bulking cutting steroid cycle


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    I am sorry lol. I thought this was thread. Your cycle looks good I would adjust pct as stated the read above is hcg protocol and I only have used letro as ai.
    Aromasin alot of guys run 12.5 eod maybe start with half of that. U would get better response if u started a thread

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    MuscleMechanic, thanks a lot for your comments! Much appreciated! So anyways:

    1. I agree with you: Aromasin is a suicidal AI, and since it takes time (typically up to 3 days) for your cells to synthesize new enzyme, despite its short t(1/2) 25mg EOD should actually work.
    2. True, there are more posts on HCG, but they also offer different protocols for HGC, so building on a previous post, and if I get your suggestions right I should change my protocol as follows:

    Week Dianabol TestE Nolva Clomid Aromasin HCG
    1 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    2 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    3 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    4 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    5 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    6 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    7 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    8 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    9 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    10 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    11 ---- ---- ---- ---- 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    12 ---- ---- ---- ---- 25mg EOD 500 iu/week
    13 40 mg/day 100 mg/day
    14 40 mg/day 100 mg/day
    15 20mg/day 50 mg/day
    16 20mg/day 50 mg/day
    How does it look to you now? Any more comments/suggestions?

    Again thanks a lot for taking the time to review!
    Last edited by chemist_78; 02-12-2017 at 04:15 AM. Reason: Typo in the table
     

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    Sorry, I had missed your last answer before I replied to your post! :-D
    However I was mainly unsure on what to do with HCG, this is why I did not start a thread, as I had the feeling there was some specific knowledge here on how to run the protocol.
    OK got your suggestion on Aromasin. I know most people will run letrozole or anastrozole, I am just afraid of the effects on plasma lipids on the one hand, and on the other on oestrogen rebound (from aromatase sudden activation after cutting the AI). But I recognise there is merit to your approach! So again many thanks. Obviously any suggestion on how to optimise before starting is welcome and appreciated.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by chemist_78 View Post
    Sorry, I had missed your last answer before I replied to your post! :-D
    However I was mainly unsure on what to do with HCG, this is why I did not start a thread, as I had the feeling there was some specific knowledge here on how to run the protocol.
    OK got your suggestion on Aromasin. I know most people will run letrozole or anastrozole, I am just afraid of the effects on plasma lipids on the one hand, and on the other on oestrogen rebound (from aromatase sudden activation after cutting the AI). But I recognise there is merit to your approach! So again many thanks. Obviously any suggestion on how to optimise before starting is welcome and appreciated.
    I have used letro for years. My lipids always been good. Aromasin affects lipids the same and do does adex. They are compared mg to mg and total ability to knock estro down.
    Having estro lower is what causes lipids to be bad or too bad.
    They all the same some easy to find sweet spot than others. The trick is just enough but not too much so u may wanna start Aromasin lower.
    It only should be upped if necessary.
    Hcg do not run last 2 weeks while letting ester clear. U want Lh and FH signals until suppressed during pct which hcg does

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muscle mechanic View Post
    I have used letro for years. My lipids always been good. Aromasin affects lipids the same and do does adex. They are compared mg to mg and total ability to knock estro down.
    Having estro lower is what causes lipids to be bad or too bad.
    They all the same some easy to find sweet spot than others. The trick is just enough but not too much so u may wanna start Aromasin lower.
    It only should be upped if necessary.
    Hcg do not run last 2 weeks while letting ester clear. U want Lh and FH signals until suppressed during pct which hcg does

