Need thoughts on TRT issues and ideas on testosterone replacement therapy

[EMW14]

Ok, this is probably a no-no, but I'll put these links up here anyway and let Presser yell at me if he must...

Here's one of the things I found when searching for arimistane:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1104/7132/products/Arimistane.png?v=1478363108

I found somethingcalled CortStat when hunting for the Phosphatidylserine .

Are you familiar with either of these?

Also, should I drop the ai when running these two products?

You're so right about the mind fuck. We've been dealing with this shit for years, now, and at least we know what it is. So my wife is pretty cool about it, but it certainly does have an effect.

It fucks with my head, too. Wondering if it's going to work or not doesn't do much for making me want to go for it. And when it comes up and then goes down in the middle of the action it's even worse.

Tell you what, when I get back into the sweet spot I'm not cutting it back, bloodwork or not. The doc can have a fit if he wants to, he can even cut me off if he has to. Test is cheaper from a ugl than my copay from the pharmacy.

I'm pretty reluctant to blast at 500. I've never done more than 250 a week, and at that dose the ED was bad. Total limp dick. Not even a twitch. One time I did 400mg at once by mistake. I had 200 mg in my head and did 2ml (200 mg/ml). I had a hardon all day for 2 days, then it shut down completely. So I think if I went up to 500 from where I am now, which is 180/week and having problems, it probably wouldn't turn out too well.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

I have only used arimistane while on trt dose and I tapered down on ai it. I wouldn't depend on it alone to control estro while on higher than trt dose or completely stop ai. I take my letro 2 drops twice week instead of 3 drops 3 times for example. I don't go higher than 75 mg of arim. per night and only take at night regardess of instructions. Companies will use things to sell or promote but bottom line is that it is an hardener. H.A.F Black is one I use often has both ingredients. Cortishield a good one and man nolvadren also good some lacking one or other combo. Look at above post at chemical numecular of Arimistane androsta-3,5-diene-7,17dione look for this ingredient this is what has done me good and helps even with trt dose. Try it. Most mainstream bodybuilding supplement companies have it in different things labelled for pct, estrogen inhibitor, and anabolic cortisol suppressing supplements. The phosphatidylserine is in alot of things as well and combined in some withe arimistane. Phosphat taken when alone to control cortisol dt bear thread on cortisol has dose on it I always follow label on that one. People have been taking these for a while now. Arimistane is a modified version of 7-keto drea. I alook get harden effect taking 7keto.
I know shops local that sell these for decent price. Gnc does carry arim any more but used to.

 

[EMW14]

I just ordered a bottle of the HAF Black. Will let you know what happens. Thx very much for your input.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

U are welcome. I also did more research the whole time refreshing what I already read and related to myself. I share the same problem and wanted to explain the best I could to help u out. I understand this all too well.
I respect u staying on proper dosing protocol with your trt!
I will have to do the same soon I have been blasting and know it's not what is best for me.
But I have dialed in my trt dose with my Ai and I am fine as long as i address my cortisol and sbhg time to time to fix ED I get. Please keep me posted on product effectiveness. Also keep in mind u will be changing from a dopamine antagonist (anti-p). At 180 mg a week I would use no more than 1/2 mg adex three times a week. If u see supplement is lowering estro taper adex to less. I taper my liquid letro by the drop. Till dialed in.
The products I mentioned are safe and never affected my blood work but my estrogen isn't tested. But my free testosterone has been higher on labs when taking that combo brand and all. I am very careful when it comes to adjusting estro, cortisol, or prolactin but I never took anti Prolactin. I have taken L-dopa (velvet bean extract) though and that seems to help sometimes too. I haven't gotten much advice from others either it seems uncommon for most on trt or testosterone unless they using deca. Tren with testosterone always make me same as test just more aggressive.
Emw, stay with your Dr with trt. U need bloodwork for safety and I myself need my Dr because I have an order once a year I depend on him for to do therapeutic phlebotomy as much as every 3 weeks if necessary but 5 weeks usually works. I have stimulating reactions of rbc production more than most people even at trt 100 mg per week. Be sure u split your trt cypionate at two equal injections or figure out dosing and do every 3 days instead of twice a week. To combat ED u wanna keep your levels as stable as possible. Good luck my man!

