Need thoughts on TRT issues and ideas on testosterone replacement therapy

[EMW14]

First some background to put this in context:

I've been on TRT for about 4 years, now, maybe a little less, maybe 3-1/2. I'm 47. What led me to TRT in the first place was E.D. Erectile Dysfunction. Couldn't get it up with any kind of reliability. Other symptoms as well, which I didn't realize I had until I started on TRT and they went away. No need to get into any of that any deeper for the purpose of this discussion.

This thread focuses on the ED issue. Here's what I've experienced: When I get everything lined up just right, meaning my test level and I'm not sure what else, this problem (the ED - limp dick, just so we're all perfextly clear on what I'm talking about) goes away completely. I'll wake up in the middle of the night with a hardon, it comes up and stays up when it's supposed to, everything is wonderful. If I'm too low, it's no good, and surprisingly, if I go too high the ED comes back. In thi "too high" case, it'll come up and seems like everything is gonna be great, but pretty quick it goes back down and nothing (except Viagra) will bring it back. Last time I was at the sweet spot my test level was about 1400 and estrogen 80. I was taking 175 mg a week split into 2 doses, 100 mg on Friday and 75 mg on Tuesday. I said "last time, but that's not accurate. That was a while ago, and my doc made me back down to 140 mg a week. At that dose I was at 850 test and 40 estrodiol. And having ED issues. I went back up to 180 mg a week (100/80 Fri/Tues) and was in great shape again. During this time I started using Aqua-dex from the MC store to control estrogen, which kept my acne at bay. It was pretty much non existent (acne was the only real side effect during my previous run at 175 mg/week)

Then I backed down to 140 for my blood work, satisfied the doc, and have been struggling ever since to find the sweet spot again.

I've tried an anti prolactin (MC's liquid version of caber) while simultaneously running the Aqua dex. Initial dosing was 0.5 mg 2x per week with my test shots. I've been slowly backing the dose of each of those down, I'm taking about 0.25 mg Aqua dex amd just stopped the caber. Still, I'm having the ED issue, big time. I'm back up to 180/week, still 100/80 split.

Could my estrogen or prolactin be too low?? Should I run either the Adex OR the caber but not both? Any ideas?

Also, I've read that test plus Masteron makes a fantastic trt protocol. Thinking about trying this and see if that makes Sarge stand up and do his duty reliably. Also thinking about trying trestolone (MENT? Right?) having just done a little reading on it.

Any thoughts appreciated.

So far I knowbthat varying my estrodiol level does NOT solve the ED problem, I was at my best doing 175 a week test with NO AI at all, amd then again at 180 a week and a small amout of Adex. Caber didn't help me at all, at least not along side the Adex.

Let's hear it, boys, I need to solve this.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Emw, u not alone! Estrogen to testosterone ratio I have found is important. Test to low limp dick before I can cum. Test too high it will start again.
Try this formula divide total testosterone by 20 and then total again by 14. Both those numbers will give u a high and low range of estrogen to match. (Best ratio). Alot of guys are not like u and I and claim they are better with the normal reference range no matter where testosterone is.
U asked so I will tell u what I do. Look for things that lower shbg. I have used blue gene supplement and they also have one blue gene up but this one has yohimbine which can give u jitters but also works for ed. I have had good luck with these. Another one that works well for me is arimistane it balances something out even helps with water, acne, and Ed. Avena sativa (anenacosides a&b)
These are just some off top of my head stano (3b-hydroxy) and other dht precursors. But proviron does wonders. I get acne when fluctuations go up or down. I typically get 1000 total test on 100mg per week and I take letro .25 three days a week. I always pin dose split on Monday and on Thursday. To be honest I usually stay on about 200 week except for dr levels I cut 4 weeks before. I do better this way. I always take regular script stuff correct but add a little from a trusted place and never use for good bloods.
Cortisol also is a big factor with Ed. Arimistane has work for me with this as well. The stuff works it's harmless cause my bloods are good and been taking for years off and on if I can always afford would take always. Phosphatidylserine is a good one for cortisol too.
H.A.F. Black is a supplement that has both arimistane and phosphat. Yall can laugh they work good for me!