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    My auto spell been acting up. Hcg will suppress FH & LH signals and u do not want that going into pct. So hcg should be stopped 2 weeks before pct.
    I will look for a good protocol for u. I will be honest I never have used hcg.
    Hcg can cause estro that even an ai can't control.
    If it were me I would consider using it risky.
    If u only doing a cycle I believe u will be fine without but I am pretty sure that 500 a week or twice a week maybe 250 twice that is what I need to confirm.
    I will ask someone experiences with hcg or ask them to chime in. By this afternoon u will have your answer.
    On AI use its not that some or worse on lipids than others, it's that the lower u put your estro on any with be bad for lipids.
    Letro has ability to lower it the most, then adex, then Aromasin.
    Aromasin only differs by suicide completely deactivating aromatase enzymes bound to.
    Other two(adex letro), the enzymes they bound to can become active again if half life of adex or letro runs too low before those enzyme are metabolized. After aromatasing steroids are discontinued for all ai's the result will be same except timing to stop other two should be enough to enzymes bound to, to be metabolized. We talking days.
    Or with other two they sound be dosed often enough but not to high of dose too often.
    Aromasin easier to adjust without crashing.

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    Default HCG Question

    I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.

    Weeks:

    1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
    250IU / HCG / E3D
    14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
    14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
    16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily

    I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfirestopper View Post
    I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.

    Weeks:

    1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
    250IU / HCG / E3D
    14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
    14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
    16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily

    I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?
    I am not a hcg pro. Lol!
    I never used it but I have read enough.
    U are on test c or e u wanna first use it 2x per week.
    Ex 250 Monday 250 Thursday
    It will take a bit to have shut down on long esters so u wanna use it at that point when shit down occurs.
    Use it 250 iu 2x a week
    Use it only to keep boys working.
    Then don't use 2-3 weeks before pct.
    Good luck brother. Hitting sack! It's late

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muscle mechanic View Post
    I am not a hcg pro. Lol!
    I never used it but I have read enough.
    U are on test c or e u wanna first use it 2x per week.
    Ex 250 Monday 250 Thursday
    It will take a bit to have shut down on long esters so u wanna use it at that point when shit down occurs.
    Use it 250 iu 2x a week
    Use it only to keep boys working.
    Then don't use 2-3 weeks before pct.
    Good luck brother. Hitting sack! It's late

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    Use your test c or e 2x wk.
    Not once peaks and Valleys from unstable levels will create estro
    And hcg use 2x week as well around 6 weeks u can use and stop 2-3 weeks before pct.
    That is what I believe is best protocol with creating extra estro from testosterone highs and lows especially with hcg
    And without causing suppression going into pct or during.
    Hcg is a false suppressive negative feedback creating signal so pct to use will make u think u good but it will be false kind of like doing test in pct.
    One is given testosterone balls don't have to make so they stop and other is false signal to make balls work that is suppressive.
    Nolva and clomid won't do this by hcg will so don't use it in pct or before 3 weeks!

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    Can anyone help me with the Nolvadex, Clomide and HCG. And how to use it and should I use it?
    Do I need AI stuf like Arimidex or Aromasine for this cycle?
    I heard if I will have problem with gyno during cycle to take 10-20mg of Nolva to reduce estrogen?
    I read alot and a lot of people say that HCG is not needed for this kind of a cycle, but to take Nolva and Clomide 2 weeks after cycle to bring LH and FSH(40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50).
    And then I will take Maca powder,Tribulus, DAA and Zinc. To bring up my natural test to max.

    I will use Test E. 1cc/250mg E5D (1-10 weeks) and Turinabol 40mg ED(1-4 weeks)

    Q: Is this your first cycle?
    A: Yes, it is.
    Q: Are you aware of the stuff that can go wrong?
    A: Yes I am and I want to prevent them.

    Thx alot.
    Cheers
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    Question: Can you take HCG alone to raise T levels and if so would the T level raise high enough to have to take an aromatizer?
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    yes and no
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    Quote Originally Posted by peanutbarnes View Post
    Question: Can you take HCG alone to raise T levels and if so would the T level raise high enough to have to take an aromatizer?
    It is a false signal and can and will create negive feed back!!!

    Clomid can be used for that.

    Hcg just to keep battery from losing charge completely when runningon gas.
    Like an alternator that just keeps things from totally dying.

    It can wake up something not working in long time but the things I mentioned and to verify if HTPA verification of working.
    Those are my options on studies I read.
    It's best use is during long cycle to keep truck in shed protect it some!!!



