Ive read many posts about shit loading and people giving advice on what to do, and when to do it. Ive known of this technique for a year know and didnt do it last when i competed because it was my first time and i was too cautios. Anyway what i have had trouble finding is any explanations of how this method works. Various people have accounted that it makes you look fuller and drier, and more vascular if you do it right. Dont get me wrong im not trying to argue it doesnt because im sure it does and would like to try it this year when i compete. But just for my own knowledge and curiosity could someone give me some sort of scientific explanantion of to how this method works and how it effects your body. Ive heard of explanations such as your body being really sensitive from the carb depletion etc., but im looking for a more detailed account of the physiological effects on your body. Im not asking for actual scientific evidence from studies, just peoples theories based on their knowledge of how this method works. Thanks!!
rationale behind sh*t load
- Thread starter usman
- Start date
WWM/PUMPED
New member
everybody says I am crazy for trying it on my first show but what the hell I think it will work better than standerd carb loading.
BiggerStronger
Member
I would imagine that the shitload helps you maintain muscle mass or perhaps even build more muscle mass by carb loading once per week or however its done.
It doesn't make you flat or fatter because you're cycling the carb loads and all carbs are used for refueling your muscle cells with none being converted to fat. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why it works, but I'm just taking a guess at it.
It doesn't make you flat or fatter because you're cycling the carb loads and all carbs are used for refueling your muscle cells with none being converted to fat. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons why it works, but I'm just taking a guess at it.
VA MadDog
New member
I'm just a shitloader in training, but I have done a trial run and plan to use this strategy in three weeks for my contest. I'll try to give you my understanding of how the process works and Skip can correct me where I'm wrong when he has time to chime in. He is the Shitloading guru... and I can tell you that he does a very good job of walking you through the strategy if you ask for his help.
The strategy is based on the fact that so many guys had the experience of being fuller and more ripped looking the morning AFTER thier contest. Why? Probably because they had eaten a "shitload" of carbs and fats either after pre-juding or after the nightime show.
So the trick was to figure out how to make this desired affect - being fuller, harder, more vascular and ripped happen ON the morning of the show instead of the day after.
Many guys, myself included, struggle with getting the traditional carb loading strategy right. Seems like you either take in too many carbs or too few or that you don't get the water manipulation right and in the end missed hitting your peak. With shitloading the main carb up process is sort of compressed at the very end and combined with proper carb depletion prior to the loading and careful water manipulation. If done right - you will be very depleted and over hydrated then switch to consuming large amounts of high GI carbs at the same time that you drastically reduce water intake. The combination of all this has the newly injested high GI carbs looking for water to combine with as they are sucked into your carb depleted muscles. Thus the muscles fill out and subqutaneous water is drawn into the muscles with the carbs causing the now fuller muscles to look even harder due to the "thin" dryer skin. And presto chango - you hit your peak just right for prejudging.
The principals are pretty basic but the timing is very important and can vary for each person, thus the importance of doing a shit loading trial run 3-4 weeks before your contest. Trick is that you have to be lean enough 3-4 weeks out to see how it works for you, but if you are you will get a pretty good idea and build confidence in the strategy.
WWM/Pumped I hope that you have a trial run planned, I know that I would have freaked out on the day before the contest if that was the first time that I had ever tried this. So in my book it works based on my experience with the trial run, and it will work even better the final week when you do all of the other things that you do in order to hit your peak right. Hope that helps you understand the theory behind it.
The strategy is based on the fact that so many guys had the experience of being fuller and more ripped looking the morning AFTER thier contest. Why? Probably because they had eaten a "shitload" of carbs and fats either after pre-juding or after the nightime show.
So the trick was to figure out how to make this desired affect - being fuller, harder, more vascular and ripped happen ON the morning of the show instead of the day after.
