crank
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Saw a couple threads with people asking about pro hormones. This topic has been covered a lot, but I thought I'd include a big post about them to help answer a lot of common questions. This also has a lot of information that could be applied to regular steroids and can answer some of the more common questions about them.
So Just What Are These Pro Hormones & What Do They Do?
1. What are prohormones?
Prohormones are synthetically manufactured compounds which convert to anabolic hormones via enzymes in the liver; hormone precursors. They are commonly abbreviated as PHs.
2. What are they used for?
Prohormones are used by athletes looking to increase size, strength, endurance, reduce recovery time or add lean body mass. They are most often used for increasing muscle mass or reducing body fat levels. Life extension groups are also increasingly using prohormones as a means of hormone replacement therapy, as an alternative to prescription drug use.
3. Do they have side effects?
Yes. Prohormones can have the same side effects as anabolic steroids, and are dependant upon the user as to which side effects one might experience. Some side effects are acne, hair loss, breast tissue enlargement, and prostate swelling. The potential for these side effects does exist, but it can be reduced if one uses proper precautionary measures (see below). Generally, if a person is genetically predisposed to a side effect it will occur (i.e.: if someone has a history of male pattern baldness in the family, it could be assumed that this could be a side effect experienced if certain prohormones are used)
4. Which prohormones do NOT convert to estrogen?
4 androstenediol (4AD or 4diol) converts to testosterone
19 nor-4-androstenediol (Nordiol or nordiol) converts to nortestosterone or nandrolone
1 androstenediol (1AD) converts to 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone)
1,4 androstenedione and 1,4 androstenediol (1,4andro or Boldione) converts to boldenone and slightly converts to estrogen.
5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT
3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT
3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT
4 hydroxy androstenedione converts to 4 hydroxy testosterone which is an aromatize inhibitor (blocks formation of estrogen)
7-KETO-DHEA does not convert to any active anabolic compounds
Special Note* 1-testosterone (1-test or M1T) is already an active compound and does not need to undergo conversion in the body. It will also not convert to estrogen.
Compounds converting to estrogen (You'll need An Anti-Estrogen While Using These):
5 androstenediol (5AD or 5diol) converts to testosterone at a very low rate and is an estrogen agonist
4 androstenedione (andro) converts to testosterone and estrone (estrogen)
19 nor-4-androstenedione (norandro) converts to nortestosterone and estrogen
DHEA converts to androstenedione and can be converted to all other hormones
Pregnenolone converts to progesterone and can be converted to all other hormones
5. How do prohormones work?
Basically, when they are administered into the system, they are broken down in the liver and converted to their target hormone via certain enzymes. There have been a number of quotes describing how much of the hormone is converted, but there is no definitive answer as to how much of the prohormone is converted into its target active. Once a certain amount is created, the enzymes used for conversion become saturated and no more can be converted. This is true with all the compounds, except for 1-testosterone which really isn’t a prohormone.
6. What do the target hormones do?
Each hormone works in different ways once it is converted, but essentially it attaches to an androgen receptor in the cells of your body. This in turn increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, meaning that your body is in a constant anabolic state (assuming you are continuously supplying your body with the hormone). Here is a brief description of each hormone and what it does.
Testosterone is the primary male hormone responsible for development of the sex organs and muscle growth. Testosterone is both anabolic and androgenic—anabolic meaning it causes muscle growth and androgenic meaning that it causes development of secondary sex characteristics. Testosterone converts to both DHT and estrogen in its parent form. Testosterone is often the primary hormone used on a cycle of steroids. It is a mass builder, and will often help with unwanted androgenic side effects of other steroids. Although conversion to estrogen can cause many unwanted side effects on its own, testosterone should generally be the base to any cycle.
Nandrolone is an anabolic hormone, with not as much androgenic potential. It attaches to the androgen receptor with greater affinity than testosterone, but can cause a loss of libido and generally stays active in the system much longer than does testosterone. This is the “safest” choice for users who want to avoid most common side effects.
DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the primary androgenic hormone in the body. It is responsible for increases in strength, as well as most of the unwanted side effects common with steroids. DHT is converted from testosterone via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT receptors are high in the scale, skin and prostate; high DTH levels are the most common cause of prostate swelling, acne, and male pattern baldness.
