saturn1

This is a repost TooSmall made on Ugffl. Great article.

WTF? I don't know how true this really is, but I want to share it with you.

Originally posted on T-nation.

If you were to design the ultimate protein drink, what characteristics would it have? Of course it would have to contain high quality protein and taste good. It would also be free of any potential dangerous chemicals (as crazy as that sounds... ).

The meal replacement Muscle Milk has been a hot topic on the message board of late, so let's see if it holds up to our checklist.

High quality proteins? Check.

Tastes good? Yup.

Free of potentially dangerous substances? Nope.

Hyperbole aside, the biggest problem with Muscle Milk is that it contains the potentially dangerous chemical glycocyamine. I originally discussed the implications of consuming glycocyamine and the increased risk of cardiovascular disease in Dangerous Creatine article, but this substance is much worse than originally thought.


Dangerous Creatine: Now With 80% More Danger!

The first problem with this substance is that glycocyamine is known to increase our blood levels of homocysteine, which is thought to be a risk factor for cardiovascular disease. This means that we're more likely to have heart disease/atherosclerosis when our homocysteine levels are high. Oh, and don't forget that cardiovascular disease is still the #1 killer in the Western world.

It's recently been reported that the correlation between homocysteine levels and cardiovascular disease isn't as strong as once thought — which some have used to justify their consumption of glycocyamine. To put it bluntly, this weaker correlation means that you're not quite as likely to die as once thought from consuming this substance.

"Not quite as likely to die from it?! Sounds great! Sign me up!"


Safety First

While it may seem irresponsible to include such a chemical in a supplement, you shouldn't be fooled into thinking that the industry is all about profits. Its only concern is your health and safety. Really.

In an attempt to minimize this potentially dangerous side effect, Muscle Milk also contains a substance known to reduce homocysteine levels; betaine.

Although betaine may be effective under natural circumstances, we don't know if it will work while we're artificially increasing homocysteine through another chemical. Additionally, the effective dose for a 200lb bodybuilder is nearly 10g of betaine a day (4, 7), although the highest dose of most products will only give you 2g (and that's just from the companies that actually report their betaine concentration).

That's like producing a supplement that has been shown to increase your risk for getting cancer, but adding a little green tea to "balance things out."


Glycocyamine = Brain Damage?

Let's pretend that you have a huge hard-on for glycocyamine and believe that the correlation to cardiovascular disease is weak, or that the betaine takes care of the problem. Well, we're home free right? Maybe not, because the worst part about glycocyamine has been described as "neurotoxic action" (6).

Among the effects of glycocyamine is an inhibitory effect on a brain enzyme called the sodium pump (8, 9). This isn't just any enzyme; the sodium pump is responsible for all nerve signals that happen in our body. For the record: screwing up our nerve signals is BAD. Messing with our brain is BAD.

What's worse is that the sodium pump is so important that it exists not only in nerve cells, but in every single cell in the body. This means that although only the brain has been studied (so far), glycocyamine has the potential to disrupt the proper functioning of every cell.

Again, this is BAD.

For those who are concerned about performance (and I'm sure that we all are), our muscle has a high concentration of the sodium pump. After studying it for 7 years, I can tell you that this enzyme is critical for proper muscle contraction and optimal performance. This is why it's not surprising to learn that high glycocyamine levels have been implicated in reducing muscle strength (2).


Bullet (Points) on the Brain

• Glycocyamine inhibits the sodium pump by inducing oxidative damage (10), which begs the question of what else glycocyamine affects.

• To worsen the story, glycocyamine also alters nerve signals by acting as a neurotransmitter itself. (6)

• A disease characterized by elevated glycocyamine levels is manifested in seizures and an impaired ability to control movement (dyskinesia). (6)

While I'm usually the first to call for studies that are more specific to strength athletes, we're not just talking about evidence for performance enhancement, we're talking about health. When it comes to a supplement having potentially harmful effects, even in vitro and animal studies should give us cause for concern.


What's the Point?

Realistically speaking, the idea of consuming glycocyamine is just messed up, but there has to be a reason why it's in there. The main idea behind its supplementation is that it is converted to creatine by our bodies, so taking in more glycocyamine results in higher creatine and homocysteine levels.

Glycocyamine —> Creatine + Homocysteine

NOTE: Glycocyamine is meant as a creatine substitute and doesn't enhance creatine levels to a greater extent than actual creatine supplementation. And don't forget that until glycocyamine is converted, the "neurotoxic action" is still a problem.

