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Thread: Hammer curl ,vs, Reverse Curl

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    Default Hammer curl ,vs, Reverse Curl



    How do you feel about the two?

    what are the difference , etc.

    I was looking on exrx.net and the only muscle use difference I can find is that the carpi radialis's on both the flexor and extensors.

    Which so only forearm muscles , which can be worked doing wrist movements. Even though not very compound for wrists it allows you focus more on the muscles needing to be worked without having extra bicep exercises.

    Because from what im seeing and have looked at the brachialis isnt doesnt get worked any different from these movements. So the other head of the bicep is only isolated and worked other in other ways , by disengaging the brachii. Not affected at all from hand position.

    Which all the grip change does is give a better way to work certain muscles of the forearm.

    Just some stuff on larry scott I have been watching and wanting to talk about.
    Last edited by Chris-Winfield; 07-09-2009 at 09:27 PM.

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    well i started to reverse curls not to long ago and i like them gives the biceps and the forarms a nice pump as well as hammer curls, the difference is they both hit different parts of the biceps,

    I would have to say hammer curls will mostly likely add more mass

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    I always thought there was only 2 heads of the bicep?

    the bicep brachii , and the brachialis

    Where the brachialis since it was an under brachii muscle from growth pushed up on the brachii creating more peak. and the bicep brachii , was just the overall size and shape look , with genetics thrown into the mix also.

    With hammer curls the brachii isnt fully contracted how would it give more mass?

    Im just looking to expand on knowledge , nothing is say is to question or doubt anything anybody says. Just feel like bringing truth , facts and opinions , and misconceptions to the table so I can find out the truth , and throwout any false information I might have.
    Last edited by Chris-Winfield; 07-09-2009 at 09:50 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-Winfield View Post
    I always thought there was only 2 heads of the bicep?

    the bicep brachii , and the brachialis
    true, but the same could be said for the upper chest.

    of course barbell incline movement will hit the upper chest, but their is also other incline movements that will hit different parts of that upper chest as well that the barbell might not hit


    do u understand?

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    I understand what your saying but... wouldnt this apply--
    ----------------------------

    Well the chest muscle even though its working with a ball joint connected leverage. Its still working the same way.. pulling of fibers , changing the angle will stretch the fibers more giving a better stimulation. But the overall stimulation will be the same if its working the same muscle..

    like closing a door straight , it works by bending the hinge , now add weight down and close.. it still closes by bending at the hinge but put stress on it.

    now in body terms the hinge being the hingejoint , and door doing the movement of the muscle , regardless of arm position on a lift to engage the chest it has to go through movement.

    changing the leverage of the hinge , or angle being worked , theres only a given movement that the muscle work with. so they wont work any other way..

    either better exercise for a certain muscle , by either stimulation or compoundness. or ratio from upper to middle chest. But wont workout like the chest fibers on the inner , vs the outer.

    Since fiber being stretch will damage on the weakest point , and be repaired , changing angle wont make a different except for at the hinge / joint connective tissue or close to it due to stress at a unnatural angle.

    While changing of exercises to a less natural angle will just damage the fibers at a different point than natural but with joint damage along with it. you can strengthen the strongest part of the muscle fiber due to angular "sheering" but not of full on stretching because it will stretch through the rest of the fibers also with a normal stretch , but not with a leverage disadvantaged lift

    Which would create disembalance on strengths of one area of a lift compared to another , without the energy use , fatigue throw into the equation. ........

    lower or greater range of motion lifts , using different muscle during different phases of the lift , with mechanically less or better leverage. Affecting which areas of connective tissues your targeting on whichever muscle group.

    Your still working overall fibers , unless your at a disadvantage which would actually be a bad thing unless your only training to strength the tendon more than the other muscles , but to do so with wrong natural mechanics would put at a high risk of injury due to sheering.
    Last edited by Chris-Winfield; 07-09-2009 at 10:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris-Winfield View Post
    I understand what your saying but... wouldnt this apply--
    ----------------------------

    Well the chest muscle even though its working with a ball joint connected leverage. Its still working the same way.. pulling of fibers , changing the angle will stretch the fibers more giving a better stimulation. But the overall stimulation will be the same if its working the same muscle..

    like closing a door straight , it works by bending the hinge , now add weight down and close.. it still closes by bending at the hinge but put stress on it.

    now in body terms the hinge being the hingejoint , and door doing the movement of the muscle , regardless of arm position on a lift to engage the chest it has to go through movement.

    changing the leverage of the hinge , or angle being worked , theres only a given movement that the muscle work with. so they wont work any other way..

    either better exercise for a certain muscle , by either stimulation or compoundness. or ratio from upper to middle chest. But wont workout like the chest fibers on the inner , vs the outer.