Boldenone is a veterinary hormone, which is commercially sold as Equipoise. Equipoise is known as an alternative to nandrolone when using steroids. It provides an increase in appetite, with some fat burning potential. Boldenone converts to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. Those who are looking to avoid some of the stronger androgenic side effects also commonly use it. 1-testosterone is the 5 alpha reduced version of Boldenone.
7. How do I take prohormones?
There are three common routes of administration for prohormones. These are usually based on their efficacy (i.e. how much is absorbed). Since the liver and stomach lining breaks down prohormones rather efficiently, taking them orally is the poorest route of administration. Most users prefer transdermal (topical) administration. When taken this way, you apply it to your skin and it will continue being absorbed over a period of 12 hours or so. Cyclodextrins or sublingual methods are also commonly used, which is where the prohormones are dissolved under the tongue. This also has a high level of absorption and works well. There are also some products on the market which are sold as “intraoral” or “intranasal”. These are meant to be sprayed into the nostril prior to your workout, and are generally only meant as preworkout boosts, not for a cycle of prohormones.
Some manufactures have started selling prohormones in oral form with an ester attached. This, in theory, will allow it to be slowly absorbed for many hours similar to the other methods, but to my knowledge, there have been no studies demonstrating that this method increases bioavailability.
8. What is a cycle? What does stacking mean?
A cycle is generally used to describe a length of time and common dosage when taking prohormones. Stacking means taking more than one prohormone at a time to increase gains or reduce side effects. Common cycle lengths are 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, and 8 weeks. I recommend 4 week cycles, which seem to give the most gains with fewer sides. I would not recommend going beyond 8 weeks.
Common stacks are 4AD and Nordiol, 1AD and 4AD, 1-test and 4AD, etc. You will notice most everything is stacked with 4AD. This is because testosterone gives you a bit more leverage, providing good gains and overall anabolism, with reduced androgenic side effects. Each of the prohormones can be taken alone, or taken together. The choice is yours and should be made from reading this text, and all the user feedback from this board and others. Research, research, research!
9. What is post cycle therapy? (PCT)
Post cycle therapy is raising your natural testosterone levels back up and keep estrogen levels low after your cycle helping you keep your gains. When you add external hormones to your body, your own natural production becomes suppressed. Your body attempts to compensate your endocrine system by stabilizing the other hormones, which results in an increase in estrogen. Once you quit supplying your body with external hormones, your natural testosterone will be low and estrogen will be high. Therefore, anti-estrogens are taken to halt the manufacture of estrogen in the body. This will result in higher testosterone levels, hence making it easier to keep your gains. Post cycle therapy should begin the next day after the prohormones have stopped being taken. Common post cycle therapy drugs are listed below with dosages:
Musclechemistry.com has some of the best Anti-Estrogens you can get. I would highly recommend using them during cycle if you are using a prohormone that converts to estrogen.
Aqua-Dex: The body has a tendency to convert excess testosterone into estrogen (aromatization) which can cause side effects to bodybuilders on heavy steroid or prohormone supplementation. Such estrogenic side effects can include highly sensitive and enlarged nipples (gynecomastia), excessive water retention and skin rashes. Aqua-Dex works by blocking estrogen receptor sites and by doing so eliminates potential gyno side effects. Ingredients similar to: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) - 40mg x 30ml Actual ingredients: Phyto-Estrogen Concentrate - 40mg x 30 ml
Liqua-Clo: What LiquaClo does is to basically signal to the HPTA that there is a severe shortage in the test:estrogen ratio and that in needs to begin production of natural testosterone right away. This helps ensure that you can keep the maximum amount of gains possible from your supplement and training cycle! If you take any of our weight gain supplements, we highly recomend that you use LiquaClo afterward. Ingredients similar to: Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid®) - 50mg x 30ml Actual ingredients: Dihydroxyflavone (Chrysin) - 300mg
Liqua-Clo is one of the best anti-e's to use Post Cycle to help raise your natural test levels back up after a heavy pro hormone cycle.