While this would have been a great idea when creatine was close to a dollar per serving, creatine monohydrate is now the cheapest supplement available and substitutes aren't needed; particularly when the substitutes are far more expensive and potentially harmful.

The Cheaters' Paradox

Take a look at a typical glycocyamine-containing supplement, and you'll notice that the actual dose is never reported. This is likely due to the excessive cost of this chemical, so instead of the actual required dose, companies can skimp on this expensive product.

Even if the conversion to creatine in the body were 100% (which, biochemically speaking, is next to impossible), a dose of 3-5g is required once a person is fully creatine loaded. Paradoxically, an under-dosed supplement may actually be a benefit, because it means that the threat to one's health is less likely.

To Summarize the Potential Problems Associated With Glycocyamine

• Neurotoxic action

• Increased risk of cardiovascular disease

• Neural misfiring

• Increased oxidative damage

• At best it is no better than creatine

• More expensive than creatine

• Inhibition of one of our most important enzymes (affects every cell)

• Decreased performance

• Implicated in reducing muscle strength


Moving On

Potentially dangerous chemicals aside, we should take a look at the other ingredients in Muscle Milk to figure out what makes this stuff tick. After all, it's called Muscle Milk so it must be pretty badass.

In fact, the main reason for the name (other than the obvious marketing) is because it contains an ingredient similar to one found in human breast milk; colostrum. The idea behind this (other than the obvious gimmick) is that breast milk elevates IGF-1 (a very anabolic hormone) for us... when we're babies.

You see babies have underdeveloped digestive systems that can absorb things that we, as adults, can't. This allows for rapid growth and development — babies are tissue-building machines.

Unfortunately, we know that this super anabolic phase is short lived and certainly doesn't apply to adults. While consuming 60 grams of colostrum a day has interesting effects, elevating IGF-1 levels is not one of them (3). Considering that Muscle Milk contains a miniscule amount compared to this, you might as well drink your IGF-1 if you want to throw money away.

Of course, the idea of including colostrum in supplements isn't a new idea. TC was writing about colostrum over ten years ago at Muscle Media 2000, but we know a lot more now.


But the Taste!

The biggest asset to Muscle Milk is that is tastes good. Okay, quite good. While I don't mind the taste of most protein powders, it's a pleasant surprise to find another one that's actually enjoyable to drink. Muscle Milk accomplishes this by adding fat to their product, which in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but then they had to go and say that it causes fat loss (sigh).

The main fat used is canola oil, a good but not overly special cooking oil. Another fat used is Medium Chain Triglycerides (MCT's). Some of you vets may recognize these because they were a hot topic back in the 90's, when they were supposed to have almost magical effects.

Back then, MCT's (you may remember them as "fractured fats") were supposed to be super healthy and used as energy, not stored as fat. There was also the idea that they could help improve performance, particularly for endurance athletes.

Of course, we really didn't know much about fat as a nutrient a decade ago, so the idea that fats could be healthy was itself a strange concept. Rather than bore you with a detailed literature review to resurrect a dead supplement, I can simplify things to say that the MCT theories didn't pan out and there's nothing magical about them (1, 5).

On a positive note, MCT's are better than the typical bad fats that we eat, and the average person would do well to substitute some of their bad fats with them. Unfortunately, they're just not what we had hoped them to be.

So to reiterate, it's not bad that Muscle Milk contains cooking oil and MCT's, but the outrageous claims that come along with it are.


Conclusions

Muscle Milk is a great tasting meal replacement that contains a potentially dangerous chemical. That alone should say it all, but there's always more.

If that specific "mouth feel" is that important to you, you could easily add your own higher-quality fat to a high quality protein powder. It would cost less, and you could control both the quantity and quality of the nutrients involved. Lastly, the theory that drinking colostrum will replicate our neonatal IGF-1 response just doesn't hold any milk... er, water (yeah that was bad).


FAQ

Q. Your [sic] wrong. I used Muscle Milk and didn't die so I know it's safe.

A. Clearly the neurotoxic action of glycocyamine does not result in sudden brain damage and may take many years to manifest itself — by which time it could be too late to reverse any damage. We also know that cardiovascular disease requires years of abuse to ones' body before problems occur. That type of short term thinking is the worst thing you can do for yourself.

Special thanks to Nathan Devey for his assistance with this document.