Many guys, myself included, struggle with getting the traditional carb loading strategy right. Seems like you either take in too many carbs or too few or that you don't get the water manipulation right and in the end missed hitting your peak. With shitloading the main carb up process is sort of compressed at the very end and combined with proper carb depletion prior to the loading and careful water manipulation. If done right - you will be very depleted and over hydrated then switch to consuming large amounts of high GI carbs at the same time that you drastically reduce water intake. The combination of all this has the newly injested high GI carbs looking for water to combine with as they are sucked into your carb depleted muscles. Thus the muscles fill out and subqutaneous water is drawn into the muscles with the carbs causing the now fuller muscles to look even harder due to the "thin" dryer skin. And presto chango - you hit your peak just right for prejudging.
The principals are pretty basic but the timing is very important and can vary for each person, thus the importance of doing a shit loading trial run 3-4 weeks before your contest. Trick is that you have to be lean enough 3-4 weeks out to see how it works for you, but if you are you will get a pretty good idea and build confidence in the strategy.
WWM/Pumped I hope that you have a trial run planned, I know that I would have freaked out on the day before the contest if that was the first time that I had ever tried this. So in my book it works based on my experience with the trial run, and it will work even better the final week when you do all of the other things that you do in order to hit your peak right. Hope that helps you understand the theory behind it.
I worked with Skip for my last show and we did the "Shitload" It was probably the best that I ever looked and I won the State Championships with it. I would Highly suggest that you work with Skip on it for a show, so he can stear you in the right direction.
The reason that I wanted to use it was not so much to make sure that I was more full or more dry, as I think Skip will be the first to tell you that you do not achieve 100% fullness with this program.
My problem had always been spilling over and looking soft (either from too many carbs or too much water) With the Shitload I only had one variable to juggle, Carbs. The water stayed at 3 gallons throughout the entire week, including Friday. Since you are so depleted and dry from the diet and training during the week, there is no way to spill over before the contest. I started caring up at 6pm (which in hind site was a little late, I could have benefited from some more carbs) From 6pm until 6 am the next morning I ate 1500 grams of carbs. did not spill over, like I said, could have benefited from eatting even more. By the night show, I had filled out even more.
The only problem that I found, ands was able to correct in time, was since you are basically only taking in 50 grams of carbs everyday all week, you need to get yourself a good Fiber supplement to stay normal. Also, once you start carbing up, you may need a supplement to control the bloat (gas). It all depends on how your gastro. system is. I have some problems making such radical switches when it comes to digestion. But, like I said, if you see these problems arising, there are supplements to take.
Try it on your own, but it is well worth what Skip charges to have him walk you through it the week before the show
JMO
SJR
The reason that I wanted to use it was not so much to make sure that I was more full or more dry, as I think Skip will be the first to tell you that you do not achieve 100% fullness with this program.
My problem had always been spilling over and looking soft (either from too many carbs or too much water) With the Shitload I only had one variable to juggle, Carbs. The water stayed at 3 gallons throughout the entire week, including Friday. Since you are so depleted and dry from the diet and training during the week, there is no way to spill over before the contest. I started caring up at 6pm (which in hind site was a little late, I could have benefited from some more carbs) From 6pm until 6 am the next morning I ate 1500 grams of carbs. did not spill over, like I said, could have benefited from eatting even more. By the night show, I had filled out even more.
The only problem that I found, ands was able to correct in time, was since you are basically only taking in 50 grams of carbs everyday all week, you need to get yourself a good Fiber supplement to stay normal. Also, once you start carbing up, you may need a supplement to control the bloat (gas). It all depends on how your gastro. system is. I have some problems making such radical switches when it comes to digestion. But, like I said, if you see these problems arising, there are supplements to take.
Try it on your own, but it is well worth what Skip charges to have him walk you through it the week before the show
JMO
SJR
Thanks for the input, as you stated that you tried this method becuae you always had problems with spilling over. During my contest prep for both shows last year I used the traditional carb up over three days, and the sodium deplete. I feel my body reacted really well with the sodium deplete and not so well from the carb up. The only changes I noticed duirng the last three days is that every day my physique was getting drier and tighter, this was even noticable on the wednesday evening on the first day of my carb up. On the day of the show on bothg occasions I actually lost weight about 4 pounds, and also my waist had reduced an inch over the three period. But as for looking fuller this did not happen and getting a pump backstage was harder than normal. So the question I have based on this do you think that I should stick with the tradional carb up over three days and simply consume more carbs. Or do you think it would be wise to do the traditional carb up as well as the shit load on the night before the show, or early on the day of the show. What I really want to do this year is to try and come in looking fuller and not flat like i did last year.