Liqua-Fem: LiquaFem is one of the most powerful anti-estrogen and aromatase inhibitors available. It is used by men to eliminate water retention and bloating for a more ripped and shredded look. The body has a tendency to convert excess testosterone into estrogen (aromatization) which can cause side effects to bodybuilders on heavy testosterone and prohormone supplementation. Such estrogenic side effects can include highly sensitive and enlarged nipples (gynecomastia), excessive water retention and skin rashes. LiquaFem works by blocking the production of the aromatase enzyme to estrogen and by doing so eliminates much of the bloat that goes with pro-hormone or steroid cycles. The ingredients in LiquaFem have been shown to me even more effective at combating estrogen than those in LiquArim. LiquaFem is great for keeping excess water weight down when you are taking heavy supplements, helps to prevent gyno and enlarged breasts for men and can even be used to help get your natural testosterone levels back up after a supplement cycle, especially used with LiquaClo. Per Milliliter (30ML per Bottle) Ingredients similar to: Letrozole (Femara®) - 2.5mg Actual ingredients: Adrenalinum - 100mg.
6OXO
6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor.
Week 1 – 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
Week 2-3 – 400mg daily
Week 4 – 300mg daily
Formasin/Formastat/Aromazap
Note: 4 hydroxy androstenedione acts as a weak androgen and can cause further suppression of natural testosterone, but can be used post cycle.
Dosages should be 250mg a day for the first two weeks, followed by anywhere from 50-250mg a day for the next two.
Clomid
Clomid is a prescription fertility drug, but is highly available and highly effective at blocking estrogen and increasing LH output. Mostly used Post Cycle to help raise Test Levels.
Day 1 – 300mg
Day 2-11 100mg
Day 11-21 50mg
OR
150mg daily for 2 weeks
100mg daily for 2 weeks
Nolvadex
Nolvadex is also a prescription, which is highly available and blocks estrogen at the receptor.
20mg Every Day if using a prohormone that converts to estrogen.
Is used to prevent gyno and can be used as PCT to raise test levels and keep negative estro effects away.
Other common post cycle favorites to help with recovery include: high doses of flax oil, ZMA, tribulus and an ECA stack coupled with reduced training volume and increased calories (500 or so above maintenance). But, it is very important to use an anti-estrogen for post cycle. I would never recommend not using one unless the cycle length is 2 weeks or less.
10. What dosages should I use?
I would recommend taking the smallest recommended dosage on the label to start with. You can then see how your body reacts, do more research on the net (Here at Musclechemistry.com) and slowly increase your dosage for the next cycle. That is safe and can be very effective. It's better to underdo it than overdo it. You can always increase slowly for next time.
11. Are prohormones legal?
USA - Legal (Will Be Illegal Very Soon, I've Heard Early Jan '05)
Canada - Illegal
India - Prescription Only
12. Who should use prohormones?
Mature adults above the age of 21 looking for increases in lean muscle mass or decreases in bodyfat levels. Most veterans will advise using prohormones after several years of training, to ensure you have a good feel for proper diet, nutrition and supplementation. Using prohormones under the age of 18 is a very bad idea; it can result in the closure of growth plates, thus resulting in permanently stunted growth; it can also result in potentially serious endocrine system problems. Those with potential for or already enlarged prostate or those susceptible to male pattern baldness should not use prohormones; nor should prohormones be used by people with heart conditions, who currently have gynocomastia, or have liver or kidney problems. If you have any doubts, see a doctor before using these compounds.
13. Can I take prohormones along with steroids?
This is a hotly debated subject. Yes, you can – but why? If you have access to steroids, why would you bother with prohormones? Anabolic steroids are already hormones in their current form and require no conversion – hence, they are more powerful, albeit illegal.
The only compound I would say that you could take with any other steroid would be
1-testosterone, which would be an equivalent of Primobolan or Equipose. The only other thing I can think of would be taking 4AD with Fina to reduce side effects. There is more information about this on boards like Anabolicminds or Animal’s board.
14. What are some common side effects of pro hormones and how can you avoid them?
There are certain ancillary compounds available to treat potential side effects of prohormones. Below is a list I compiled which is pretty basic and should help clarify some of the issues of side effects.
