scorpiochiq
New member
MaxRep said:
Very good idea. That.... I can definately do. As for graphing my strength every 2 weeks, I really only have 2-ish weeks left of the igf. I can do it weekly.
First Female-Driven IGF-1 Research
- Thread starter scorpiochiq
- Start date
Very good idea. That.... I can definately do. As for graphing my strength every 2 weeks, I really only have 2-ish weeks left of the igf. I can do it weekly.
PRAETORIAN
New member
MaxRep said:
Max, dont get me wrong i agree with what you say in the only true understanding is to record measurements and look for any significant differences. As well like yourself i have been in the game for a long time and still am learning everyday. Yep posted a few times with SJR on CE. SJR looks great and it does appear that he is a non responder or minimal if that..its difficult to say(if not mistaken i think he was using it as a bridge as well). I monitor SC's progress similar to how i monitor other clients and she is on a calorie deficit diet at the moment with carb ups every so often. I know the calorie/carb/protein/fat gram intake as i have created the diet for her. Her protein is high but again she is not really interested in building muscle...mostly reducing bf and retaining the muscle she has...any excess muscle would be considered a bonus. I also monitor and record weights and maximums attained in the gym. As for measurements that is an idea we will try. Just a side note...this is the second time running igf for SC..i also ran 40 mcg/day for 5 days with her the first time and saw nothing...but it was a different source and i was running it as a bridge as well...ie no aas or other ergogens. I will be trying it again this time with aas so we will see what difference that makes. I guess my point is really that if the changes are not dramatic as seen in really good responders, than it is not worth the money. I know if i run a simple cycle of tren, not changing any variables i and others can attest to dramatic changes without resorting to the tape or scale...so that would be what i am looking for. I am still curious to see the end result and we wil add some object measurements to the experiment...hopefully this will shed some more light. Oh and seeing varying anecdotal reports i dont assume everyone makes dramatic gain...as seen by SJR...there are quite a number of non responders...which is sad...and i hope i am not one of them...but they do exist. So i gues what i was trying to say would be either you are a great responder or not...if you fall into the latter than igf is not for you...as the risks far outweigh the benefits.
Peace,
P
SC, Your open-mindedness (is that a word? 
) is a positive testament to you.
Some suggestions:
1. Only use the IGF on days you work out. It looks like you're planning on using it at 50mcg/day for 20 straight days and that can be stretched out a little with modification to your 2/1 WO schedule.
2. I know you have a demanding job but try to eat more, especially protein. Whatever you're eating, do your best to increase it no matter how busy you are.
3. On your days off, especially on the weekends, go crazy with the food. Junk food, good food, whatever you want, eat a lot. Between the IGF and your cardio and weight workouts, I don't think this will hinder your goal of cutting. Remember, the more muscle you have, the more fat you burn.
4. You should be able to get 4 good objective measurements. Now, in one week, in another week which would be the end, and then a final one a week after your IGF cycle ends to capture any possible remaing benefits. If you stretch out your IGF dose to match your 2/1 workout schedule, you can even get 5 measurements.
Good luck,
MaxRep
) is a positive testament to you.Some suggestions:
1. Only use the IGF on days you work out. It looks like you're planning on using it at 50mcg/day for 20 straight days and that can be stretched out a little with modification to your 2/1 WO schedule.
2. I know you have a demanding job but try to eat more, especially protein. Whatever you're eating, do your best to increase it no matter how busy you are.
3. On your days off, especially on the weekends, go crazy with the food. Junk food, good food, whatever you want, eat a lot. Between the IGF and your cardio and weight workouts, I don't think this will hinder your goal of cutting. Remember, the more muscle you have, the more fat you burn.
4. You should be able to get 4 good objective measurements. Now, in one week, in another week which would be the end, and then a final one a week after your IGF cycle ends to capture any possible remaing benefits. If you stretch out your IGF dose to match your 2/1 workout schedule, you can even get 5 measurements.
Good luck,
MaxRep
P, I understand what you're saying and however you guys want to do it is of course, fine.
However, I have no doubt as to why she's not responding.
"she is on a calorie deficit diet at the moment with carb ups every so often."
I have yet to hear of anyone who felt like IGF really worked who was on a calorie deficit diet. I'm sure there are some for whom this may work and I just haven't heard of them. But I sure wouldn't want to do it this way.
Everything I have heard, seen and researched says that a lot of food is necessary for IGF to exert its effects. I recall one scientific study which showed only those rats on a high protein diet had any increase in LBM. The rats on a normal diet didn't gain anything.