LA
New member
I too was puzzled by the "shitload" as Skip calls it or a "fatload". I came across a blurb about it in some BBing nutrition book.
Basically the logic behind it or why it works has 2 elements. 1st, people tend to spill over from a carb-load due to the rapid and high rise in insulin. By adding fat it slows the insulin response thus giving the carbs the time to enter the muscles instead of being shuttled off to fat as well. 2nd, the fat that is ingested goes to replacing fat that was dieted off. The first fat that comes back is the inter-muscle fat, not the fat under the skln. Thus the muscles appear bigger.
Still would like to see a Skip comment here. So bumping for Skip!
Basically the logic behind it or why it works has 2 elements. 1st, people tend to spill over from a carb-load due to the rapid and high rise in insulin. By adding fat it slows the insulin response thus giving the carbs the time to enter the muscles instead of being shuttled off to fat as well. 2nd, the fat that is ingested goes to replacing fat that was dieted off. The first fat that comes back is the inter-muscle fat, not the fat under the skln. Thus the muscles appear bigger.
Still would like to see a Skip comment here. So bumping for Skip!
Skip
Banana
Hmmm.... I just got back from vacation and after getting caught up with clients, saw this post. Quite frankly, I must have explained this quite well to at least a few of you because I don't see much to add. lol
I suppose my only comment would be that I hate the term 'spillover' as I don't believe in it. It is all a water game in my opinion.
Just my opinion but........
Skip
I suppose my only comment would be that I hate the term 'spillover' as I don't believe in it. It is all a water game in my opinion.
Just my opinion but........
Skip
Thanks for all the advice ive received, however i also have another question based on what skip stated on 'spill over' and all being a water game. From what i understand once you cut your water intake out proir judging and have already acheived the sodium potassium shift, well most of it. How could intake of excess carbs in a shitload cause a spill over interms of excess subcuteanous water, the only thing that i think could cause this is the intake of sodium from those foods (donuts etc.). So in thoery if one was to shitload using dry high glycemic carbs and fats that contained no sodium this would cause no spill over, (For example no salt rice cakes which have about 0.01 g sodium perpack i think, covered in honey and full fat fresh cream.) Or am i wrong and the the intake of excess carbs itself would cause a spill over. Any input would be great based on peoples opinions and personal experiance.
JonnyO
New member
Sodium is not EVIL pre-contest. Poeple always seem to think so but you need some to keep the muscles full. I dont undetstand it when people talk about water/sodium loading bec it makes no sense to me.
With the shitload, you WILL take in lots of sodium, cals, fat, carbs etc etc etc...you have cut water and are now loading the fully depleted starving muscles. The food scavenges all subq water and enters the muscles pulling the skin tight and making your muscles hard. Sodium will not be held subq if theres no water. You cant avoid sodium when loading on pizza and burgers/fries. LOL. I personally have to have a few sips of water here and there when SLing, I'm talking only an ounce though maybe every 2 hours.
With the shitload, you WILL take in lots of sodium, cals, fat, carbs etc etc etc...you have cut water and are now loading the fully depleted starving muscles. The food scavenges all subq water and enters the muscles pulling the skin tight and making your muscles hard. Sodium will not be held subq if theres no water. You cant avoid sodium when loading on pizza and burgers/fries. LOL. I personally have to have a few sips of water here and there when SLing, I'm talking only an ounce though maybe every 2 hours.
Skip
Banana
usman said:
I can't speak of the scientific reasons as to why some things work. I am an idiot in that department. However, I do have humble opinions:
The spill over affect is in reference to taking in too many carbs and that makes the cupith run overith, so to speak and all the water 'leaks' out like you overfilled a glass and the water runs all over your pecs and abs instead a table or counter top.