Prostate Issues
The prostate is an organ at the neck of the bladder where it joins the urethra. It is responsible for controlling urination and ejaculation. Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate issues, it’s best not to use prohormones, though potentially the use of nordiol might be acceptable.
Herbal treatments:
Saw Palmetto Extract – Usual dosage is 160mg several times daily
Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols – 300mg several times daily
Flax seed oil – anywhere from 5-20 tblspoons daily
Prescription Treatments:
Proscar/Propecia – blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Ineffective with DHT derived hormones (1-test, 1ad, 5aa, etc)
Spironolactone – an anti androgen. Best not used for this, but used topically (more below)
Acne
Acne is very common on prohormone cycles, and can range from mild to moderate. It will go away once post cycle treatment concludes, or within a few weeks of cession of the product. The best way to treat acne is with the soaps available at your local grocery store or pharmacy. Just pick up some Neutrogena or whatever and scrub your face twice a day or use the body wash.
Hair Loss
Hair loss is caused by increased levels of DHT. Since DHT receptors are heavy on the top of the scalp, some people will notice a lot of shedding or a receding hairline on some cycles. There are various treatments for this; the most common is topical Spironolactone available from Nizoralman or Dr. Lee. The 2% will work as a preventative measure, while the 5% will attempt to help grow some hair back. There are also other methods, such as azelaic acid or Nizoral shampoo, but they are not proven to be effective as spiro is.
If you are concerned you are losing your hair and are currently taking something to help prevent it, prohormones are probably not the best idea. If still interested in using prohormones, Nordiol might be the best option available to you.
Gyno
Gynocomastia, or development of the breast tissue, is sometimes common among aromatizing (converting to estrogen) prohormones. The first symptoms are puffy and itchy or swollen nipples. If you start to notice this while on a cycle, you need to start taking Nolvadex immediately. Formasin/Aromazap/Formastat might work, but 6oxo is not going to help this in most cases, so Nolvadex should ALWAYS be on hand for this situation. It is highly available, not very expensive, and not illegal to posses, so there is no reason not to have it. Don’t wait and order some when you start to get the first signs of gyno, because Nolvadex needs to be taken as soon as symptoms of gyno appear. Start taking 40mg a day until the symptoms subside, and you may want to continue to take 10mg the rest of your cycle as precaution.
Liver/Kidney
Prohormones have to pass through your liver in order to convert, no matter what the route of administration, so higher levels of liver enzymes in the blood is common during a cycle. Many steroid users take Milk Thistle and ALA at high doses to combat this, and if you are concerned it would be a good idea to take one or both of these to help that. Problems with kidneys have not been an issue to my knowledge, but steroid users will often also take cranberry juice extract to help with that.
Depression
Some people report mild or moderate depression, especially post cycle when using 6oxo. This can be cured with prescription drugs such as Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc. It can also be fought with herbal supplements such as St Johns Wort, 5-HTP or Sam-E. If you go with the herbal route, St Johns Wort should be 300mg 2-3 times daily, 5-HTP at 100mg several times daily, or 100-200mg of Sam-E once daily. You can combine all three if depression is extreme, otherwise my pick would be St. Johns Wort.
Testicular Atrophy
Many users report testicular shrinkage during a cycle. The testes will come back to full size once you start post cycle. If they do not, then it’s recommended you take Clomid and possibly even HCG to help restore them.
Sleeplessness
Some people report having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep on a cycle. I've heard recommendations to take 1mg to 3mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed time. Some other options are Valerian root, GABA, Tylenol PM or Kava Kava (potentially stressful on the liver).
Zylo's Own Experience:
Personally, I have only used Imovane. Straight up, this shit will knock you on your ass for 8-10 hours easily. You have to get it from your doctor because it is prescription only. Just go talk to him and let him know that you have problems sleeping and he'll probably write you a prescrip for one. This puts me to sleep and just knocks me out cold for 8 hours of SOLID sleep. I love it.
