IGF-1 is legal, so it shouldn't give you that much trouble. I am aware that some U.S. states have "drug paraphernalia" laws that get you charged for just having a syringe on you. My suggestion: move. I live in Canada so my legal knowledge for U.S. citizens is very limited. Still, I don't see how someone is going to find out what I do in my toilet stall...
Never was a problem for me. I know a guy who tried in his car and was seen a few times, and got in some crazy situations with that. No police or anything, just zany adventures of a stressed guy.
Great info Grunt....I always like reading your stuff. I am in the middle of a 16week anabolic steroids cycle, and I started it using IGF, by the end of this 16 weeker I should have not only larger cells from the anabolic androgenic steroids but new cells from the IGF that are now larger cause of the AAS correct.
Indeed my friend. On top of having more actual muscle cells, the IGF-1 will also fuse myoblasts with your existing cells and donate their nucleii which are in fact myonucleii.
A muscle's protein-repair engine is the myonucleii. The more of them in a cell, the bigger the cell and the greater the ability to regenerate protein. This explains the permanent gains from IGF-1 in that the number of myonucleii does not easily decrease, which gives a cell a new minimum size. Unless of course a person undergoes starvation, but that's not the case around these parts. When we take anabolic androgenic steroids, it's the myonucleii that get stimulated into overdrive. This is how IGF-1 can make you a good responder to anabolic androgenic steroids again after numerous cycles when you feel you can't grow much anymore.
One limiting factor for the myoblast fusion effect is of course the number of available myoblasts. The more of them you have, the more easily they will fuse with the muscle cells and donate their myonucleii. Below a certain treshold, they will simply refuse to fuse. This is easily prevented by the addition of MGF, which is only active in one formulation of Pegylated MGF. MGF proliferates the myoblasts. Adding MGF to the IGF cycle makes tons of sense: you keep the myoblast numbers high and fusion keeps going strong.
i know nuttin about igf so dont take this wrong im just curious, was this info from research or someones theroy. the only reason i ask is cuzz you put a limit on the mcgs before it went to intestins. everyone is different where did the # come from? thanks for your time.
It's all Grunt76's work. 13 years of research and human trials.
You are right, the number is a guesstimate and I have removed it from this version of my thread for the reason that it was getting misunderstood as an absolute rather than an indicator. From talking with other users, 40mcg is a dose at which, when injected immediately postworkout, good long-term gains are experienced with slowly diminishing effect.
The ideal dose would be the one that you can use forever. Remember, if you inject just the right amount immediately postworkout, there will be no spillover of the IGF-1 into other receptors and so these (local) receptors will have plenty of time to re-upregulate and the myoblasts to re-proliferate before next injection time, and so for every bodypart.
Sadly I must report that I have not yet found that "perfect dose" so 40mcg is a good place to go, where you get your results, no major gut effect and only slow desentitization.
No matter how you split it, the "perfect dose" would be variable depending on muscle worked, intensity of workout and about a zillion other factors, making it just a theoretical thing.
Question, and it may not belong in this thread. I've been catching up on my reading of IGF as I am interested in using it in my next post cycle therapy.
Do you still suggest the EOD protocol for post cycle therapy or ED? I typically have 5 lifting days a week.
Also about localized injections. Let's say you work out biceps and lats one day. And let's say you're doing 50mcg of IGF, should you split the dosage between both bi's and your lats? Making for 4 doses of 12.5mcg?
I apologize if that's a dumb question but I haven't seen that explained in all the threads I've been reading. It would make sense to me to split it up like that, but I could be wrong.
And lastly, just to reinforce what my reading has burned into my head. IM shots are vastly superior to sub-q... correct?
Any answers would be helpful while I continue educating myself on this supplement
Just pick either your biceps or your lats for pinning, 2 doses of 20-25mcg is good. The following week, you can pick the other bodypart.
For PCT - post cycle therapy - , a product like Oratropin-1 might be the best bet. It is systemic and time-released, and is the only form of IGF-1 that can get to the pituitary itself, which makes it perfect for full recovery from the longest, harshest cycles. Otherwise just keep on keeping on with standardIGF-1 protocols.
Yes IM shots are vastly superior to SQ.
Grunt, great post. I have a couple of questions.
What would your body naturally produce of IGF on any given day if any? What would be the range? Would it be 5mcg. I am just trying to gain a percpective on how much we are injecting above our natural production.
I have read that Dave Palumbo, the pro bodybuilder with 3 years of med school asserts that the amount of paracrine IGF-1 produced by a human body is in the 1mcg range. There should be broad fluctuations about this measurement, which surely must be a guesstimate.
Thanks, so even if its 2mcg per day were injecting apprx. 20xs normal production.
Assuming you have time, do you think going lower doses for longer periods would be a safer way to gaurd against intestinal growth and still get the positive results desired? Say 10-20mcg range?
Yes, there is a protocol developed by Palumbo wich does this.
I prefer the idea of doing 40mcg E3D though.
Both might be equally good and safe, for all I know.
from the studies i have read scientists postulate that myostatin and igf-1present in cardiac muscle operate on completely separate pathway in comparison to skeletal muscle.
in other words, igf-1 and myostatin inhibition will not have the same effect on cardiac muscle as it does on skeletal muscle.
can you confirm this grunt? i havent seen any difinitive studies, and dont want to give out brotelligence
I cannot confirm this, although I agree there is no evidence of any heart-enlarging effects. For example, Long R3 IGF-1 is used for kids with deficiencies and no heart size monitoring is ever done but these are growing children, so their hearts probably do need to grow anyways. Pubmed is at your disposal if you want to look into that aspect of it. I concentrated my studies on enhancing the local effect and lessening the systemic.
So the igf-1 is more effective than the lr3 version?
This whole thread is about Long R3 IGF-1. And no, hIGF-1 isn't more effective.
Virgin Cycle.... human growth hormone - somatropin - alone? Igf-Lr3 alone? Mgf alone? HGH/IGFlr3? IGF/MGF? HGH/MGF????
They are all low-side-effect options bro, any of these is good.
Some people will say that you should start with anabolic steroids (even the semi-legal ones) before the peptides, but I like peptides for a first-timer, because they are low on sides and their effects are more subtle.
Look Grunt, I know some pros personally and if you ask them they will tell you that IGF-1 doesn't give you the guts, it's all the insulin.
Well if you read a bit more in this thread and got some science in you, you would know that gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - & insulin produce IGF-1 which is released in the blood. The pros pretty much all take gh - growth hormone (somatropin) - with their insulin. So there.
And I'm not saying that 100mcg ED guarantees that you will get gut growth. There is obviously no way to ascertain that. I have gotten PM's from guys doing 80mcg - 120mcg ED and getting gut so take that the way you need to. One thing is for sure: you are much more likely to get it if you dose ED than at the same dose E3D.