 

[EMW14]

Thanks, Mechanic. I just looked through all my bloodwork. Like I said, I have every lab test result since starting this in 2012. Not all of them are comprehensive, some tested only serum test and estrodiol; but the comprehensive ones are all pretty similar.

I was specifically looking for cortisol, which has never been tested. Also looked for SHBG, but that hasn't been tested either.

I have two comprehensive tests from two different periods, one when I felt the best I can remember feeling and ED not an issue at all (including night time wood every night); the other was during a time when I WAS having bad ED, couldn't get it up without viagra.

Both test results are similar.

Good period:
Total serum test 1377
Estrodiol 82
Free and weakly bound test: 32.9%
Prolactin 15.7

NO GOOD:
Serum test 1277
Estrodiol 43
Free test 30.7

After reviewing this stack of bloodwork again, I did find one test. That included cortisol. That test was done during a time when the doc had me doing 200 mg every other week (I argued with this guy about this, and lost. Basically he said, "My way or the highway", so I went along until I found someone else who had a better idea what he is doing with testosterone). During this time, the ED would go like this: I'd have a day or so after the 200 mg shot that was great, then it would shut off. Wait a week, and it would start to come back, I'd have a few good days during the 2nd week before the ED came back. This particular test was done a week (exactly) following the 200 mg injection. So, at the time blood was drawn, ED was in effect.
Serum test: 890
Estrodiol 31.8
Prolactin 14.8
Cortisol 7.4 (range 2.3-19.4)

I have one other lab test from the same "every other week" period that shows:
Serum test 997
Free test >50 (range 6.8 - 21.5)
Estrodiol 40.8
Prolactin 15.7 (range 4.0 - 15.2)

Actually, I think THIS was the test taken one week after the 200mg shot. The one above would have been done 2 weeks after.

Given the high free testosterone levels on all the tests where I have it, I'm thinking SHBG isn't an issue? Not really sure. Prolactin has come in consistently slightly high, once I had it at 19. This is what led me to try the anti-P, which as I said before, didn't solve the problem. Therefore, I conclude that prolactin isn't the issue. Seeing the low cortisol (not low, but in the lower end of the normal range) makes me think that might not be it either, BUT it was only checked once. At this point it seems that the only way to really tell is to take somethimg to lower it and see what happens. Going to have to just use the process of elimination until it's figured out.

At least you've given me another direction to go in. If this doesn't cure it, I don't know what to try next, but there has to be something.

I should have the cortisol inhibitor in a few days, then we'll see what happens.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

The one good at top. 1377÷20=68.85
1377÷15=91.8
1377 total testosterone ratio estrogen range for that amount should be (68.85-91.8) yours was 82.
No good period is too low estro don't have to figure
Test total testosterone 890 estro ratio (44.5 -59.33) your was 38.8
Last listed test estro range (49.8-64) yours 40.8
Try the supplements see if they help fix your ratios you will know. I did process of eliminating myself.
If u like me your estro needs to sit within ranges above the simple total-t ÷20 and total-t again by ÷15
I posted ranges. Estro too low according to that figure.
Do u now take your dose Monday half then half Thursday this is important for stable levels. U will aways get a spike first 48 hours after injection of test c and it will taper so twice a week always at a minimum.
Your adex if your estro of last test doesn't match range formula cut back your.adex. when I cut mine I use letro if on trt dose.50 mg Monday 50 mg Thurs I usually take 2 to 3 drops on those days I pin. Mine is doses at 4 mg per ml
1 ml is approx 32 drops of suspended liquid.
Adex 1/4 mg twice to three days week should be plenty.
I have found my estrogen sits better at this range and only if I get really lean 8% I can have estro at 30-40 range and have full function with no ED. I do better at range figured above at my normal 11%-14% body fat.
The thing about cortisol is it can increase at certain times of day especially things with anticipation. Those labs were taken in morning correct?
Also sbhg if is too much higher than estrogen will cause ED.
To me the normal estro range labs have is from lower total-t in most guys prolly like 500-600.
With cortisol when released our testicles release something to help testosterone to not be blunted by cortisol release. In higher spikes that are too much this 11oxygenation of androgens isn't enough. Lower cortisol supplements help. Like I have said before try the supplements try and lower your ai for me the supplements help improve ratios without putting too low I only tested estrogen once on arimistane only and I was on blast and came down 60 to 30ish buy it also had leaned up during that period and that alone lowers estro and less fat helps us to have lower level feeling right.