I think even your boy BGM said something to the effect of eating everything in sight and still getting more vascular and losing fat, when on IGF.
Good luck,
MaxRep
However, I have no doubt as to why she's not responding.
"she is on a calorie deficit diet at the moment with carb ups every so often."
I have yet to hear of anyone who felt like IGF really worked who was on a calorie deficit diet. I'm sure there are some for whom this may work and I just haven't heard of them. But I sure wouldn't want to do it this way.
Everything I have heard, seen and researched says that a lot of food is necessary for IGF to exert its effects. I recall one scientific study which showed only those rats on a high protein diet had any increase in LBM. The rats on a normal diet didn't gain anything.
I think even your boy BGM said something to the effect of eating everything in sight and still getting more vascular and losing fat, when on IGF.
Good luck,
MaxRep
PRAETORIAN
New member
MaxRep said:
Max, thanks for the info...i also have seen most benefits have been with high calorie diets...thse users also reported large appetites..hunger pains etc....something we both did not find...as i said i will be trying it again with aas and will adhere to your considerations...i will let you know how things go!
Peace,
P
scorpiochiq
New member
MaxRep said:SC, Your open-mindedness (is that a word?
Some suggestions:
1. Only use the IGF on days you work out. It looks like you're planning on using it at 50mcg/day for 20 straight days and that can be stretched out a little with modification to your 2/1 WO schedule.
2. I know you have a demanding job but try to eat more, especially protein. Whatever you're eating, do your best to increase it no matter how busy you are.
3. On your days off, especially on the weekends, go crazy with the food. Junk food, good food, whatever you want, eat a lot. Between the IGF and your cardio and weight workouts, I don't think this will hinder your goal of cutting. Remember, the more muscle you have, the more fat you burn.
4. You should be able to get 4 good objective measurements. Now, in one week, in another week which would be the end, and then a final one a week after your IGF cycle ends to capture any possible remaing benefits. If you stretch out your IGF dose to match your 2/1 workout schedule, you can even get 5 measurements.
Good luck,
MaxRep
Hmmm, well it's not working so far so I am open to new suggestions. I will use it on training days only. As for my caloric intake, it's really not that low. But let's say the IGF is doing, and will continue to do, nothing at all. Wouldn't increasing my calories make me gain weight - unless I double my cardio, which I don't have time to do. Same with weekend refeeds.
.....I will measure tomorrow when I wake up.
Thx for your suggestions,
SC
Hi i thought i would charm in as my goals are similiar to yours scorpiochiq. I to ran igf-1 40mcg staright and shots were done am while on a diet. I also took measurements of weight and tape meausrements on arm, waist, thigh, and calve. Caloric and macronutrient info was also documented, all this info is available in my journal in the journal section. I think you and maxpep are both right, personal reports on how you are feeling can be accurate if the person is honest and unbiased and doesnt let there emotions such as having a bad day cloud thier judgement (i am not refering that you are doing this by the way).
However meausrements and keeping track of them is also important so BOTH are exteremly valuable tools. I have been keeping track of measurements weekly both weight and tape measuremts for about two years now so i know when changes are out of the norm. Therefore if i introduce something new i am able to determine its effect unbaisedly as the results i record speak for themsleves, as i can compare them to changes before taking something new. I can understand your fustration in not seeing anything spectacular from the igf-1 yet, i didnt for the first two weeks and my recordings in my journal speak for themselves. As you are, i also am on a caloric deficit diet, low carbs and high protien, i think on a diet the physical changes probably will be slower to appear on igf-1. I would say hang in their, the igf-1 really took effect in terms of physical changes my third week, chnages in bodyfat were noticable evey few days instaed of by the end of the week. Not to overexagurate though, my last week the third week wasnt totally physique transfoming or anything, but by the end of the week it had looked like the changes in bodyfat i would expect to see after two or three weeks of dieting. Also weight changes on two scales showed only a loss of 1lb, whilst measurements on waist had shown a loss of 1/2 inch. Although this may not sound like much to people to me it was, as my waist was pretty lean any way and towards the end of my diet when i get below 29 inches waist reduction is normally slow and hard. Also results from two diets this year and last year i have never lost that amount off my waist before in a week, especially considering the two reliable scales had shown only 1lb loss. So from this i would say igf-1 definatly does work as my results are unbiased as i did 1. record objective meaurements, and 2. these measurements i recorded i have been taking these for the past two years, which has allowed me to determine solid baseline meausrements. Thus anything new i introduce to my diet i know if it has had a beneificiary effect. However interms of strength i also record everything for every exercise including weight, reps, and duration of workouts again for the past two years. Training ramained the same during igf-1 but i must note thier was no increase in strength nor was there any increase in reps. Strength and reps however were maintanied, but i was maintaining this before igf-1 so i dont think the igf-1 had any impact on my workouts. In addition i agree with maxrep i would do your shots only on workouts or a 5 on 2 off fashion, i wish i had done this as i would love to see what a 4th week could have had.