    Since fiber being stretch will damage on the weakest point , and be repaired , changing angle wont make a different except for at the hinge / joint connective tissue or close to it due to stress at a unnatural angle.

    While changing of exercises to a less natural angle will just damage the fibers at a different point than natural but with joint damage along with it. you can strengthen the strongest part of the muscle fiber due to angular "sheering" but not of full on stretching because it will stretch through the rest of the fibers also with a normal stretch , but not with a leverage disadvantaged lift

    Which would create disembalance on strengths of one area of a lift compared to another , without the energy use , fatigue throw into the equation. ........

    lower or greater range of motion lifts , using different muscle during different phases of the lift , with mechanically less or better leverage. Affecting which areas of connective tissues your targeting on whichever muscle group.

    Your still working overall fibers , unless your at a disadvantage which would actually be a bad thing unless your only training to strength the tendon more than the other muscles , but to do so with wrong natural mechanics would put at a high risk of injury due to sheering.
    i dont get it lol

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    muscles only work by pulling , so since the muscles only pull and are on a hinge or ball joint , regardless the allow specific movements , as to make the fiber pulling useful. Without the joint then the contraction movement would be like a rubberband it would pull in to how it needs to but would flow along the way.

    So since we have joints and muscles for specific tasks where the muscles changing the angle wont affect anything except for sheering stress on the connective tissue , or stress on the joint.

    say you have a steel cable and you pull it , the stress is going through the entire cable , if you make the cable pull instead of straight out stretching , you pull it around a bend it distributes more of that stress to where the bend is , which is where your actual joint would be , means changing the actual exercise as long as your still working the same muscle and some of the energy being used isnt transfered more to a different muscle group.

    Then your theres no difference between a straight pull on a steel cable , vs an angular pull around a corner or a pulley on a steel cable other than the actual stress on the joint and connective tissue.

    Basically what im trying to say , is say a benchpress vs a chest fly , they both work the chest , but if you got the same angle where your working just middle chest , not upperchest... so the ratio of muscle involvement is the same.

    Then the only difference in the lifts is compoundness , and leverage.

    To where you have different types of muscle fibers , your body is going to naturally choose for the task based on weight , and endurance efficiencies what to use. Changing the angle and leverage as long as the overall ending weight on the muscle is the same , there will be no difference in area of the chest being worked.

    if just middle chest is worked , you cant involve an inner or outer portion of muscle on a chest , by changing the exercise thats targeting that middle chest muscle. Only changing reps and weight will allow different stimulation in that target muscle

    ---------------------

    The only thing that changes from exercise to exercise from specific muscle groups is leverage , and stress.. making you either have to use more of less weight to stimulate the muscles for the rep range you need.

    Along with compoundness for hormone release and time saving. So if you stretch a steel cable you cant make the weakest part not fail before the strongest part. to where the strongest part is repaired by the body , and the weakest part isnt damaged.

    your body will naturally level itself out if you work all the muscles you need to work. because the weakest fiber will fail first , you cant target different areas of the middle chest , or upper chest.

    because chest is comprised of just steel cables made of muscle , each seperated in their own areas as in upper , middle etc.. so the only change you can make is working upper , instead of middle.

    so im basically saying , hammer curl and reverse curl , the different on muscles being worked in only in the forearms , so as long as the weight is increased o the optimum amounts for exactly 8 reps which weight increases would have to do made due to mechanical advantage or disadvantages. The bicep muscle being worked , would still give out at the same time. IF the forearms could last to the point of stimulation needed.

    To back up my theory , im going to say if you did a normal curl , palm up , vs a curl with pull up but twisted as far outward as possible for a full contraction of the bicep ... but having your wrist turned to contract the bicep more , your allowing better mechanical advantage by being more compound having less work being done by the forearms , so your forearms wont give out as fast so more weight can be done with better gains on the biceps and less forearm work.

    Im speaking of curls without wrist bent back but held straight vs twisted for maximum bicep contraction.
    Last edited by Chris-Winfield; 07-09-2009 at 11:04 PM.

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    I know my explaination are probably too detailed to catch on....

    So , maybe sometime ill draw some picture and diagrams along with muscle examples to explain what im talking about.

    But So the Brachioradialis the best spot for stimulation is with a reverse curl grip , at the middle 3/5 of the curl.
    So basically all im saying is there is no difference in hammer curl vs reverse curl except for forearm work , being more ratio'd in bodily work % to certain muscles.

    Where you might be able to do say just normal curls to get best biceps as long as you also work your brachialis , but your forearms would be better built if you worked the different forearm angles to switch emphasis to one muscle to a different one.

    basically my intial post was me saying I thought hammer curls and reverse curls were for different parts of the biceps.. But from research and all my thoughts are not really.. Due to the fact that the only difference is forearms I never changed my initial thoughts after learning more about muscle anatomy.