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    I got caught w my pants down recently, me and a buddy got ripped off leaving me to cold turkey, been off everything without PCT for 4 wks now, surprisingly have maintained almost everything except my desire to train hard, but will have gear coming in a wk or two.

    The lesson here is have PCT on hand at all times, you never know when you will have to use it!
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    ok, i didnt read the article or all the comments, so Im just gonna throw in my two cents on HCG. I see no point to run it during a cycle, and would use it post cycle only. Basically, wait one week after your last dose/shot and then I would do two weeks of clomid, and then would do two weeks of HCG, and that will do it. Keep it simple guys.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuknuk View Post
    ok, i didnt read the article or all the comments, so Im just gonna throw in my two cents on HCG. I see no point to run it during a cycle, and would use it post cycle only. Basically, wait one week after your last dose/shot and then I would do two weeks of clomid, and then would do two weeks of HCG, and that will do it. Keep it simple guys.
    It doesn't work that way, new studies confirmed it ups your test but is suppressive in its self so further evidence proved it only should be run with TRT to keep function or on cycle so u not completely shut down with testes not functioning at all.
    Mean in cycle it's like oxygen mask helping them breathe

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    Yeah, I posted those studies around here some place, and I was always against HCG during steroid cycle, and thought it was a waste of time. I preached that here for many many years, until reading the newest studies, and one article in particular and its pretty conclusive, that is by far most beneficial to take it alongside your steroid cycle and not just intermittent shots during post cycle.

    Of course , many bodybuilders have taken it at the end during their post steroid cycle therapy and it worked well for them, but the articles and studies out now show conclusive evidence that taking HCG during steroid or hormone treatment / cycles will aid in your ability to bounce back naturally much much MUCH faster, and more importantly bounce back more COMPLETELY!

    As when taking these hormones without being accompanied by H.C.G. and only using it at the end, your losing your ability to charge back up fully so to speak when it comes to natty testosterone and such.

    Let me see, for the newbies, with whom im likely not explaining this to well for, and NukNuk, I know you understand what im saying right? if not and for the rest of the community it goes like this:

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid cycle without running HCG with it, and only at the end, will only be able to charge back up maxed out at 75% of its initial capacity!

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid/hormone cycle accompanies by HCG throughout cycle, at the end of cycle will be able to charge back up to damn Near 100%


    Anyhow, we now a Have Testosterone Replacement Doctor Who has his own forum here for public and private questions, we should se what he thinks about this?

    However, I am going by the recent studies , and if theyre true, and precise, and I have zero reason to believe otherwise, then yeah, I have changed my opinion on this issue, and Opinion I once held for many many years and felt strongly about.

    Anyhow, great thread here!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Presser View Post
    Yeah, I posted those studies around here some place, and I was always against HCG during steroid cycle, and thought it was a waste of time. I preached that here for many many years, until reading the newest studies, and one article in particular and its pretty conclusive, that is by far most beneficial to take it alongside your steroid cycle and not just intermittent shots during post cycle.

    Of course , many bodybuilders have taken it at the end during their post steroid cycle therapy and it worked well for them, but the articles and studies out now show conclusive evidence that taking HCG during steroid or hormone treatment / cycles will aid in your ability to bounce back naturally much much MUCH faster, and more importantly bounce back more COMPLETELY!

    As when taking these hormones without being accompanied by H.C.G. and only using it at the end, your losing your ability to charge back up fully so to speak when it comes to natty testosterone and such.

    Let me see, for the newbies, with whom im likely not explaining this to well for, and NukNuk, I know you understand what im saying right? if not and for the rest of the community it goes like this:

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid cycle without running HCG with it, and only at the end, will only be able to charge back up maxed out at 75% of its initial capacity!

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid/hormone cycle accompanies by HCG throughout cycle, at the end of cycle will be able to charge back up to damn Near 100%


    Anyhow, we now a Have Testosterone Replacement Doctor Who has his own forum here for public and private questions, we should se what he thinks about this?