References

1. Goedecke JH, Clark VR, Noakes TD, Lambert EV. The effects of medium-chain triacylglycerol and carbohydrate ingestion on ultra-endurance exercise performance. Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab. 2005 Feb;15(1):15-27.

2. Kan HE, Buse-Pot TE, Peco R, Isbrandt D, Heerschap A, de Haan A. Lower force and impaired performance during high-intensity electrical stimulation in skeletal muscle of GAMT-deficient knockout mice. Am J Physiol Cell Physiol. 2005 Jul;289(1):C113-9.

3. Kuipers H, van Breda E, Verlaan G, Smeets R.Effects of oral bovine colostrum supplementation on serum insulin-like growth factor-I levels. Nutrition. 2002 Jul-Aug;18(7-8):566-7.

4. Matthews A, Johnson TN, Rostami-Hodjegan A, Chakrapani A, Wraith JE, Moat SJ, Bonham JR, Tucker GT.An indirect response model of homocysteine suppression by betaine: optimising the dosage regimen of betaine in homocystinuria. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Aug;54(2):140-6.

5. Misell LM, Lagomarcino ND, Schuster V, Kern M. Chronic medium-chain triacylglycerol consumption and endurance performance in trained runners. J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2001 Jun;41(2):210-5.

6. Neu A, Neuhoff H, Trube G, Fehr S, Ullrich K, Roeper J, Isbrandt D. Activation of GABA(A) receptors by guanidinoacetate: a novel pathophysiological mechanism. Neurobiol Dis. 2002 Nov;11(2):298-307."Neurotoxic action"

7. Schwahn BC, Hafner D, Hohlfeld T, Balkenhol N, Laryea MD, Wendel U.Pharmacokinetics of oral betaine in healthy subjects and patients with homocystinuria. Br J Clin Pharmacol. 2003 Jan;55(1):6-13.

8. Zugno AI, Stefanello FM, Streck EL, Calcagnotto T, Wannmacher CM, Wajner M, Wyse AT. Inhibition of Na+, K+-ATPase activity in rat striatum by guanidinoacetate. Int J Dev Neurosci. 2003 Jun;21(4):183-9.

9. Zugno AI, Franzon R, Chiarani F, Bavaresco CS, Wannmacher CM, Wajner M, Wyse AT. Evaluation of the mechanism underlying the inhibitory effect of guanidinoacetate on brain Na+, K+-ATPase activity. Int J Dev Neurosci. 2004 Jun;22(4):191-6.

10. Zugno AI, Scherer EB, Schuck PF, Oliveira DL, Wofchuk S, Wannmacher CM, Wajner M, Wyse AT. Intrastriatal administration of guanidinoacetate inhibits Na+, K+-ATPase and creatine kinase activities in rat striatum. Metab Brain Dis. 2006 Mar;21(1):41-50."Oxidative damage"

w000dy

That is a great read and great info. I am glad I read all that!! No more Muscle Milk for me even though I have only used it once! Thanks for taking the time to post this up bro!!

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Crazymank

I drinc musl melk al the time. Dunt wat that articol meens butt I feal fine!

Stickler*

good read.. thanks

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Get_Swole

damn norm your keyboard broke bro lol thanks for the article cyphon great read.

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saturn1

I think norm is demonstrating the brain damage.lmao

Get_Swole

lmao hahahahha

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NAIR

This was a GREAT contribution to the board.

After I read this a couple weeks ago I did a little research on glycocyamine and it turns out that this is a nasty chemical indeed. From the scientific literature published on various med-journals the nuerotoxicity seems to be less than conclusive but yet still provides enough evidence for me to quit Muscle Milk until they pull it.

I think the most interesting thing here is that glycocyamine is quite unnecessary (just as this article points out) and very expensive.


Also, for the record, I wrote Muscle Milk an e-mail outlining my concerns about the ingredients of their product and I have yet to get a response. Therefore, this leads me one conclusion: FUCK MUSCLE MILK

NAIR

for those seeking more info, heres a great read on the natural formation and effects of glycocyamine in the human body:

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...&artid=1264021

MdTNT

pretty interesting....and i love the stuff....i guess i'll jsut have to keep on hitting myself in the head with hta ball ping hammer...Md-

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mikeswift

great post, thanks bro.

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saturn1

The thing is muscle milk isnt the only one using these products......I just looked at some Muscle milk knockoff's and nitric oxide products like NO-Xplode and they have these ingredients in there.........