Lethargy
A lot of people report feeling lethargic and I've heard a lot of people stacking 4AD into their prohormone cycle to combat the lethargic effects. This is a particularly common side effect with Methyl-1-Test (M1T). You can also take Caffeine Pills before a workout to help with training. They are also available right here at Musclechemistry.com
15. What kind of training should I use when using prohormones?
Everyone has their own opinion on this, and you should use whatever works for use. Most people put an emphasis on higher volume while using prohormones, and you can add more isolation sets and workout more frequently due to increased recovery time. But don’t overtrain. Just because you’re using prohormones doesn’t mean you need to train daily or twice daily. Also, doing cardio on prohormones is fine. I recommend 2-3 times weekly of 20-30 minutes, if at all. You should have a solid training program in place before you start and have already learned to pack on some muscle the natural way. This will help you maxamize your gains while on pro hormones and teach you a lot about proper dieting.
16. How should I eat when on prohormones?
Try and eat 1-2g of protein per pound of body weight. Try and eat 500-1000 calories above maintenance, or more if bulking. Generally, standard nutrition guidelines should be followed. If cutting, try and eat 10-12 calories per pound of bodyweight, while keeping protein high.
17. Should I take any other supplements while using prohormones?
Hell Yes. Protein, Creatine, Multi-Vitamins, anything you like taking is fine to take along with pro hormones.
18. What are some good manufacturers of prohormone products?
Check out PowerNutrition.net. They have some great supplements and pro hormones and are a lot cheaper than some other places.
19. Can I make my own prohormone transdermal/oral/sublingual?
Yes, there are several companies that offer prohormone powders in bulk such as Kilosports, Beyond a Century and 1fast400. You can buy powders from them and make your own capsules, cyclodextrins or transdermals easily. I have no idea how to make them, but if you can visit Anabolicminds or Avant Labs message boards for a wealth of how-to information. Maybe someone else will be nice and knowledgable enough to fill us in, and I can post the info back up here after
20. Can I inject prohormones?
I Gotta be honest here, I have no friggn' clue how or why you would want to, but I do know it is possible. Maybe someone else can tackle this one. I would NOT recommend a novice user try this though.
21. Is there anything I should know about transdermal (Rubbed into the skin) delivery?
Transdermals should be applied twelve hours apart. It is a good idea to apply them after showering and to rotate application spots daily. Apply lotion to application spots not in use. This is a good way to avoid a rash from the topical, which is a common side effect reported by users. Some prefer to scrub themselves with a luffa or sponge before applying them to remove the first layer of dead skin cells for optimal delivery. It is also a good idea to wear latex gloves when applying, and wash your hands when you are finished to avoid getting the solution into your eyes or other sensitive areas. Keep in mind that high amounts of sweating or getting the area wet too soon after application will wash it off, so it might have to be reapplied if this occurs.
22. Is there anything I should know about oral/liquid delivery?
There are many products on the market with liquid delivery systems. You will need to drink these, and most of them taste badly. Just try and get them down as quickly as possible, or mix with another flavored liquid to help the taste. Also keep in mind that liquid and oral delivery methods are generally less effective. Even if the product is esterfied, it is still a good idea to take it several times daily in small divided doses to ensure saturated blood levels at all times.
23. Is there anything I should know about sublingual (under the tongue) delivery?
Try and let the product dissolve under your tongue and do not eat or drink anything for around 10-20 minutes after you take the product. As with orals, you will need to take it several times daily to maintain blood levels.
24. Which prohormones are best used in a bulking cycle and what kind of gains can I expect?
Most people prefer the combination of 1-test or M1T and 4ad. This is a tried and true stack combination and most people seem to gain the best from it. Adding 1,4andro is also common to increase appetite and may help gains. How much one will gain off a cycle depends on your diet and training but gaining 10lbs in 4 weeks is quite common.
25. Which prohormones are best for a cutting cycle?
Most commonly, people will use non-aromatizing hormones such as 1-test or DHT precursors to act as an anti-catabolic and increase hardness. However, low doses of 4ad may help, and adding 1,4andro can also be beneficial.
If you are looking to cut, you might also want to think of stacking Aqua-Clen with your cycle. It's cheap as hell and very similar to Clenbuterol. People have been getting great results using it.
I found a thread Here on musclechemistry with reviews and personal experiences using Aqua-Clen
26. Is it okay to drink alcohol while taking prohormones?
No, it is a really poor idea to drink while doing bodybuilding/weight lifting in general, but taking them while using prohormones is even worse. Taking large amounts of prohormones, especially orally, can cause increased liver stress. When you add alcohol into the equation it is a potential for disaster. If you have to drink, try to do it moderately and take milk thistle and/or ALA to help combat potential problems. Although, it would be best to avoid it completely.