 

[EMW14]

Yes, all labs done in a.m.

I hadn't considered the effect of bodyfat. I'm currently about 13 or 14%, working on gaining. The 1377/82 lab was taken at closer to 9%. Something else to think about.....

Yes, currently pinning M amd Th. Been doing 2x per week like that for close to a year, probably. Definitely longer than 6 months.

Currently taking about 1/3 mg MC Aqua-Dex (from the MC store) 2x per week (with test cyp shot). When I get the cortisol inhibitor I'll back of the Adex a little more.

I wish I had checked bloods before I backed off for the dr (which makes no sense, because I backed off from 180/week to 140/week FOR the dr). I was in great shape then, too, but I know my estro was lower than it b is now. I was taking 1/2 mg adex 2x oer week. Had zero acne and good, hard reliable wood. And was doing 80 mg test cyp Monday, 100 mg Thurs. Doing the same fucking thing now and got limp dick. I sure wish I knew wtf is different. Hopefully I figure it out soon.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Don't let it get to u, it will only make it worse. Wanted to explain what happens to me when it happens. During intercoarse I notice that I am feeling nothing, like it's totally numb almost to the point that I can tell I won't be able to cum. Not long after that it's limp. This is very frustrating. Usually it is that way at least that whole day to 3 days sometimes longer. If it were just that one time, but the fact that it's not told me it's some sort of level of a hormone.

Because your good period above, that your estro is in range of 20 and 15 formula pf total testosterone. Because of that makes me think your estro is too low. As mentioned about body fat. The more we have.the higher estro we will have and less Erectile function. Lower body fat estro will naturally be lower will better function.

When this happens to me if I am above my normal letro dose I back off wait a week see how things are. If I start to see things are worse I go back into other direction slowly. Sometimes I even take 1 drop per night to get things stable. Adjusting AI can be tricky. I always used letrozole, am used to working with it and bloods always great with metabolic panel, tsh, liver function, cholesterol high and low density and free-testosterone. So I know letro not causing me any problems and being i am used to it I won't switch. Very important to get this dialed in and track progress to know how to get it where it needs to be.

I would definitely do equal pins on Monday and Thursday if u have to find equal time apart like Thursday at night then Monday in morning. Keep things right where they are after that and do what I have mentioned until u dial things in.
That way u know what it will take next time and u know what to do when u go back to 140 mg per week. The adjustment will be easy do it slowly similar to the way the ester works, meaning reduce ai over the ester reducing but reduce it at half rate faster than ester on testosterone the cypionate for example.
I adjust dose reduction over 1 week to time the ester of testosterone cypionate.

I can't explain any better than I have tried. The arimistane and phosphatidylserine work together in improving your ratios by changing other things and the arimistane works by the way of suicide like Aromasin does. Whatever they do obviously fixes and issue that my AI alone isn't. The fact that things stay ok for awhile has led me to believe that a ratio had been fixed. U will notice a leaner look and peeing alot from the supplements. They are not magic but good addition and work if used properly. I only take them at night Ai only at night too.

Be careful not to screw up where u are right now by changing things dramatic. I myself never had one problem at all from those two supplements they only helped but I slowly reduce my ai. When everything is perfect I forget to take ai and when I realize I forgot I don't worry about then take half dose next time and stay at even 2 drops once a week or twice and have dropped ai completely on arimistane and phosphatidylserine and felt great but this was at 50 mg test c twice week so 100 trt a week.