However meausrements and keeping track of them is also important so BOTH are exteremly valuable tools. I have been keeping track of measurements weekly both weight and tape measuremts for about two years now so i know when changes are out of the norm. Therefore if i introduce something new i am able to determine its effect unbaisedly as the results i record speak for themsleves, as i can compare them to changes before taking something new. I can understand your fustration in not seeing anything spectacular from the igf-1 yet, i didnt for the first two weeks and my recordings in my journal speak for themselves. As you are, i also am on a caloric deficit diet, low carbs and high protien, i think on a diet the physical changes probably will be slower to appear on igf-1. I would say hang in their, the igf-1 really took effect in terms of physical changes my third week, chnages in bodyfat were noticable evey few days instaed of by the end of the week. Not to overexagurate though, my last week the third week wasnt totally physique transfoming or anything, but by the end of the week it had looked like the changes in bodyfat i would expect to see after two or three weeks of dieting. Also weight changes on two scales showed only a loss of 1lb, whilst measurements on waist had shown a loss of 1/2 inch. Although this may not sound like much to people to me it was, as my waist was pretty lean any way and towards the end of my diet when i get below 29 inches waist reduction is normally slow and hard. Also results from two diets this year and last year i have never lost that amount off my waist before in a week, especially considering the two reliable scales had shown only 1lb loss. So from this i would say igf-1 definatly does work as my results are unbiased as i did 1. record objective meaurements, and 2. these measurements i recorded i have been taking these for the past two years, which has allowed me to determine solid baseline meausrements. Thus anything new i introduce to my diet i know if it has had a beneificiary effect. However interms of strength i also record everything for every exercise including weight, reps, and duration of workouts again for the past two years. Training ramained the same during igf-1 but i must note thier was no increase in strength nor was there any increase in reps. Strength and reps however were maintanied, but i was maintaining this before igf-1 so i dont think the igf-1 had any impact on my workouts. In addition i agree with maxrep i would do your shots only on workouts or a 5 on 2 off fashion, i wish i had done this as i would love to see what a 4th week could have had.
Usman, good job in being so meticulous with your journal. I'm not sure if your 1 pound loss, 1/2" off your waist is something attributable to your diet and training or your IGF intake. I understand you believe it to be the IGF. Wouldn't some reduction be attibuted to your diet and training? What you're describing with no reduction for 2 weeks and then a sudden, large and noticable reduction the third week is something that commonly happens with people who just train and diet. At any rate, very good input. Especially on the validity of both subjective feelings and objective measurements. You may want to start another thread as I don't want to hijack SC's thread here. 
SC, I really believe you need to substantially increase the amount of protein you're taking in. Those extra calories won't be an issue, if anything, they'll allow the IGF to work and you to build a little more muscle and burn more fat. I am also a big believer in the physical and mental benefits of taking one weekend day and eating whatever you want, as much or as little. If anything, what you're doing now is slowing your metabolism and resetting your body's fat burning set-point to a lower level. The high protein daily and one eat everything day will speed up your metabolism and increase your fat burning and with the IGF will increase cells protein synthesis.
MaxRep
SC, I really believe you need to substantially increase the amount of protein you're taking in. Those extra calories won't be an issue, if anything, they'll allow the IGF to work and you to build a little more muscle and burn more fat. I am also a big believer in the physical and mental benefits of taking one weekend day and eating whatever you want, as much or as little. If anything, what you're doing now is slowing your metabolism and resetting your body's fat burning set-point to a lower level. The high protein daily and one eat everything day will speed up your metabolism and increase your fat burning and with the IGF will increase cells protein synthesis.
MaxRep
scorpiochiq
New member
MaxRep said:
Done. Started plan today.