    However, I am going by the recent studies , and if theyre true, and precise, and I have zero reason to believe otherwise, then yeah, I have changed my opinion on this issue, and Opinion I once held for many many years and felt strongly about.

    Anyhow, great thread here!
    It's your thread study I read myself and investigated myself and that's where I got my opinion too.
    I now only recommend this approach

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muscle mechanic View Post
    It's your thread study I read myself and investigated myself and that's where I got my opinion too.
    I now only recommend this approach

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    Quote Originally Posted by Presser View Post
    Yeah, I posted those studies around here some place, and I was always against HCG during steroid cycle, and thought it was a waste of time. I preached that here for many many years, until reading the newest studies, and one article in particular and its pretty conclusive, that is by far most beneficial to take it alongside your steroid cycle and not just intermittent shots during post cycle.

    Of course , many bodybuilders have taken it at the end during their post steroid cycle therapy and it worked well for them, but the articles and studies out now show conclusive evidence that taking HCG during steroid or hormone treatment / cycles will aid in your ability to bounce back naturally much much MUCH faster, and more importantly bounce back more COMPLETELY!

    As when taking these hormones without being accompanied by H.C.G. and only using it at the end, your losing your ability to charge back up fully so to speak when it comes to natty testosterone and such.

    Let me see, for the newbies, with whom im likely not explaining this to well for, and NukNuk, I know you understand what im saying right? if not and for the rest of the community it goes like this:

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid cycle without running HCG with it, and only at the end, will only be able to charge back up maxed out at 75% of its initial capacity!

    Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid/hormone cycle accompanies by HCG throughout cycle, at the end of cycle will be able to charge back up to damn Near 100%


    Anyhow, we now a Have Testosterone Replacement Doctor Who has his own forum here for public and private questions, we should se what he thinks about this?

    However, I am going by the recent studies , and if theyre true, and precise, and I have zero reason to believe otherwise, then yeah, I have changed my opinion on this issue, and Opinion I once held for many many years and felt strongly about.

    Anyhow, great thread here!



    great info. I am very new to this and didn't start here so I've seen a lot of information that doesn't match in other areas. Seems you guys have more info than my doctor. My question is this. I'm on test c. started out on a HCG by itself for a month or so. It was great at first but then the effects left at a couple weeks. This makes sense based on your info. I was then switched to Test Cyp. 100mg 2x/ week. I've been on this for 11 weeks now and I would like to stop. Do I need to do PCT for such a small dose? I have a new vial of HCG. I was told to stay on HCG 500iu daily during my test therapy. This seems like a lot of HCG based on what I've read. I stopped HCG a couple weeks ago after seeing another article.Thanks so much!
    Last edited by Heyheyhey; 08-29-2017 at 05:09 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyheyhey View Post
    great info. I am very new to this and didn't start here so I've seen a lot of information that doesn't match in other areas. Seems you guys have more info than my doctor. My question is this. I'm on test c. started out on a HCG by itself for a month or so. It was great at first but then the effects left at a couple weeks. This makes sense based on your info. I was then switched to Test Cyp. 100mg 2x/ week. I've been on this for 11 weeks now and I would like to stop. Do I need to do PCT for such a small dose? I have a new vial of HCG. I was told to stay on HCG 500iu daily during my test therapy. This seems like a lot of HCG based on what I've read. I stopped HCG a couple weeks ago after seeing another article.Thanks so much!
    Did you start a new thread asking this question? When asking at the end of larger postings new questions sometimes get overlooked.

    I would say you should have stayed on the hcg during cypionate injections.

    If you have not already done so, you should check out entourage hormones forum here. trtdoc is who runs it. he can steer you in the proper direction being TRT and hcg is his specialty
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildfirestopper View Post
    I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.

    Weeks:

    1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
    250IU / HCG / E3D
    14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
    14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
    16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily

    I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?

    I know it's old post but for newbies I'll say hcg throughout cycle is best

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