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Masterone may help but in higher doses can affect cholesterol. Proviron is almost like oral mast but not as but on cholesterol and not hard on liver. It also lowers shbg. A dose of 25-50 proviron usually works. The mast will cost u more and have to use higher than 350 week to see results and have to be under 8-9% body fat or will not see what it does. Don't know dose for added other effects

 

[Muscle mechanic]

One other thing I do is slowly drop ai completely on cruise dose if I up testosterone i will do letro .25 3 days weeks sometimes even only two. Instead of using more I add the arimistane. Then I go from there if I know estrogen went up cause test did and the boners are gone I up letro a drop at a time. Sometimes I have to do it daily depending how high test I am doing like (750) for example but once out woods with water and acne taper it down when I have to are lower test. My gauge is water, acne, not sleeping good, limp dick but before that no boners at night. I took nolvadren by Mann. the supplement other month or so and had intense hardons just laying in bed. Lol. Seriously it works for me for this. When all else fails those penis rings to keep u hard as long as u get it up. It stops blood from escaping. I have done all this and still do. I will shut up now but I have experimented with all this for a long time. I use the gauge mentioned for estrogen I haven't tested it in years. Be patient with adjustments it takes a week or so. Cialis works better for me than viagra.

 

[EMW14]

Mechanic, thanks for your input. I'm going to have to reread all of that a few times fo rit all to sink in. For now, my only comments are that the only thing I get from Cialis is wicked heartburn - and still have a wet noodle I've tried all the various boner drugs out there including Stendra and another one that starts with "L", I think (Levitra maybe?) and Viagra is the only thing that works for me.

I've tried Proviron but suspect it may have been bunk . I may have to give that a try again, from a different source.

I knew I'd get some useful input if I asked about this here!

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Emw, the supplements I mentioned really do work and help. Things the reduce or bind to sbhg really help for me. Also alot of the things that reduce cortisol. All those things work to favor your testosterone to estrogen ratio. Arimistane is a supplement it works for me. People are skeptical about it controlling their estrogen. No reason to be have your AI on hand or use to together with ai are lower dose. Arimistane will improve ratios similar to masteron or proviron, it reduces estrogen by natural levels just as how u can't crash estrogen with mast or proviron, not by the way they work. Instead of spending on estrogen test that is cheapest female panel are not sensitive enough for the kind that effect men the most, i go the route mentioned. If u know where estrogen is. Divide total testosterone by 20. Write it down. Then total testosterone again by 14. Those two are high and low for estrogen favorable ratio. I found this digging about this issue years ago. I use what I mentioned and I have used shit out of deca and tren and never needed a dopamine antagonist, I use method mentioned above. I have heard too many besides myself say if estrogen is controlled prolactin is harmless because they need each other you cause a problem. I have to say alot of people I do not believe run check estrogen as often as claim and to have to keep it between 15-40 I would have gotten into trouble long ago. We all I hope know if u go under 10 for too long u will have poor health and lipids will be worse than 150 mg drol a day with winny.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

This is something else very important to keep in mind. On trt even if blasting and cruising we will never go to such a low testosterone to estrogen ratio to have problems like pcting. Especially if we taper when we were aromatasing. Taper back to lowering testosterone when aromatasing. If u don't plan on blasting and u stuck on 140 mg of testosterone per week and sex drive or wood not working investigate Sbhg and free testosterone.

 

[EMW14]

Mechanic, thx for your experience on this.

I don't think estrogen is my problem, because I've had it all over the place at different times with similar test levels and it never seemed to make any difference. I think it must be something else, but don't know what. Maybe it's cortisol, as you mentioned.

I'm going to taper off the AI first, amd see where that lands me. I'll add the AI back in minimally to control acne. If tje "wood" doesn't improve, I'll try out some of the things you mentioned, one at a time, ao I can tell what does what.

Like I said before, I was in really good shape at 180 mg a week with a small AI dose, and previous to that was in good shape at 175 a week without am AI at all. I'm now at 180 a week and can't get it right no matter what I've tried!

So, like I said, I'll back off the AI and see where I end up, then start trying your suggestions.

If I could figure out what tje fuck is going on amd how to deal with it I might do a mild blast every mow and then. Right now I have so much trouble getting back to normal function I'm afraid to fuck with anything else!

 

[Presser]

First some background to put this in context:

I've been on TRT for about 4 years, now, maybe a little less, maybe 3-1/2. I'm 47. What led me to TRT in the first place was E.D. Erectile Dysfunction. Couldn't get it up with any kind of reliability. Other symptoms as well, which I didn't realize I had until I started on TRT and they went away. No need to get into any of that any deeper for the purpose of this discussion.

Have you been able to get in there deeper since fixing the issue? Sorry I couldn't resist, lol, and yes I know, Im no fucking help lmao

 

[EMW14]

Have you been able to get in there deeper since fixing the issue? Sorry I couldn't resist, lol, and yes I know, Im no fucking help lmao

LMAO Presser you're an asshole, but you're funny!! LOL!

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Mechanic, thx for your experience on this.

I don't think estrogen is my problem, because I've had it all over the place at different times with similar test levels and it never seemed to make any difference. I think it must be something else, but don't know what. Maybe it's cortisol, as you mentioned.