I am saying that you can take in a 'shitload' of carbs (sorry for the pun but it was there) and if you have your water controlled, it ain't gonna matter. In this case, if you take in too many carbs it is simply an excess of calories - much like too much protein or fat.
Yes, there is a point where your glycogen stores are just plain full. However, that doesn't mean that when this happens, that any extra carbs 'spillover' and you become smooth from subq water.
Now, too many carbs and too much WATER will most certainly smooth you out - count on it.
If anyone wants to debate the other side, I am open to hearing it. I doubt I would change my mind but you can try.
Skip
WWM/PUMPED
New member
dont change you mind untill I get to shitload. lol
Skip
Banana
One more thing:
I have been asked several times as to why you would restrict sodium only to put it back in before the show.
When you restrict sodium while moving your water and then add it back in while loading carbs, the sodium is needed FIRST in the muscle and will actually help to pull water INTO the cell. Of course, there is a window of time that will eventually expire and then you will also be holding water subq (now, THAT could be called a legitimate 'spillover'). You just make sure that when the time expires, you are eating Krispy Kreme doughnuts on Sunday morning so it doesn't matter.
Skip
I have been asked several times as to why you would restrict sodium only to put it back in before the show.
When you restrict sodium while moving your water and then add it back in while loading carbs, the sodium is needed FIRST in the muscle and will actually help to pull water INTO the cell. Of course, there is a window of time that will eventually expire and then you will also be holding water subq (now, THAT could be called a legitimate 'spillover'). You just make sure that when the time expires, you are eating Krispy Kreme doughnuts on Sunday morning so it doesn't matter.
Skip
rjsilverback
Banana
when your carb intake is very low, your insulin levels are very low.
In this state, I can eat ANYTHING for about 24 hrs , as my insuline levels rise everything is stored in the muscle. STOP carb(shit) load be fore Slin levels are high enough to start stoing carbs as fat.
In this state, I can eat ANYTHING for about 24 hrs , as my insuline levels rise everything is stored in the muscle. STOP carb(shit) load be fore Slin levels are high enough to start stoing carbs as fat.
Skip
Banana
Insulin will store nutrients in the muscle first, if at all possible. When the muscle no longer needs the nutrients, they will be stored elsewhere. High levels of insulin, either endogenous or exogenous, won't matter. In fact, if anything the higher levels will make the process more efficient.
Skip
Skip
homonunculus
New member
Couple thoughts:
After you've depleted both water and glycogen:
-You have a reservoir for carb's in the muscle. Carb storage as glycogen will further dry you out - the water is now in the cell.
-Sodium eaten w/o water intake (except for what's in the food) will: Draw fluid out of the interstitium and into the vascular space (in the vessels).
In this case, the sodium is fulling up your vascularity, and druying out the interstitial space (under the skin). The carbs are filling up the muscle cells and drying out the interstitial space, as sodium is pulled into the cell (from the subcutaneous space) for transport and tends to stay there to maintain osmotic pressure w/in the cell itself (the cells ahve more water and therefore need more sodium!).
So, for the period of time when you are still able to load carbs (and sodium) into the muscle cell, and you can maintain resonable blood osmolality (sodium levels particularly) b/c you are pulling it from the insterstisium to the blood stream, you can fill up, get vascular and stay dry.
Eventually, the muscle cells fill up, which activates the sodium potassium pump to pump more sodium out of the cell (d/t stretch on the membrane). Also, incoming glucose reaches osmotic euilibrium as the cells are now full and its not being taking out of the the blood (and can settle in the interstitium). Also b/c of the sodium and lack of water, your kidneys start retaining more water due to hormones meant to prevent hypernatremia (high blood sodium) and keep the concentration of sodium under control. This all means that there is more sodium and glucose settleing in the subq space where they can osmotociall pull in water and you "Spill over" under the skin.
So, like y'all know, the key is to deplete water and glycogen, eat carbs w/ sodium and drink no water. Eventually the body will catch up to you, because there is only so much room to put glycogen and sodium in the muscle cells and veins, where it is not under the skin.
Hope this helps, usman.