End.
So Just What Are These Pro Hormones & What Do They Do?
1. What are prohormones?
Prohormones are synthetically manufactured compounds which convert to anabolic hormones via enzymes in the liver; hormone precursors. They are commonly abbreviated as PHs.
2. What are they used for?
Prohormones are used by athletes looking to increase size, strength, endurance, reduce recovery time or add lean body mass. They are most often used for increasing muscle mass or reducing body fat levels. Life extension groups are also increasingly using prohormones as a means of hormone replacement therapy, as an alternative to prescription drug use.
3. Do they have side effects?
Yes. Prohormones can have the same side effects as anabolic steroids, and are dependant upon the user as to which side effects one might experience. Some side effects are acne, hair loss, breast tissue enlargement, and prostate swelling. The potential for these side effects does exist, but it can be reduced if one uses proper precautionary measures (see below). Generally, if a person is genetically predisposed to a side effect it will occur (i.e.: if someone has a history of male pattern baldness in the family, it could be assumed that this could be a side effect experienced if certain prohormones are used)
4. Which prohormones do NOT convert to estrogen?
4 androstenediol (4AD or 4diol) converts to testosterone
19 nor-4-androstenediol (Nordiol or nordiol) converts to nortestosterone or nandrolone
1 androstenediol (1AD) converts to 1-testosterone (dihydroboldenone)
1,4 androstenedione and 1,4 androstenediol (1,4andro or Boldione) converts to boldenone and slightly converts to estrogen.
5 alpha androstenediol (5AA) converts to DHT
3 beta androstenediol (3 beta) converts to DHT
3 alpha androstenediol (3 alpha) converts to DHT
4 hydroxy androstenedione converts to 4 hydroxy testosterone which is an aromatize inhibitor (blocks formation of estrogen)
7-KETO-DHEA does not convert to any active anabolic compounds
Special Note* 1-testosterone (1-test or M1T) is already an active compound and does not need to undergo conversion in the body. It will also not convert to estrogen.
Compounds converting to estrogen (You'll need An Anti-Estrogen While Using These):
5 androstenediol (5AD or 5diol) converts to testosterone at a very low rate and is an estrogen agonist
4 androstenedione (andro) converts to testosterone and estrone (estrogen)
19 nor-4-androstenedione (norandro) converts to nortestosterone and estrogen
DHEA converts to androstenedione and can be converted to all other hormones
Pregnenolone converts to progesterone and can be converted to all other hormones
5. How do prohormones work?
Basically, when they are administered into the system, they are broken down in the liver and converted to their target hormone via certain enzymes. There have been a number of quotes describing how much of the hormone is converted, but there is no definitive answer as to how much of the prohormone is converted into its target active. Once a certain amount is created, the enzymes used for conversion become saturated and no more can be converted. This is true with all the compounds, except for 1-testosterone which really isn’t a prohormone.
6. What do the target hormones do?
Each hormone works in different ways once it is converted, but essentially it attaches to an androgen receptor in the cells of your body. This in turn increases nitrogen retention and protein synthesis, meaning that your body is in a constant anabolic state (assuming you are continuously supplying your body with the hormone). Here is a brief description of each hormone and what it does.
Testosterone is the primary male hormone responsible for development of the sex organs and muscle growth. Testosterone is both anabolic and androgenic—anabolic meaning it causes muscle growth and androgenic meaning that it causes development of secondary sex characteristics. Testosterone converts to both DHT and estrogen in its parent form. Testosterone is often the primary hormone used on a cycle of steroids. It is a mass builder, and will often help with unwanted androgenic side effects of other steroids. Although conversion to estrogen can cause many unwanted side effects on its own, testosterone should generally be the base to any cycle.
Nandrolone is an anabolic hormone, with not as much androgenic potential. It attaches to the androgen receptor with greater affinity than testosterone, but can cause a loss of libido and generally stays active in the system much longer than does testosterone. This is the “safest” choice for users who want to avoid most common side effects.