I'm going to taper off the AI first, amd see where that lands me. I'll add the AI back in minimally to control acne. If tje "wood" doesn't improve, I'll try out some of the things you mentioned, one at a time, ao I can tell what does what.

Like I said before, I was in really good shape at 180 mg a week with a small AI dose, and previous to that was in good shape at 175 a week without am AI at all. I'm now at 180 a week and can't get it right no matter what I've tried!

So, like I said, I'll back off the AI and see where I end up, then start trying your suggestions.

If I could figure out what tje fuck is going on amd how to deal with it I might do a mild blast every mow and then. Right now I have so much trouble getting back to normal function I'm afraid to fuck with anything else!

I take doesn't hurt to lower cortisol with a supplement building muscle we wanna do this. Also sex hem binding glob can really affect free testosterone, sex drive, man function and so forth. That is way other things that bind to it free up more testosterone. Even stacking mast or proviron with testosterone. This is also reason ment aka trest gives such a high sex drive because it doesn't bind to sbhg. I really believe cortisol is your problems u mentioned before u work days and nights that will affect the normal times cortisol are supposed to be elevated. One other thing I have heard causing problems is dhea. The claim of testicular failure or shut down fron trt can cause problems without hcg. I never used hcg and don't plan on it. From what u have stated, I would take phosphatidylserine combined with arimistane and give that 2 weeks or so. It doesn't hurt to take 24/7 if one trt. I will be looking for u to post your solution or what works for u. I have sa new issue often and for me I do things mentioned. Gooder luck!

 

[Muscle mechanic]

The arimistane I am talking about is androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-done. Another cortisol inhibitor is 7-hydroxy-17b-dihydro-dihydroeipandrosterone and 7-hydroxyeipandrostetone.
3-beta-hydroxyetioallocholan 17 one
11-keto testosterone is good too

 

[EMW14]

I will look for the things you mention. Did some looking already at arimistane and tje Blue Gene supplement you mentioned earlier.

A question: if you're right, amd cortisol is causing this, why do you think it sometimes isn't a problem? In the past, what I've done is skip my test shots for a week or two, let my level drop, and then "sneak back up" on it slowly. Any idea why the cortisol might not be a problem sometimes but is other times?

 

[Muscle mechanic]

I know with myself stress all together increases my cortisol. Worry not getting enough sleep not in a regular sleeping routine, exercise and consistent weight lifting even not enough carbs. Then fluctuations in hormones. Having hormone problems, trt isn't exactly our normal pulses of testosterone. What makes me think it's cortisol is because u staying pretty consistent and not ramping up your doses and blasting right now. I have same issue alot and it hasn't been estrogen. U stay pretty lean and exercise regular. I believe cortisol raises sbhg and sbhg doesn't bind to cortisol. Both of these two things are safe to lower with supplements, less caffeine which also =less cortisol. Both of these two things affect testosterone, estrogen, dht. These ratios I have found are important. If your sbhg is high your test will covert to more estrogen even if u taking an ai it will just allow for more to convert and still be inhibited and more sbhg will still bind to testosterone and dht. Your free testosterone will go down. Regardless of where we come in on test on that test day. I only use test for signs of health. Liver, cholesterol, prostate, cbc because I feel better at higher dose of test than protocol.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

It's the blue up that I used. Not the blue gene.

 

[EMW14]

I know with myself stress all together increases my cortisol. Worry not getting enough sleep not in a regular sleeping routine, exercise and consistent weight lifting even not enough carbs. Then fluctuations in hormones. Having hormone problems, trt isn't exactly our normal pulses of testosterone. What makes me think it's cortisol is because u staying pretty consistent and not ramping up your doses and blasting right now. I have same issue alot and it hasn't been estrogen. U stay pretty lean and exercise regular. I believe cortisol raises sbhg and sbhg doesn't bind to cortisol. Both of these two things are safe to lower with supplements, less caffeine which also =less cortisol. Both of these two things affect testosterone, estrogen, dht. These ratios I have found are important. If your sbhg is high your test will covert to more estrogen even if u taking an ai it will just allow for more to convert and still be inhibited and more sbhg will still bind to testosterone and dht. Your free testosterone will go down. Regardless of where we come in on test on that test day. I only use test for signs of health. Liver, cholesterol, prostate, cbc because I feel better at higher dose of test than protocol.

Interesting.... Ok, well I'll give the cortisol angle a try amd see what happens. I also drink a fair amount of coffee, sometimes more than others, but occasionally on nights as many as 5 cups. That isn't normal, but 3 cups is definitely common and sometimes 4.

I'll have to look through my bloodwork and see if any of it includes shbg and or cortisol. I don't think so. Worth a look, though.

- - - Updated - - -

It's the blue up that I used. Not the blue gene.