Santo224

Dont get me wrong its definitley a great and informative read, however, This wasposted by a guy named Dave Barr on T-Nation, T-nation is owned by the supplement company Biotest, a major competitor of cyto sport, so just keep that in mind. They mentio no correlation of the use of Muscle milk with any of the side effects talked about, tand hey dont mention how much glycocyamine is in Muscle milk. Its almost liek saying that soda has caffeine, caffeine can cause your heart to spped up and have a heart attach, therefore soda causes heart attacks. I think its a great read, but you can only take it with a grain of salt, i tried googling glycocyamine and muscle milk all day long and found nothing but the same artcle posted on a couple different boards.

NAIR

You make a GREAT point however CytoSport failed to reply to my concerns (mainly, the ones highlighted in the article).

To get a good unbiased opinion of glycocyamine check out some online medical journals. As noted previously, it's less than conclusive yet very suggestive.

saturn1

Glycocyamine and Health
By David Tolson of 1fast400.com



Some products that contain it:
Satur8
Swole V2
Plasma Expandor
EndoCre3
LOADED
Muscle Milk
and many other creatine, NO and MRP's

Displaying 1 to 9 (of 9 products) Result Pages: 1


Glycocyamine, more commonly known as guanidinoacetate (GAA), is a member of a group of compounds known as guanidino compounds and is the immediate precursor to creatine in the body. It is formed in the body from arginine and glycine by glycine amidinotransferase, mainly in the kidney, and then a portion of the formed GAA is transported to the liver, where it is methylated to creatine by guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT) [1]. Glycocyamine is included in many creatine products, and it is claimed that it increases endogenous creatine production, thus operating synergistically with creatine. This article will examine whether or not this claim has any basis, and the potential risks and benefits of glycocyamine supplementation.

It is important to note that the limiting factor in the effectiveness of creatine is creatine transport. Muscle tissue cannot synthesize creatine, so it must be transported to muscle cells from circulating blood by the creatine transporter. Past a certain point, increasing the dosage of creatine yields no additional effect because the muscle creatine transporters are saturated. Therefore, any supplement designed to improve the effectiveness of creatine should increase creatine transport. Glycocyamine does the opposite – it is described in the literature as a "potent inhibitor of CRT [the creatine transporter]." For example, in one study it inhibited creatine uptake across the BBB by 69.8%, confirming the results of earlier studies. This is most likely due to the fact that GAA also uses the creatine transporter, and this results in a competitive inhibition of creatine transport. Glycocyamine is transported to muscle tissue in the place of creatine, and the enzymes necessary to convert glycocyamine to creatine are not present in muscle tissue. In other words, creatine alone would be expected to increase muscle creatine levels more than the combination of creatine and glycocyamine. [2]

Few studies have been conducted on the effects of glycocyamine administration. In one study, rats were given diets with either ~.4 g/kg daily of creatine or ~.36 g/kg daily of GAA (these are rough approximations). Muscle creatine levels were increased by 46% is in the creatine group and 39% in the GAA group relative to control, but muscle ATP was only significantly elevated in the creatine group [3]. The similar increase in muscle creatine levels is likely due to a high rate of conversion of ingested GAA to creatine, which is in line with the fact that GAMT is found in abundance in the liver [4]. This makes GAA the equivalent of expensive creatine. It is likely that supplementing with both GAA and creatine together will increase blood creatine levels, but as stated earlier, this is not a limiting step in how much creatine is stored in muscle tissue.

In addition, GAA carries an added risk when compared to creatine. The conversion of GAA to creatine via GAMT requires the presence of S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), which is the methyl donor in virtually all known biological methylation reactions. The amount of SAMe normally used for endogenous creatine biosynthesis is greater than the amount used for all other methylation reactions combined. When this reaction takes place, homocysteine is produced as one of the end products. Increased blood concentrations of homocysteine have been associated with an increased risk for developing vascular disease. Rats on a GAA supplemented diet have blood homocysteine concentrations 49% higher than control levels. On the other hand, creatine supplementation was associated with a 27% decrease in homocysteine. This is because creatine supplementation downregulates GAA biosynthesis, thus decreasing methylation demand. Although there may be ways of reducing this negative effect (such as inclusion of betaine), it seems much more practical to just supplement with creatine. [3]