I don't depend on arimistane to control my estrogen I have my letro usually always take less but some while on. I actually want to buy like 50 grams of raw quality stuff to use all the time. I know what it does for me.

Google any "lab tests now." I will also post lab place u can get your own order online sent to a lab of choice. Any Lab Tests Now, u just choose what u want and pay and they do. When u get things right again regardless of how remember by tracking where u are and what u doing. I remember never wrote down do what works for u. It would be good to get estrogen checked when everything is good cause u have enough for when bad. Cortisol will lower test to estrogen ratios in a way that estro and testosterone test wont show though. It will rob testosterone.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

I have faith we will sort this out with u. I went and got thru the same thing. We just need to figure out the culprit. Sometimes our ai may be too strong for us compared to others. But more importantly dialing in your property balance and problem in ratios.
That one test did fall within ranges of that way to figure it. A trt specialist came up with that method don't know exactly who but found it when searching for answers years ago. Right now I suspect u need something milder to control estro at trt dose, possibly nothing but over counter stuff. Or dial in trt dose with proper ai dose for stable testosterone and estro. Other hormones will elevate or go down without your body's most efficient ratio. Taking time and not throwing in anything too strong we will figure it out. Once u are good the answer I think will be to chart everything and go on own test estro. Will get u place to get orders yourself for your lab work.
When u sort this out this will be a good thread for guys with issues like this to sort out.

 

[Dean Destructo]

Mega dose stinging nettle extract. Or go for a walk and dig up the roots yourself, super abundant and effective. Even my ancestors knew of this herbal cure for virility. Cheap and effective. Also any amphetamine will help.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Mega dose stinging nettle extract. Or go for a walk and dig up the roots yourself, super abundant and effective. Even my ancestors knew of this herbal cure for virility. Cheap and effective. Also any amphetamine will help.

I myself take adderall for adHD. Also have heard welbutrin helps with this. I believe he just needs to dial everything in and test estro and testosterone. See where he is at to know trust with his proper ratio and know if cortisol is robbing him as well. Believe cortisol comes more with imbalance as well.

- - - Updated - - -

DMI is also combined in with the arimistane and phosphatidylserine combo EC will try that helps me with this issue.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

EMW, "Private MD Labs". Google that! One place to get labs ordered of your choice.

 

[EMW14]

I'll check out Private Labs. Most of those places I've looked at don't service NJ customers. There must be some law in NJ... I did find one that has a location in Langhorne, PA. I might be able to make that work, Langhorne is only 30 miles or so from me.

As far as amphetamines, that's out of the question. I'm a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. Besides, the issue is definitely hormone related. I just haven't figured out what, yet. There's some hormo e that is either up or down or something when I'm having this issue. Something that hasn't been looked at or considered yet. That's the only explanation; how else to explain similar test and estro levels at different times and totally different results. There's something else in the mix. It could be cortisol; we'll find out soon enough when the inhibitor arrives.

I've been thinking about the suggestion to try a testosterone "blast" amd see what happens with that. Before I try that, I'm going to try the cortisol inhibitor. However, I'm thinking about trying it.

If I do, I am thinking test prop so that it clears quickly. I've never done test prop, so I have a few questions:

I know it has a short half life and is fast acting. Should clear completely in what, a week? What about aromitization? Does it aromatize faster also? Will the estrogen clear quickly once the test is cleared? Or does the estro linger longer?

Mechanic, you suggested in a much earlier post that higher testosterone should = wood. I've always thought since I started TRT that too little or too much resulted in limp dick. But now I'm thinking it's not "too much" test, it's some other hormone that is either rising or falling in response. So, since test prop is quick to get in the system, I'm wondering if I can "prove" this theory by using it to jack up my test level and see what happens before estro, cortisol amd whatever else might be fucking with me has a chance to catch up....