    I overlooked the exercises , and the biggest use of changing position of the hands is for more forearm involvement and less bicep , since certain parts of the forearm can only be worked with those hand changes , and in certain degrees of the motion.

    Which I was asking about the difference between the two , because I feel hammer curls , due to muscles worked overall causes muscle imbalances which will lead to plateaus.... Are caused some by hammer curls... Since the hammer curls dont train of the forearm just the radialis's , which if you dont do other wrist work , from other exercises. That you can lead to imbalance that will transfer down to the point of a plateau down the line.

    Where.. if you had a routine that didnt do hammer curls but reverse curls intead , while using other staples it shows the hammer curl being a sort of inferior movement... even if that sounds harsh it leaves muscles unworked that arent worked with others , while the reverse curl fixes this problem......

    IE...

    curl , reverse curl , wrist curl , wrist reverse curl - those 4 work all heads of the forearms , and biceps.

    curl , hammer curl , wrist curl , wrist reverse curl - those 4 work all except... for it changes the ratios more to just the carpi radialis causes imbalances in both the flexion and the extension , since the hammercurl only works the radialis and not the total wrist , ALSO.. because the hammercurl , doesnt fulled work the brachiaradialis , just the carpi radialis's , leaving some muscles unworked , and some worked more than others.

    To where you would have to go through and more fine tune your workout with special exercises to emphasis corrections as you see them come in the mirror. You have less do worry about , with reverse curls , than hammer curls... in the long run , with reverse curls actually not leaving muscles unworked either.

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    Low detail summary of a picture to try to maybe get to what im trying to say / ask / debate about..

    [media]http://i25.tinypic.com/zsqxzp.jpg[/media]

    Ok if the side of the fiber or muscle that isnt stationary is connective tissue of the joint , and the circle represents angular pull on muscles which in MOST cases , the muscles are ment to pull straight without angles or bends.

    With a angled joint in some cases can cause bad mechanical advantage which will lead to imbalances in the muscle fibers which will lead to injury by tears. Either joint , strong part of the fiber , or weak part due to strong part being certain areas of the movement DEPENDING.. on if it is a strong angle pulley type movement.

    I can make an eleborate muscle drawing if need be. But working muscles in a different exercise makes no difference on the muscle , because your joints only work certain ways , the only difference exercise to exercise is multiple joint being added and multiple muscles.

    Now changing the exercises to a just as compound exercise , doesnt really help anything.. if its the same muscle configuration/ratios involved in the movement.

    But I feel from the muscles used in normal exercise circumstances , with the best way to fully activate the brachii head of the bicep , that the best counterpart of curl exercise is a reverse curl , since it works muscles more in a group of designed areas not just one aspect of the forearm like the hammercurl does. To where it wont create as much imbalance in the forearms to cause damage either in other exercises , the same exercise , daily activity.

    Things have to cancel each other out , so I just feel hammercurls is an exercise to be added in if you have lagging parts , not a normal staple of a workout due to the fact that making it a staple , will lead to more lagging parts than if you used it...

    I will explain this more in my opinion.. if asked for it.

    but my main thing about the picture , and pull/stretching of the muscles , was just to backup my reasoning for why i dont think hammercurls are good for mass on the biceps , their more of a forearm exercise.

    normal curls , target the bicep more , hammers are a blend of forearm and bicep , but mostly forearm , and reverse target more overall of the forearm.

    and that hammers will if done pretty regularly if not tended to correctly will lead to forearm problems either looks wise , joint wise , or muscle wise.

    The picture shows mechanical disadvantage , if the muscle shortens , its pulling on a whole area of fibers , but at a bend , placing stress on the apex of the bend which is closer to the connective tissue than I made in the picture. Because its pretty close to one in the same. Of if you changing the joint movement of an exercise to target individual fiber locations.

    This was just to backup , that changing in exercises do not make differences , but changes in stimulation... by either WEIGHT changes , or synergists changes but muscles that support and stabilize.. the normal lift.

    if you do chest dips , one week , and benchpress another... chest is worked the same way in each through pulling of the fiber , they work different synergists , and some better ratioed for more weight... on actual muscles for more strength growth or endurance growth to last through a rep or set of reps.

    Now changing the exercises wont make you get past a plateau or anything.. Changing the muscles worked , and weight the muscles are stressed with.

    So you can keep the same exercises all year round no changes.. if you'd like , IF you have a routine designed for overall stimulation of every muscle to not have any weak chainlinks in your body to cause a plateau.

    But of course you would have to make the same ratio of muscles worked the same so they can grow at the same pace , or else your results will slow so those muscles can catch up , so those more worked muscles can go back to growing..