Blue up, ok, I'll look that up, too.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Look at your free testosterone. That will be the ratio unbound to sbhg. Also their is one other formula for estrogen to free testosterone. This will tell u if your sbhg is too high for your estrogen. These two need to be close to even if I am not mistaken

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Wish this thread would've gotten more Posts. This is a great topic and solving this or having input on different factors that caused it for other would give us more to go on or look into.

Emw, I wanted to add that 9 times out of 10 this problem only happens to me in the morning and sometimes during day. It very ever did at night. With cortisol and how it works normally, that is how I tracked my issue down to it. Level at a given time again will only be valuable if we were lacking it or having fatigue and no energy.
I have found supplements that lower help my ratios and trust me they won't interfere with any cortisol your body needs. If anything they will save your adrenal system to not burn out, able it to convert other hormones that cortisol conversion steals, and when cortisol is really needed and not just over converting and staying circulating our tank won't be half empty.

 

[EMW14]

Mechanic, to tell the truth, it seems most guys don't have thus issue. I've gotten responses like, "You're impotent on testosterone? I can't believe it!" So I think it's incomprehensible to most guys.

If there's one thing I've learned, it's that everyone's body responds differently. Or at least MAY respond differently. There is no such thing as an absolute when it comes to this shit.

I'm pretty interested in trestolone based on what I've read about it here on MC and elsewhere. What I don't like about it is the acetate ester; I already pin 2x a week with cyp; I have no interest at all in sticking myself every day or eod. I may try it anyway to see what happens. What I'm unsure of is, if I do try trest, should I drop the test cyp or keep it.

I am going to try cortisol control and see what happens. I'm also going to review my bloodwork (I have every test result since I've been on TRT, but many of them were only test and estrodiol so won't be helpful with cortisol). I don't know if cortisol was checked in the more comprehensive workups or not. I never knew to look for it.

Right now I'm holding steady at 180 per week. I've slowly backed off the ai and I know my estrogen is coming up because I'm starting to get acne. As far as "wood" goes, I feel like I'm moving in the right direction but still a long ways from "good". I've dropped the anti-p completely as of a week ago after backing down off that slowly as well. I am tempted to fuck with my test dose, but am resisting the urge sobthat I'm only changing one thing at a time (well, 2 in this case, dropping the anti-p and reducing the ai).

Hopefully the slow reduction in doses of the anti-p will avoid the rebound effect.

I wish I could do my own bloodwork or walk into labcorp or wherever and just ask for it. Stumbling around in the dark like this is frustrating. But then again, none of the docs I've seen have been all that helpful in solving the issue, either. They're either in the dark as well, misinformed (and extremely confident in their misinformation), or content to write a script for viagra and send me on my way.

What's so damned frustrating is, since I have periods when all is well, I know goddamned well there's a solution, some combination of factors that is perfect. But I don't know what that combination is! I've only ever happened on it apparently by mistake! And so far, every time I think I've figured it out, I've been wrong.

 

[Muscle mechanic]

Any lab tests now. We have these around home, they do just that. Another place online u can get ordered thru them.

Cortisol is most accurate thru saliva. I never tested. I tried arimistane and phosphatidylserine and it works. I take on and off as needed. Letro .25 three days week on trt dose. I adjust on blast. Also a blast always works at least for 6 weeks and I always adjust my letro according and still I throw in those two the combo and good again or if I bump up test more anything to counter the increased cortisol and sbhg.

Try the combo in a week u will know maybe two days.
Frustrating I know, thinking about it and doubting yourself is worse. I go turn on a sexy woman masturbating porn and see if it works make sure get confidence back.
That sometimes is all it is, and will f--k with your head.
My wife gets upset and hurt thinks it's her. So it sucks then she has complex and doesn't want it as much when I have ED and can't finish.

Trestolone gives sex drive strong because it doesn't bind to sbhg. It also converts into a much more potent estrogen than other steroids.
Hit a blast of testosterone instead 500 week will add in sex drive libido and no ED at least not for 6 weeks or so. U can do two things then. Stop blast take cortisol lowering with arimistane adjust your ai as needed or continue blast and take the same stuff. Either way works for me. Test is easier to combat sides than trest. Another things is test acetate or prop is good and works fast. A blast of these will also tell u if your problems are ratios because they all lower sbhg and cortisol but make estrogen go up. Our body tries to combat too much testosterone with these other hormones. Some, test lowers at first but they rise to combat or balance. Some have structure that can't convert aromatase but our body recognizes them all as more testosterone it can't tell the difference even though they may not bind to sbhg or convert estro or turn to dht.

My trt doesnt make me feel as good as more testosterone. Ostarine is supposed to help libido by freeing up more testosterone as well. I like it too