OK, thru talking with Garbageman I have learned some info that while I had a vague understanding of Slin/GH interaction, there was alot of missing info. He helped me understand it better so I will post the PMs and hope they help clarify it for you all as well.
big_byrd52 wrote on 12-20-2003 11:35 PM:
hey garbageman, i found this old post on using IGF and GH together with slin. i was unclear about ur last post on wether is was good to use slin with IGF or not. here is the link, thanks
garbageman wrote on 12-24-2003 09:31 AM:
YES!!!!!!!Without question you need the insulin present to help with the ever occuring IGF-1 binding proteins. The insulin and the binding proteins, enzyme / substrate binding site are as much a like as igf and the binding protein so it (slin) will take up the binding proteins instead of the igf. if igf binds to the igf binding protein site (like normal but still bad) the igf is bound up and rendered usless as far as anabolic purposes are concerned. I know this sounds a bit weird but if you re-read it, it will make sense. Think of it this way Igf is a running back, the igf binding proteins are linebackers and the slin is a fullback that knows how to throw killer blocks down field!
big_byrd52 wrote on Today 12:30 AM:
hey,
ok thanks. i understand the concept of receptor sites and binding. i took some extra chem and bio classes to get a better grasp on the basics. So with the slin, does it matter what time it is administered? i will be using humalog, which has 1 and half hour active life. should it be taken at the same time as IGF? thanks for the help.
Garbageman:
Yes!! Take it in the same dart as the IGF-1 (or GH for the sake of argument). IGF-1 (regular sequence, not the Long)....has a active plasma half life of about 20 minutes !!! That sucks! and these binding proteins are ALWAYS ready and wait to attach to the igf and render it useless ....that sucks too! I would most definatly do them at the same time and I would also addminister the igf DIRECTLY after training, this is when you will get the most bang for your buck INCLUDING the insulin use. I assume you know how much slin to use and LILLY is a great choice, I stick with humalin R to keep things as simple as possible, I think the R "kicks in and starts to bring down glucose levelsa about 28 minites into injection (sub cu). I would not reccome d going over board on the slin like some of these kamakazzis I rad on the boards, they are young and are playing with fire. I am probably preaching to the choir about this though. P.S. IGF receptor gets up regulated form stress...i.e. weight training!! Finally something that doesn't suck!
Good luck my bro and if I can help you out any more I will do my best to point you in the right direction! For new years, be a huge shreaded freak for me...since I am not using any growth peptides this year and am dieting down to be a dweeby ripped up nerd!! No really, I am trying to qualify for nationals this year and my diet kicks in the second week in January so it looks like putting on size is out the window for me!
P.S. don't listen to the jerk offs who tell you to take this or GH at night....bad idea!
Big_byrd52:
thanks bro,
i have been taking my GH at night, i dont know if its because of the Gh or not, but i wake up almost every hour on the nights i take it, but not on the weekends? i was under the immpression that u should take Gh when insulin levels are low, ie away from slin and carb meals. there is so much conflicting info it gets confusing. I am using jintropin GH and will be adding in IGF LR3 soon. does the same rule apply with LR3 as with the reg? I usually use 10 units log post workout with an n-large shake, 86 g carbs, and half of one an hour later. Should this be adjusted while on LR3?
Garbageman:
I understand you concern about the conflicting info..there are tons and everyone is an expert. You have to see what works best for you, as long as it is supported by science and proven documented facts. i can olny give you my advise but I assure you everything I do (and say) has been clinically supported, I wouldn't do it myself otherwise, I don't care if "joe schmo" said it worked, untill it is proven in-vitro and more importantly in-vivo I wouldn't waste my time. The reason I would NOT take my GH at night is becasue I would supress my own endogenous GH secreations, off the feedback mechanism. Natural GH levels, which is almost the same amount at typical dosage of a BB injection, excreation is lost. So you do ot have that going for you. Also GH levels are naturally secreated when insulin is low an glucagon is high, so you missed out on this too. If you are not using insulin as a GHBP blocker (or for lack of better words uptake), you are not getting the full effect of the drug.
Remember this....EVERYBODY has the same metabolic pathways......but we all do not go down the path at the same speed. meaning when you here that fat chick complain, "that doesn't work for me!" that is bull shit. Cellular biology and pharmacolgy all follow the same rules and your cell reacts the same way as the fat chicks does, just that ceratin reactions may not be as amplified.
the only difference as far as anabolic purposes between regluar IGF and long strand is because they genetically added on to the end of thew AA strand, it has a longer plasma half life and is less prone to being sucked up and attached to GHBP, technically making it more anabolic.
big_byrd52 wrote on Yesterday 02:18 PM:
Hey,
i believe what u are saying, i have read most of ur posts where set the record straigt for some of these guys. thats why im asking u so many questions. thanks for taking the time to teach me. so far what we have is:
1) take slin, igf or slin,Gh at the same time to bind up IGF-1 BPs and GHBPs.
2) dont take Gh at night. i assume first thing in the morning or if wake up at night to piss.
3) Take IGF & slin post workout
One more question, for now at least, i am unclear about GH relaese when insulin is low but glucogon is high. is glucogon produced when frotein is broken down for fuel? How does injecting GH and slin at the same time mimick this scenerio? Also, how should i approach carb intake around gh shot
Garbageman:
Yes! You got it my man! The only thing is, and I may have explained it wrong was with the glucogan thing. You are correct when you say that high glucogan levels are up when aminos are being oxidized for ATP, that is what glucogan does.this process is called glucogeonenisis. But injecting slin does not mimic this, it shuts glucogeonenisis off thus lowering glucogon levels, think of glucogon levels and insulin levels as a teader totter if one is up the other is down. NOW here is the thing when natural glucogon is high, natural GH is raised, when natural insulin is high natural gh is low. but when you inject slin, obviously your natural GH will be low plus it would be low anyhow because you will be injecting GH with it anyhow and the body will recognize GH levels present and not put out any either.
Your carb intake 6-10gr of carbs per unit of insulin, if they arwe simple carbs you can afford to be on the lower side of they arte complex, stick with the 10gr/unit. But it is better to be safe and eat a bit more then slip into a coma. The other deal with using slin with gh and IGF is the decrease in insulin sensativity in the cell for uptake of nutrients....but that is another story.
We are discusing the issue of slin sensitivity and the use of T3 with Gh.