Is this a dumb idea?

Today is 3 days after a 100 mg dose of test cyp. Yesterday and the day before I had the "come up, go down" symptom; viagra to the rescue. This morning, I got nothing. Not quite a halfee when my wife came to get some. So what I think is happening is the test level was almost enough to get the job done after it spiked following my Thursday injection; by now it's tapering off, and whatever else is in play is doing what it does. I'm wondering if a boost of test prop might be a way to prove this theory.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Emw, I am a recovering addict myself. Sobriety date
05-29-06. I take the adderall with script and correct for my adhd. They only help my foggy mind and hyperNess. And I still get ED on them. What Dean meant was increase in dopamine helps with ED. And amphetamines or welbutrin which is in anti-depressant class non norcodic often helps is what I mentioned.
I will be ordering me same things I recommend for u soon. Issue happened to me twice in one week I had lowered my test but right now I am doing test acetate 50 mg every 36 hours Tren ace 62.5 every 36 hours my trt 50 mg or sustanon around 65 mg with every 36 hours pin. In do my trt c or the sust to add either with ace pins.

I know my testosterone level is stable I am taking letro 3 drops every night approx. .33 mg. The tren never does it to me not at that dose and only have 1 week left and going back to 50 mg trt twice week to prepare for labs in mid January.

The stinging nettle root he mentioned does do good in increases free testosterone and lowers shbg in I am not mistaken I use it in combos time to time.

I have been it this place lots of times before and each time especially when going back to trt cruise I cut my letro to 2-3 drops 3 then 2 times week and I take arimistane and phosphatidylserine for 60 days. It works for me everytime

 

[Muscle mechanic]

I'll check out Private Labs. Most of those places I've looked at don't service NJ customers. There must be some law in NJ... I did find one that has a location in Langhorne, PA. I might be able to make that work, Langhorne is only 30 miles or so from me.

As far as amphetamines, that's out of the question. I'm a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. Besides, the issue is definitely hormone related. I just haven't figured out what, yet. There's some hormo e that is either up or down or something when I'm having this issue. Something that hasn't been looked at or considered yet. That's the only explanation; how else to explain similar test and estro levels at different times and totally different results. There's something else in the mix. It could be cortisol; we'll find out soon enough when the inhibitor arrives.

I've been thinking about the suggestion to try a testosterone "blast" amd see what happens with that. Before I try that, I'm going to try the cortisol inhibitor. However, I'm thinking about trying it.

If I do, I am thinking test prop so that it clears quickly. I've never done test prop, so I have a few questions:

I know it has a short half life and is fast acting. Should clear completely in what, a week? What about aromitization? Does it aromatize faster also? Will the estrogen clear quickly once the test is cleared? Or does the estro linger longer?

Mechanic, you suggested in a much earlier post that higher testosterone should = wood. I've always thought since I started TRT that too little or too much resulted in limp dick. But now I'm thinking it's not "too much" test, it's some other hormone that is either rising or falling in response. So, since test prop is quick to get in the system, I'm wondering if I can "prove" this theory by using it to jack up my test level and see what happens before estro, cortisol amd whatever else might be fucking with me has a chance to catch up....

Is this a dumb idea?

Today is 3 days after a 100 mg dose of test cyp. Yesterday and the day before I had the "come up, go down" symptom; viagra to the rescue. This morning, I got nothing. Not quite a halfee when my wife came to get some. So what I think is happening is the test level was almost enough to get the job done after it spiked following my Thursday injection; by now it's tapering off, and whatever else is in play is doing what it does. I'm wondering if a boost of test prop might be a way to prove this theory.

On trt is can be tough to dial in. Like I told u some guys estro range best between 20-40. I myself have done better at figure I shown u with higher estro like 80 with total testosterone at 1400.

U gotta know what is your most efficient level and dial it in. The supplements I mentioned always work for me when on blast and get issue or on trt and get issue. Mostly after dose adjustments they help me to get back to my good point. When your balance for your own body isn't correct cortisol will increase because of this.

