Servicio Andaluz de Salud de La Linea, Cadiz.
OBJECTIVE: To know the actual abuse of anabolic steroids by amateur athletes in our environment as well as actions and secondary effects resulting from such abuse. METHODS: Analytical observational study from May 1997 to November 1998. Forty-three therapy courses with anabolic steroids among 39 male athletes were studied. Diet and training were standardized for all participants. A verification was made that the test group started from a basal state. RESULTS: Duration of therapy was 6 weeks and the mean total dose was 2,928 mg. Significant differences were found in the test group regarding basal and post-therapy values for: transaminases (AST: 29.8 vs 45.0 IU/l, p < 0.001. ALT: 32.9 vs 51.4 IU/l, p < 0.01), cholesterol, HDL-cholesterol (31.4 vs 19.7 mg/dl, p < 0.01), LDL-cholesterol (145.9 vs 173.5 mg/dl, p < 0.01), LH (2.1 vs 0.2 U/l, p < 0.001), FSH (3.3 vs 0.4 U/l, p < 0.001), free testosterone (14.4 vs 34.0 pg/ml, p < 0.001), 17-beta-estradiol and arm muscular section (98.8 vs 103.7 cm2, p < 0.001). The inclusion of testosterone in therapy introduced a significant difference with respect to the use of synthetic anabolic agents alone, in total testosterone (4.5 vs 0.9 ng/ml, p < 0.001) and 17-beta-oestradiol, but neither with respect to free testosterone nor arm muscular section. An 84.6% of individuals in the problem group stated to complete two therapy courses in a year. CONCLUSIONS: The use of anabolic steroids increases the lean muscular mass. The most relevant secondary effects included: increased transaminase serum levels, change in the lipid profile and suppression of the hypothalamus-pituitary gland-gonad axis. The inclusion of testosterone did not increase the lean muscular mass.
 
Hmmm, not sure how the researchers arrived at that conclusion. The athletes must have been doing pretty strange cycles for test not to have an effect! In most cycles test will be the most powerfull drug of the stack, so of course it will make a difference IMO.
 
"CONCLUSIONS: The use of anabolic steroids increases the lean muscular mass"...hmmm...the first line of the summary says the use of anabolic steriods increases mass.  Then the last sentence says the opposite with "The inclusion of testosterone did not increase the lean muscular mass." ....is there something missing?  This doesn't make sense at all to me.  It also says "arm muscular section (98.8 vs 103.7 cm2, p < 0.001)" which to me translates that the average gain in arm measurements was almost 5cm in 6weeks!!!  Sounds like solid gains to me...  Am I reading this wrong?  Sounds to me like it's saying test DOES add muscle mass.  There are certainly enough studies out there to prove that.
 
The way I read it BSBW was that the "addition" of Test to an AAS stack made no difference in lean body mass gains. Synthetic androgens accounted for the lean muscle gains seen in the 43 measured cycles.Free testosterone levels were also unchanged,only the total(free+protein bound) test levels went up when Test was added.

Another way to interpret would be for lean muscle mass gains,base your stack on synthetic androgens and add only enough Test to compensate for HPTA suppression. They found no evidence that megadose Test had any benifit to the stack over and above that.
 
...my dick tells me it is worth a shit and 9 times out of 10 i listen to my dick... ???...lol...good read tho deca...interesting...
 
<!--QuoteBegin--Presser+May 14 2002,11:41--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Presser @ May 14 2002,11:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->SO WHAT DOES IT USUALY SAY BRO?[/quote]
..."do it"... ;)...
 
<!--QuoteBegin--sully+May 15 2002,04:50--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sully @ May 15 2002,04:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Presser+May 14 2002,11:41--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Presser @ May 14 2002,11:41)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->SO WHAT DOES IT USUALY SAY BRO?[/quote]
..."do it"... ;)...[/quote]
LOL,this was just the kind of academic discussion I was hoping for sully......penile linguistics...... ???  :D
 
... <!--emo&+=--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='+='><!--endemo-->...i know, i m sorry, so continue with discussing cycles where your dick points down all the time...mine will continue in an upward fashion...lol... ???
 
<!--QuoteBegin--sully+May 15 2002,07:03--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (sully @ May 15 2002,07:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->... <!--emo&+=--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sarcasm.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='+='><!--endemo-->...i know, i m sorry, so continue with discussing cycles where your dick points down all the time...mine will continue in an upward fashion...lol... ???[/quote]
That's actually a good point sully. What I'm thinking is uping the dose and mix of synthetic androgens in a cycle but keeping the Test at a more resonable,HPTA replacement level(enough to keep my dick pointing north) might be the best way to grow....not totally eliminating Test from a cycle...
The finding just seems counterintuative,I'd actually like to see sample cycles of what these guys were doing.
 
wonder what the synthetic effect was as far as gyno, if any?  also dont believe 5cm increase in arms over a 6 week period.........2.54cm/in means they put on 2 inches on their arms??????
 
The test we buy IS a synthetic androgen, is it not?  That's what's not making sense.  The title is "Synthetic AAS (Anabolic-Androgenic Steriods) increase lean muscle mass".  As far as I know, test IS a synthetic AAS, being an androgenic steriod.  WTF?  I mean, it doesn't mention anything specific in the abstract about synthetic anabolics like deca or EQ as a baseline.
 
<!--QuoteBegin--GrowinMuscle+May 15 2002,8:13--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (GrowinMuscle @ May 15 2002,8:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->wonder what the synthetic effect was as far as gyno, if any?  also dont believe 5cm increase in arms over a 6 week period.........2.54cm/in means they put on 2 inches on their arms??????[/quote]
it's a cross-sectional measurement so it's in squared centimeters,it's not talking circumference(that would be some great gains if it was :) )
 
<!--QuoteBegin--BStrongBwell+May 15 2002,10:02--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (BStrongBwell @ May 15 2002,10:02)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><!--QuoteEBegin-->The test we buy IS a synthetic androgen, is it not?  That's what's not making sense.  The title is "Synthetic AAS (Anabolic-Androgenic Steriods) increase lean muscle mass".  As far as I know, test IS a synthetic AAS, being an androgenic steriod.  WTF?  I mean, it doesn't mention anything specific in the abstract about synthetic anabolics like deca or EQ as a baseline.[/quote]
Test even tho it is manufactured,is not counted as a synthetic as it also occurs naturally. Their refering to Deca/EQ/Tren etc.
 
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