Ok, here's my measurements. I tried to measure as accurately as possible but I did it after my breakfast so I don't know if it's better to do it first thing in the morning when I wake up, and of course, how do you know if you are measuring the exact same spot the next time you do it? With a little room for error, this is what I have:
Stats:
Height 5'3
Weight (TBD)
BF (TBD)
Small-medium frame
Chest (above bustline of course) 34.5 inches
Biceps/Triceps 11.75
Waist 26 - 26.25
Thighs 21.75
Hips/Widest point 33
scorpiochiq
New member
USman, thanks for the info... and the support. I gather you were doing IGF alone? If you did it over again in the same manner would you change/improve anything, other than a 5 on 2 off cycle?
SC
SC
Your right about taking measurements not being that accurate because its hard to measure in the same place again and again. A little tip when measuring waist and all others do first thing before breakfast on a empty stomach. When measuring waist take both meausrements of waist relaxed and tensed. The reason why is because sometimes you can hold your waist in too much when measuring relaxed. So for example my waist tensed is always 0.3 inches smaller then my waist relaxed, so if i measure my waist relaxed my relaxed meausrements 0.2 bigger then my tensed, then i know my relaxed measurements innacurate and ive held my stomach in too much not completely relaxing it, so for example my waist relaxed now is 27.6 inches, and tensed is 27.3 inches. Its not 100% accurate but its better then nothing. In addition when measuring thighs and arms you could meausre at a certain length so your measuring the same spot again and again.
No i didnt use alone, i was doing 1/2 shot sust eod, but had been doing this for the past 4 weeks proir to igf-1, and ran this all through igf-1. Would I have done things different yes, apart from doing 5 on 2 off, i wish i had split dosages up am and pm, because doing all am left me really tired through my workout and during the day. Also i wish i had started off at a lower carb intake and higher protein intake from the first week. Throughout the three weeks i kept my cals the same at about 2800, however every week i got rid of 30-40g carbs and replaced with protein. Also because i was getting ready for a show i couldnt risk increasing cals, but maxreps got a point all the reports ive read that show brilliant gains are people who are eating high cals and high protien. Therefore if i was not dieting for a show where i had a deadline to meet, but just dieting i would try what maxrep and LA are saying and experiment with increasing cals by increasing protien intake and see what happens.
No i didnt use alone, i was doing 1/2 shot sust eod, but had been doing this for the past 4 weeks proir to igf-1, and ran this all through igf-1. Would I have done things different yes, apart from doing 5 on 2 off, i wish i had split dosages up am and pm, because doing all am left me really tired through my workout and during the day. Also i wish i had started off at a lower carb intake and higher protein intake from the first week. Throughout the three weeks i kept my cals the same at about 2800, however every week i got rid of 30-40g carbs and replaced with protein. Also because i was getting ready for a show i couldnt risk increasing cals, but maxreps got a point all the reports ive read that show brilliant gains are people who are eating high cals and high protien. Therefore if i was not dieting for a show where i had a deadline to meet, but just dieting i would try what maxrep and LA are saying and experiment with increasing cals by increasing protien intake and see what happens.
scorpiochiq
New member
Your waist is either really small or mine is really big 
I will try again in the morning, using your suggestions.
I will try again in the morning, using your suggestions.
No i compete currently in the juniors under 21's, currently 21 so this will be my last year in this category than i will have to move up with the big boys. Remember i'm only 5ft 6inch, currently 148lbs. But i do admit im lucky that i have been blessed with a small waist, the lowest ive had it is 27.2 inch, mind you its been at 26.6 inch last year on the day of my second competition due to extracell water loss.
scorpiochiq
New member
Day 10
Hmmm, well I am still experiencing headaches, especially in the morning when I am at the gym. Workouts and strength has been really good with pretty decent pumps. I have put on muscle mass, no doubt, however I have also been working my *ss off. So, who knows what is doing what. As for fat loss, despite the fact I am dieting and working hard I am not dropping at all, and if anything, it's minimal. Which leads me to believe any change is due to the diet and not the IGF. BTW, I re-did my waist measurement this morning and it is 26 inches.
As for the muscle growth - great but without the fat loss I feel like I look bulky. I think I will be able to form a better opinion of IGF come day 14. It's funny that the first 4-5 days were fantastic (pumps and all), then things dropped off. If I did it all over again, I think I may stay on 5 days, then off 5 days, etc. Now I am doing 5 on 2 off.
Hmmm, well I am still experiencing headaches, especially in the morning when I am at the gym. Workouts and strength has been really good with pretty decent pumps. I have put on muscle mass, no doubt, however I have also been working my *ss off. So, who knows what is doing what. As for fat loss, despite the fact I am dieting and working hard I am not dropping at all, and if anything, it's minimal. Which leads me to believe any change is due to the diet and not the IGF. BTW, I re-did my waist measurement this morning and it is 26 inches.