Everytime I blast I feel much better and don't get worse issues ever. Overtime if aromatasing or body adjusting to deal with extra testosterone it will come back up but with more testosterone it gives me much more room to work with without crashing estro. Prop keeps stable level every eod. Prop and mast really are better as for as keeping more androgenic male fuctions and mast will fight estro thru dht body's natural defense. My issues only happen 8 weeks into blast which is easy to adjust or going back to trt dose. The supplements will help trust me.

Figure out if u need more adex which I really doubt on trt dose u shouldn't need more than what u taking at all. That dose is even enough for a 500 mg blast per week. I am taking more letro right now than normal but I really had got water retention from deca and sustanon and just slowly removed.

Some guys do better with Aromasin. Give the stuff u get a month see what happens reduce your ai slowly while on. Take 75 mg per night two caps I think. Lower ai slowly see what happens. In the duration u will know what is helping. Get down to 1 mg adex at most during week second week notice if u hardening if so and feeling good or better cut adex a little more get where u need to be. U may need to take your trt does 3 times at same total dose as now.
And you gotta get right balance. It's better to take adex less if possible or any ai less as little as possible especially at trt dose. Too much ai will cause a low estro. Low estro symptoms similar as too high. Except no to little water possibly with low energy, ED, no sex drive, joint pains, low high density cholesterol, and even impairment immune system.

One thing u can do is try masterone.with trt doses but I believe things will sort out and I would sort out before adding more androgenic anabolics because u always gotta go back to trt dose so get that right then work on anything else. In others figure out how to get back to safety and vitality.

One another thing is androgens do increase dopamine levels. But sometimes if our levels are low in dopamine our reward system somethings like dean mentioned help.
Not to get on amphetamines but things that increase dopamine. I was on Celexa for 7 years got off things fine began to get anxiety. Got on lexapro year ago and anxiety gone. This medicine also causes some Ed. Dr gives me viagra but 50 bucks a pop too dam expensive.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

In other words with test c u will get an increase a spike first 48 hours after pin. Of coarse u will have more testosterone and u may get a more favorable ratio if your functions get better. But all in all at 1000 to 1400 total test male function has to be there and if not problems are not from testosterone. Stress = cortisol
More testosterone or let's say 1000 to 1400 are not exactly normal levels for estro lab ranges.
What I mean is your estro range may need to be higher to match that above testosterone range.
What was going on before u ever took adex?
Only some guys need an ai on trt or even higher cruise doses. I don't even take a mg of letro a week on cruise or trt dose. My suspicion is you ai dose is too high.
Taper with otc stuff and find out. If u dial in u can still blast later. More testosterone will always =better sex drive and woods but trt dose should be sufficient. Find your balance the supplements are safe.

 

[EMW14]

The HAF Black arrived yesterday, so we'll see what happens with that shortly.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Emw, I looked it up online hadn't taken in a bit. Think it has 120 mg arimistane per 2 cap serving. Maybe take one person night for a few days see what happens.

If I feel like u have a little fluid right now wit has your ed and other signs of high estrogen try going to two.

If u feel u aren't having estro and possibly low taper adex down and taper up to two caps.

This is what I do. I usually go to two caps and within a few days I can tell if I need to lower ai and usually I need to lower it. If not the arimistane seems to help everything and fix my ratios.

First thing I begin to notice is having to pee alot during night and everytime u get up its hard and have to sometimes pee out back door cause it's that hard. No shit! Lol!

 

[EMW14]

Well, I started off with 2 caps a night. Pretty sure estro is on the high side, been tapering the ai down and have acne showing up. Only 2 days in so far but as of right now I got nothing like you describe. I'll give it a few more days before I try changing anything else.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Be patient with it. I had Ed come up last weekend and this past weekend and the week between she was on rag so...
I lowered my ai 1/3 less and good to go now. I will be going back to trt at end of week will continue to lower ai. Sometimes acne can be from more testosterone available or more dht. Remember dht gives sex drive and male functions as well.