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mr456
05-24-2002, 11:27 AM
mr456

Member

Posts: 869
Joined: June 2001
Posted: May 22 2002,5:40

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As many of you may or may not know I have Chrohns Disease with is an intestinal disease for which there is no cure. I have a pretty fair amount of it in my small intestine and have had ZERO problems in the last 2-3 years since my diet and training has taken over my life- .
I just recently had a flare -up about 2-3 weeks ago (someof you may have read that post) and started taking Prednisone at 5mg a day. Well that wasn't doing the trick so I have ended up at 20 mg a day. I am also shooting approximately 50-75mg of Prop EOD to try to keep my gains.
The crazy part is...I have had NO weight gain (which Prednisone is famous for) and actually LOOK leaner?? My training is pretty much back to normal...I am off the Tren and taking half or less of my Prop that I was on, still get incredible pumps and have noticed vascularity that I never had even while on Tren.
So I ask you guys WTF is goin on? Have I stumbled upon something here? You be the judge.....and a special thanks to DecaDent for shootin me some addy's and helpin me out with the problem a couple weeks back...I owe you one bro!

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" Yeah buddy"

.....Ronnie Coleman

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BStrongBwell

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Posts: 1687
Joined: July 2001
Posted: May 23 2002,1:31

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hmmm...I'm taking a nasal inhaled corticosteroid too... I thought they affected different types of tissue. Although there is definitely a rise in metabolism, that's for sure! Maybe the metabolic boost is helping convert fat to energy, thus the leaning affect, and might be elevating blood pressure, thus the vascularity.

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BStrongBWell
BStrong-BWell@ziplip.com
FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY.

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superchicken



Posts: 27
Joined: Mar. 2002
Posted: May 24 2002,10:46

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above are good hypothesis. maybe less water also?

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2 replies since May 22 2002,5:40 < Next Oldest | Next Newest

DecaDent*
05-24-2002, 12:54 PM
Glad to hear things are going well for you mr456,despite the recent flare. I had a couple of other thoughts as to what your seeing. The effects of prednisone/cortisol on fat distribution are to centralize it. In a nonBB this results in a fat trunk/neck but skinny arms/legs. Your increased vascularity maybe due in part to less subQ fat in the extremities.BSBW also made a good point about blood pressure.....an electrolyte shift and fluid retention are common with prednisone as well.
The other thing that is probably occuring is a competition for the gluciocorticod receptor site(GcR). The prop test is competing with the pred in different tissues. The affinity for the receptor site will also vary tissue to tissue. This may also account for your needed increase in the dose of Pred from 5 to 20.
I was on pred. for a ruptured disc when I was off cycle and had much more sides from the pred. A few years later I needed pred. again for a disc problem and the same dose was like hardly taking anything. I think the GcR sites were all bound up with deca and test :D.
Glad all your sides so far have been good ones bro!

DecaDent*
05-24-2002, 04:16 PM
I was going to PM you this but it was to long so I thought I'd just post it here.

The present studies were designed to determine whether recombinant human growth hormone (rhGH) can counteract some of the catabolic effects of glucocorticosteroid therapy in children chronically treated with glucocorticosteroids. Whether rhGH can safely improve short-term linear growth was also investigated. The effect of rhGH on disease activity was also assessed. Ten children (6 boys, 4 girls) with inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) on oral prednisone for at least 4 months prior to these studies were recruited (mean ± SE, 11.9 ± 0.9 years). Leucine and glucose isotope studies, body composition, substrate oxidation and energy expenditure rates, and growth factors were measured at baseline (D1) and at 4 months after treatment with rhGH (0.05 mg/ kg · d subcutaneously [SC]) while continuing oral prednisone. Dual-emission x-ray absorptiometry (DEXA) and calcium kinetic analysis (42Ca/46Ca) were performed also. rhGH was continued for 6 months to assess linear growth in all 10 subjects, 7 of whom continued rhGH for 12 months. Body composition changed favorably with increased fat free mass (+3 kg, P =.001) and decreased percent fat mass (–3.5%, P = .001) after 4 months of treatment. Rates of whole body protein turnover, oxidation, and synthesis remained invariant, with no changes in substrate oxidation or resting energy expenditure rates. Linear growth velocity increased from 3.5 ± 0.4 cm/yr when the patients were treated with prednisone only, to 7.7 ± 0.9 after 6 months of combined prednisone/rhGH (P = .001). The growth velocity was sustained in the 7 patients treated with rhGH for 12 months. Plasma insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) concentrations also increased significantly while on rhGH treatment. No changes in calcium absorption were observed but there was a significant increase in kinetic rates of bone calcium accretion (P = .045) as well as in bone-specific alkaline phosphatase concentrations, a measure of bone formation (P = .03). Fasting and 2-hour postprandial glucose concentrations, fasting insulin levels, and HbA1C were invariant during combined rhGH/prednisone treatment. The Crohn's disease activity score was unchanged with rhGH therapy. In summary, rhGH treatment of corticosteroid-dependent patients with IBD was associated with positive changes in body composition, bone metabolism, and linear growth, without deterioration of carbohydrate tolerance or intermediate metabolism of substrates. We conclude that treatment with rhGH has beneficial effects in prednisone-dependent growing children. Larger studies will be needed to assess the long-term safety and efficacy of this approach.
Copyright © 2002 by W.B. Saunders Company

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From Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, FL; Nemours Children's Clinic, Orlando, FL; and The Children's Nutrition Center, Houston, TX.

mr456
05-25-2002, 12:29 AM
some competition going on at the receptor sites. Upped the Pred to 30mg a day and the Prop to 75mg EOD. Some days i feel real good like today...but soem days my stomach hurts like a mofo and I have no energy. Oh well..as long as I am getting better i guess.

NAPALM1
05-25-2002, 01:54 AM
I don't know about all the receptor science in it all, but I do know I took prednisone for 14 days and lost 10 Lbs while I was off cycle. It did what it was supposed to do, but I hated loosing the weight. When my Dr prescribed it he told me not to be using any AAS while I was taking it though. And that the AAS could make the prednisone less effective. Glad to hear your doing well bro. Later

mr456
05-25-2002, 04:27 PM
yeah...I checked my BF% yesterday and it was around 12.7-14%..which is REALLY good for me(more like unheard of). I keep upping the prednisone.(30mg a day for now)...and am just keeping the Prop the same now at 75EOD. I want the Pred to be effective but I also want to stay away from catabolism occuring. It seems to be happening at an extremely rapid rate....leaning up I mean. I am leaning up on Pred and Prop faster than I did when I was on Tren/T-3/prop on a restricted diet. My diet now is not near as good and I am cutting like crazy!!!
I have stumbled on to a new medical breakthru...don't worry..I'll give MC a cut:D .............456