As for the muscle growth - great but without the fat loss I feel like I look bulky. I think I will be able to form a better opinion of IGF come day 14. It's funny that the first 4-5 days were fantastic (pumps and all), then things dropped off. If I did it all over again, I think I may stay on 5 days, then off 5 days, etc. Now I am doing 5 on 2 off.
Keep a positive attitude. You're doing great.
Remember, the mirror plays tricks on you. It is highly unlikely that you've gained even a single pound of pure muscle in such a short time. And since you don't feel like you've lost any fat, there is no way your appearance has really changed much. Therefore, there is no way you are now "bulky", unless you have always been bulky. Which you were not. Your measurements show a fit and shapely figure. 34.5-26-33... I better stop before I get in trouble...
It is possible that the pump and your muscles filling out a little from your hard workouts are giving you a mental feeling of bulkyness. But to an objective observer it's doubtful anything other than that will be noticed.
It's too bad you couldn't have done an electrical or ideally hydrostatic Body Fat measurement at the start and have another one done at the end. I think you would be pleasantly surprised, even though it may only be a drop of a percent or two.
Good luck,
MaxRep
Remember, the mirror plays tricks on you. It is highly unlikely that you've gained even a single pound of pure muscle in such a short time. And since you don't feel like you've lost any fat, there is no way your appearance has really changed much. Therefore, there is no way you are now "bulky", unless you have always been bulky. Which you were not. Your measurements show a fit and shapely figure. 34.5-26-33... I better stop before I get in trouble...
It is possible that the pump and your muscles filling out a little from your hard workouts are giving you a mental feeling of bulkyness. But to an objective observer it's doubtful anything other than that will be noticed.
It's too bad you couldn't have done an electrical or ideally hydrostatic Body Fat measurement at the start and have another one done at the end. I think you would be pleasantly surprised, even though it may only be a drop of a percent or two.
Good luck,
MaxRep
JUST WAIT UNTIL WEEK 4! you are experiencing exactly what i did.i wanted the gains to continue at the rate it was going my first 2 weeks.i doubted the igf-1 just like you are but then out of nowhere people just started turning there heads at me and my girlfriend told me there was a big difference in the way i looked in week 3.then by week 4 when i reevaluated my progress(i.e. strength and appearance) i was just blown away.so give it time.remember it hasnt even been 2 weeks yet! nothing i have ever taken works as fast as igf-1 but even igf-1 takes time to work
later
later
scorpiochiq
New member
MaxRep said:Keep a positive attitude. You're doing great.
Remember, the mirror plays tricks on you. It is highly unlikely that you've gained even a single pound of pure muscle in such a short time. And since you don't feel like you've lost any fat, there is no way your appearance has really changed much. Therefore, there is no way you are now "bulky", unless you have always been bulky. Which you were not. Your measurements show a fit and shapely figure. 34.5-26-33... I better stop before I get in trouble...
It is possible that the pump and your muscles filling out a little from your hard workouts are giving you a mental feeling of bulkyness. But to an objective observer it's doubtful anything other than that will be noticed.
It's too bad you couldn't have done an electrical or ideally hydrostatic Body Fat measurement at the start and have another one done at the end. I think you would be pleasantly surprised, even though it may only be a drop of a percent or two.
Good luck,
MaxRep
First of all, thanks sooo much for the support ... and for making me feel sexy ;-). At the gym I go to we have an electrical body fat measuring device but I happen to know that it is scewed. I have a few friends that are trainers there and they say it is purposely elevated to make ppl thing they are fatter than they are ........ so they will buy personal training sessions. I have been looking for fat calipers but funny enough they aren't easy to find.
I happen to know of another female that started IGF (alone) and its day 4 and she is noticing a huge change (her bf even noticed), extremely fatigued, and extreme hunger --- the same symptoms that 'super responders' felt. Of course I am pretty sure she is comign off a cycle - which means she may still have some residual aas in her system.
Anyways, I haven't lost all hope yet. ;-)
And thx BGMK... I'll try and be more patient
Scorpioquic, I read that your takeing a cocktail of injectable vitamins from your doctor. If you already know then ignore this, but you can get all your b12 and injectable vitamins over the counter in Canada for a fraction of the cost. No prescription fees. Just trying to save you some money.
P.S. thanks for the great thread.
P.S. thanks for the great thread.
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