If glycocyamine does get past the liver intact, the effects will probably not be desirable. The fact that it competitively inhibits creatine transport is not the only reason. Glycocyamine is also transported across the blood brain barrier (BBB). This may be associated with a variety of negative effects, and the most well-known property of GAA in the brain is as a convulsant [1, 5-7]. GAA increases the production of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the brain [1]. Other mechanisms of neurotoxicity include inhibition of Na+,K+-ATPase, decreased membrane fluidity, and interaction with the GABA-A receptor [8-9]. It is unknown whether these effects are relevant at doses used for supplementation, but it seems unlikely. They primarily become a problem in GAMT deficiency, which results in both elevated brain GAA and creatine deficiency. Still, those with a history of epilepsy should definitely stay away from glycocyamine.

Not all of the effects of glycocyamine supplementation arent necessarily negative. It has been investigated as an antidiabetic, and improves glucose disposal in a mouse model of diabetes [10]. However, given the bulk of the information, creatine alone still seems to be the best choice. Still, those that regularly use cell volumizing supplements can rest easy, as the inclusion of glycocyamine in many formulas probably does not cause any significant decrease in effectiveness or safety, since most or all of it is converted to creatine in the liver.

mikeswift

bump - i keep forgetting to stop buying Muscle Milk because it tastes so damn good

and oh yeah I'm already brain damaged

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The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goals. The tragedy lies in not having any goals to reach.


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NAIR

I have a big tub sitting here at my house too

mikeswift

I just drank one of the little RTD's that has 22grams of Pro in it, I wonder how many of these I need to drink before I'm drain bramaged...

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The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win.
The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goals. The tragedy lies in not having any goals to reach.


www.boogersanddrool.com

irishpride

shit LOL now i read this and now understand why i think mikeswift rules, its the brain damage i got from drinking this shiznit

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Disclaimer - My comments in no way promote the use of androgenic/anabolic steroids and/or any prescription drug without a physician's prescription. All my comments, questions and referrals are striclty for entertainment purposes only!

mikeswift

you know i rule baby, with or without the brain damage I'm sexy as hell!

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The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win.
The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goals. The tragedy lies in not having any goals to reach.


www.boogersanddrool.com

mikeswift

i just read the label on my empty "box" and it doesn't say Glycocyamine anywhere on it... interesting

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The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win.
The tragedy of life doesn't lie in not reaching your goals. The tragedy lies in not having any goals to reach.


www.boogersanddrool.com

saturn1

Bump a good ole post

saudades

There's an article over on bodybuilding.com by Derek Cornelius that mentions glycocyamine being used to convert to creatine in the liver for non-creatine responders, but that you must also supplement with betaine in a 4:1 ratio to keep the liver supplied with methyl groups or the glycocyamine will increase homocysteine and cause damage, etc. He recommends always having a 4:1 ratio of betaine to glycocyamine in any product using glycocyamine.

thestr8circle

I don't see that ingredient on the 2 bottles of Muscle Milk I have sitting in front of me. I have the new "improved" formula here. I wonder if it has been removed?....

tsc

saturn1

I have an old jug of muscle milk and it is listed and true it's not listed on the new jugs.....I love the stuff and still wonder in an unregulated industry if they just stopped listing it or in fact removed it from the formula.

MrPerfect

SPELL CHECK j/k

looks like the Mm is taking over your brain already

jtunderdog

I have noticed coca cola started distrubuting some of the mm rtds in Louisiana as of late. I just read this post and never knew about this issue. I can assure you of this. I will never buy monster milk. That crap is awful. It was free and I could barely make myself drink it. LOL. If anyone finds out about please post an update about the new contents.

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DOLAMI76

Now I know why people have started to call me retarted.I drink MM and No Xplode everyday.

Local124bro

For me its simple, that artilcle was just too long to read and muscle milk tastes soooo good..... I think Im gonna have one. Lol!

buschris

Muscle milk is safe now.

Pumping Iron

They did remove it.. You can do a quick search on Google for a few articles from Cyto saying they removed it. But did they really???

Get_Swole

Yeah i do alot of work for the Coke plants here contracting and they get paid to store it and distribute. They also distribute the cambells soup sip things. and lost of other shit.

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dwight

That's scary!!!!

saturn1

Bump for those wanting info on what used to be muscle milk. Label shows no more toxins but then again we would need independent lab analysis to truly confirm.

SuperVin

Can anybody recommend a new brand of suppliments? )