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SAMSONN
08-09-2002, 08:30 PM
tried to do a search on this, but it's not working. anyone know where I can find some info on it.

basskiller
08-09-2002, 08:42 PM
read the bottom half



Clomid and HCG
By Nick and Bigfella - MuscleTalk.co.uk moderators

Nick can be contacted through the Muscletalk forum for any questions or comments.



One of the most frequently asked questions on Muscle Talk is how to use Clomid and HCG correctly.

basskiller
08-09-2002, 08:42 PM
Using HCG
It is our opinion that HCG is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused compounds in bodybuilding. Hopefully this information will go some way towards rectifying that for the members of MuscleTalk. HCG stands for Human Chorionic Gonadotrophin and is not a steroid, but a natural peptide hormone which develops in the placenta of pregnant women during pregnancy to controls the mother's hormones. (Incidentally, this is the reason you may hear of people testing for growth hormone (HGH) with a pregnancy testing kit - If their HGH shows 'pregnant', they've been ripped-off with cheaper HCG - but we digress slightly).

Its action in the male body is like that of LH, stimulating the Leydig cells in the testes to produce testosterone even in the absence of endogenous LH. HCG is therefore used during longer or heavier steroid cycles to maintain testicular size and condition, or to bring atrophied (shrunken) testicles back up to their original condition in preparation for post-cycle Clomid therapy. This process is necessary because atrophied testicles produce reduced levels of natural testosterone, this situation should be rectified prior to post-cycle Clomid therapy.

HCG administration post-cycle is common practice among bodybuilders in the belief that it will aid the natural testosterone recovery, but this theory is unfounded and also counterproductive. The rapid rise in both testosterone, and thus oestrogen due to aromatisation, from the administration of HCG causes further inhibition of the HPTA (Hypothalamic/Pituitary/Testicular Axis - feedback loop discussed above); this actually worsens the recovery situation. HCG does not restore the natural testosterone production.

The typically observed dosing of 2000 to 5000IU every 4 to 5 days causes such an increase in oestrogen levels via aromatisation of the natural testosterone that this has been responsible for many cases of gynecomastia.

From the above discussion it is clear that HCG is best used during a cycle, either to:

1) Avoid testicular atrophy, or
2) Rectify the problem of an existing testicular atrophy.

Doses of HCG
Smaller doses, more frequently during a cycle will give best overall results with least unwanted side effects. Somewhere between 500iu and 1000iu per day would be best over about a two-week period. These doses are sufficient to avoid/rectify testicular atrophy without increasing oestrogen levels too dramatically and risking gynecomastia. This dosing schedule also avoids the risk of permanently down-regulating the LH receptors in the testes.

Presentation and Administration of HCG
Synthetic HCG is often known as Pregnyl (generic name) and is available in 2500iu and 5000iu (not ideal for the above doses!). Administration of the compound is either by intra-muscular or subcutaneous injection. It comes as a powder which needs to be mixed with the sterile water. The powder is temperature-sensitive prior to mixing and should not be exposed to direct heat. After mixing, it should be kept refrigerated and used within a few weeks - though there are sterility issues which need to be considered after mixing.

Summary and Price of Clomid and HCG
Clomid is more effective than HCG post cycle, but some long-term users like to use HCG during a cycle, or to prepare the testes for Clomid therapy.

Clomid is available in 50mg tablets most commonly, but also comes in 25mg capsules. 10 x 50mg tablets should be anywhere from £10-20; $10 - $20.00. HCG prices range from £15-£25 per 3 ampoules.

Check out their forum at http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/

SAMSONN
08-09-2002, 08:51 PM
thanks basskiller, good info.
I'm thinking of running a cycle like this
weeks 1 to 10 600mg test
weeks 1 to 10 600mg deca
weeks 1 to 4 35-50mg dbol
weeks 11 to 13 100mg prop and 100mg fina eod
clomid starts two days after last shot,
but which week do I throw in hcg

basskiller
08-09-2002, 09:03 PM
Mid way through your cycle. 5 6 7 remember to run either clomid or nolva along side of the HCG

rooster1
08-09-2002, 11:33 PM
bump it

cybersteffan
08-10-2002, 11:49 AM
bump for a good post

basskiller
08-10-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Chemical Evolution


Deca and Fina :eek: are you looking to grow tits Bro?
Thats like a major no no!


True, Even though you done with it in the 10th week, it will be in your system up until the 13th.

If you do decide to run the fina, what for the gyno signs very carefully

SAMSONN
08-10-2002, 03:00 PM
Thanks for looking out guys, but I guess I'm one of those lucky few thats never had to use nolvadex. I keep it on hand just in case, I know it won't help with progesterone but I've never even gotten an itchy nipple before. I'll let you know how it turns out, I'll keep a close eye on it

superchicken
08-10-2002, 03:02 PM
check the articles of intrest forum, theres a good hcg post in there :)