-Randy
After you've depleted both water and glycogen:
-You have a reservoir for carb's in the muscle. Carb storage as glycogen will further dry you out - the water is now in the cell.
-Sodium eaten w/o water intake (except for what's in the food) will: Draw fluid out of the interstitium and into the vascular space (in the vessels).
In this case, the sodium is fulling up your vascularity, and druying out the interstitial space (under the skin). The carbs are filling up the muscle cells and drying out the interstitial space, as sodium is pulled into the cell (from the subcutaneous space) for transport and tends to stay there to maintain osmotic pressure w/in the cell itself (the cells ahve more water and therefore need more sodium!).
So, for the period of time when you are still able to load carbs (and sodium) into the muscle cell, and you can maintain resonable blood osmolality (sodium levels particularly) b/c you are pulling it from the insterstisium to the blood stream, you can fill up, get vascular and stay dry.
Eventually, the muscle cells fill up, which activates the sodium potassium pump to pump more sodium out of the cell (d/t stretch on the membrane). Also, incoming glucose reaches osmotic euilibrium as the cells are now full and its not being taking out of the the blood (and can settle in the interstitium). Also b/c of the sodium and lack of water, your kidneys start retaining more water due to hormones meant to prevent hypernatremia (high blood sodium) and keep the concentration of sodium under control. This all means that there is more sodium and glucose settleing in the subq space where they can osmotociall pull in water and you "Spill over" under the skin.
So, like y'all know, the key is to deplete water and glycogen, eat carbs w/ sodium and drink no water. Eventually the body will catch up to you, because there is only so much room to put glycogen and sodium in the muscle cells and veins, where it is not under the skin.
Hope this helps, usman.
-Randy
VA MadDog
New member
Hey Homonunculus!
Glad to see you posting here again. You always offer great information and detailed explanations.
I have been following with interest on another board a number of natty BBers who have been leaving water in the last two days and each and every one of them has had great results. All have placed well and some have taken 1st and overalls. I think that there are at least five different people now both men and women. All have continued to manipulate sodium and most have used natural diuretics. Carb up schemes have varied from traditional, to a modified shitload, to what I'd call a moderate carb up mostly on TH and Friday am.
Everyone of these folks has said that they will never go back to dropping water. From thier experiences it would seem that just the carb and sodium manipulation is enough to get the same result. Plus they all claim to feel better, have no issues with cramping and all report "full" and "hard" muscle appearance and feel on Saturday. All of these folks have been very lean going in, which I think is a prerequisit for the manipulation to work.
I have become a believer in the concept and am going to give it a try for my next show. I guess, in a way, they do still drop water intake while they are sleeping on Friday night but that is an 8 hour drop at most. Hope to see you post here more often!
Glad to see you posting here again. You always offer great information and detailed explanations.
I have been following with interest on another board a number of natty BBers who have been leaving water in the last two days and each and every one of them has had great results. All have placed well and some have taken 1st and overalls. I think that there are at least five different people now both men and women. All have continued to manipulate sodium and most have used natural diuretics. Carb up schemes have varied from traditional, to a modified shitload, to what I'd call a moderate carb up mostly on TH and Friday am.
Everyone of these folks has said that they will never go back to dropping water. From thier experiences it would seem that just the carb and sodium manipulation is enough to get the same result. Plus they all claim to feel better, have no issues with cramping and all report "full" and "hard" muscle appearance and feel on Saturday. All of these folks have been very lean going in, which I think is a prerequisit for the manipulation to work.
I have become a believer in the concept and am going to give it a try for my next show. I guess, in a way, they do still drop water intake while they are sleeping on Friday night but that is an 8 hour drop at most. Hope to see you post here more often!
homonunculus
New member
Hey VA!!!
Tell more r.e. what they're doing. Consuming water up until the night before the show and then dropping it?... Sounds familiar... LOL
-R
Tell more r.e. what they're doing. Consuming water up until the night before the show and then dropping it?... Sounds familiar... LOL
-R
homonunculus
New member
Skip, I would think so, too. This is how I've been doing my water for 3-4 years now. JUst basic physiology applied to water metabolism.
-Randy
-Randy
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