    So all im saying is that a hammer curl as a staple in a workout with how it is built.. Is not a good idea IMO.. just as a backup for a plateau if your lagging muscles are in the carpiradialis's or one of the other muscles IF the ratios worked are different.

    It'd be nice to see a scientific experiment showing the % of muscle involvement of every single muscle in ALL lifts , and all variations , if this was done.. it would greatly improve the way workouts are designed.

    Still im sorry if I lost anybody...... Again my opinions. backed up only by my thoughts , unless I take the time to make detailed anatomy and research compilations.

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    Default I just do shrugs at the end of my back, delt, bicep day

    I only need to do 2 sets cuz I'm pretty fried by then, but I do alternating sets of hammer curls and regular curls prior to that. Holding the big weights for shrugs works my forearms pretty well, as I don't use straps.

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    I love both these excercies and use both regularly

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    There are 2 heads of the biceps The long head and the shorthead. The brachialis and brachioradialus are located furter towards the elbow and they are lower ie under the long and shortheads. Think of them as being similar to the adductor muscles of the hip joint.
    All statements from Get_Swole are strictly fictional none of the statements should be taken seriously or literally.

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    I feel hammercurls are more of a forearm exercise than actual bicep IMO all im saying.

    for bicep the normal curl with wrist supination as much as possible is the best for both heads of the biceps. Also biceps are proven stronger contracting with supination leading to even more growth.

    hammer curls in my book , is more of a lagging bodypart fix for areas of the forearm since it works only certain muscles of the forearm , and low stimulation for the actual bicep muscles compared to normal curls.

    making them just a correction exercise im not saying do it every once in a while. Just focus your curl work more on more curls and forearm work more on reverse curls or wrist curls than hammer curls.

    total of 8 sets if you do 3 sets of curls 2 for hammer and 3 for forearm work.

    I feel better growth than if you did 2 sets fo rcurls 3 for hammer and 3 for forearm.. your overloading your forearms and not providing enough for biceps.

    A better balanced bicep and forearm workout is keeping the sets for hammer curls as a correction/maintainance exercise than bicep workout build on hammer curls.

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    depends

    if i follow bi's after a back routine then i usually stay away from reverse curls. im more prone to forearm cramps if i do both body parts together.

    regardless both effective exercises

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    Hammer curls are not a forearm exercise. They are for biceps. There are two head of the bicep, thus the root word "bi" meaning "two" in latin. The brachioradialis is a small muscle that runs underneath the bicep. It is not part of the bicep. It is worked more in pulling type of exercises such as rowing, etc, plus hammer curls. Get_Swole is exactly right:

    There are 2 heads of the biceps The long head and the short head. The brachialis and brachioradialus are located further towards the elbow and they are lower ie under the long and short heads. Think of them as being similar to the adductor muscles of the hip joint.
    Reverse curls are mainly for the forearm muscles though they do hit the biceps as well. You have to think of the kinetics of the muscles involved and how they move, what they do. Obviously most bicep exercises will hit the forearm somewhat, and some exercises hit mainly the forearms. The reason you may feel like the hammer curl hits forearms is because one of the functions of the bicep is to rotate the forearm. Rotating the wrist will flex the bicep just a little more on the outer head so a "normal" curl hits that head more, making you feel it more intensely. Hammer curls hit the inside head and outer head together. If you are feeling it in your forearms, you should make sure you are keeping your wrist straight while performing them because they should not be moving/flexing.

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    look up zottman culrs. painful variation of db curls. you'll be amazed at how little you can do at first

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    Quote Originally Posted by saudades View Post
    Hammer curls are not a forearm exercise. They are for biceps. There are two head of the bicep, thus the root word "bi" meaning "two" in latin. The brachioradialis is a small muscle that runs underneath the bicep. It is not part of the bicep. It is worked more in pulling type of exercises such as rowing, etc, plus hammer curls. Get_Swole is exactly right:



    Reverse curls are mainly for the forearm muscles though they do hit the biceps as well. You have to think of the kinetics of the muscles involved and how they move, what they do. Obviously most bicep exercises will hit the forearm somewhat, and some exercises hit mainly the forearms. The reason you may feel like the hammer curl hits forearms is because one of the functions of the bicep is to rotate the forearm. Rotating the wrist will flex the bicep just a little more on the outer head so a "normal" curl hits that head more, making you feel it more intensely. Hammer curls hit the inside head and outer head together. If you are feeling it in your forearms, you should make sure you are keeping your wrist straight while performing them because they should not be moving/flexing.
    Exactly what I was going to try to say. It's also been said that hammers will give your bicep "width and thickness" (whereas supinated curls or regular curls give you the "peak").
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscleitis View Post
    look up zottman culrs. painful variation of db curls. you'll be amazed at how little you can do at first

    I think I'll try these next bicep workout...Looks like a good exercise.

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