DHT (dihydrotestosterone) is the primary androgenic hormone in the body. It is responsible for increases in strength, as well as most of the unwanted side effects common with steroids. DHT is converted from testosterone via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. DHT receptors are high in the scale, skin and prostate; high DTH levels are the most common cause of prostate swelling, acne, and male pattern baldness.
Boldenone is a veterinary hormone, which is commercially sold as Equipoise. Equipoise is known as an alternative to nandrolone when using steroids. It provides an increase in appetite, with some fat burning potential. Boldenone converts to estrogen at about half the rate of testosterone. Those who are looking to avoid some of the stronger androgenic side effects also commonly use it. 1-testosterone is the 5 alpha reduced version of Boldenone.
7. How do I take prohormones?
There are three common routes of administration for prohormones. These are usually based on their efficacy (i.e. how much is absorbed). Since the liver and stomach lining breaks down prohormones rather efficiently, taking them orally is the poorest route of administration. Most users prefer transdermal (topical) administration. When taken this way, you apply it to your skin and it will continue being absorbed over a period of 12 hours or so. Cyclodextrins or sublingual methods are also commonly used, which is where the prohormones are dissolved under the tongue. This also has a high level of absorption and works well. There are also some products on the market which are sold as “intraoral” or “intranasal”. These are meant to be sprayed into the nostril prior to your workout, and are generally only meant as preworkout boosts, not for a cycle of prohormones.
Some manufactures have started selling prohormones in oral form with an ester attached. This, in theory, will allow it to be slowly absorbed for many hours similar to the other methods, but to my knowledge, there have been no studies demonstrating that this method increases bioavailability.
8. What is a cycle? What does stacking mean?
A cycle is generally used to describe a length of time and common dosage when taking prohormones. Stacking means taking more than one prohormone at a time to increase gains or reduce side effects. Common cycle lengths are 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 6 weeks, and 8 weeks. I recommend 4 week cycles, which seem to give the most gains with fewer sides. I would not recommend going beyond 8 weeks.
Common stacks are 4AD and Nordiol, 1AD and 4AD, 1-test and 4AD, etc. You will notice most everything is stacked with 4AD. This is because testosterone gives you a bit more leverage, providing good gains and overall anabolism, with reduced androgenic side effects. Each of the prohormones can be taken alone, or taken together. The choice is yours and should be made from reading this text, and all the user feedback from this board and others. Research, research, research!
9. What is post cycle therapy? (PCT)
Post cycle therapy is raising your natural testosterone levels back up and keep estrogen levels low after your cycle helping you keep your gains. When you add external hormones to your body, your own natural production becomes suppressed. Your body attempts to compensate your endocrine system by stabilizing the other hormones, which results in an increase in estrogen. Once you quit supplying your body with external hormones, your natural testosterone will be low and estrogen will be high. Therefore, anti-estrogens are taken to halt the manufacture of estrogen in the body. This will result in higher testosterone levels, hence making it easier to keep your gains. Post cycle therapy should begin the next day after the prohormones have stopped being taken. Common post cycle therapy drugs are listed below with dosages:
Musclechemistry.com has some of the best Anti-Estrogens you can get. I would highly recommend using them during cycle if you are using a prohormone that converts to estrogen.
Aqua-Dex: The body has a tendency to convert excess testosterone into estrogen (aromatization) which can cause side effects to bodybuilders on heavy steroid or prohormone supplementation. Such estrogenic side effects can include highly sensitive and enlarged nipples (gynecomastia), excessive water retention and skin rashes. Aqua-Dex works by blocking estrogen receptor sites and by doing so eliminates potential gyno side effects. Ingredients similar to: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) - 40mg x 30ml Actual ingredients: Phyto-Estrogen Concentrate - 40mg x 30 ml
Liqua-Clo: What LiquaClo does is to basically signal to the HPTA that there is a severe shortage in the test:estrogen ratio and that in needs to begin production of natural testosterone right away. This helps ensure that you can keep the maximum amount of gains possible from your supplement and training cycle! If you take any of our weight gain supplements, we highly recomend that you use LiquaClo afterward. Ingredients similar to: Clomiphene Citrate (Clomid®) - 50mg x 30ml Actual ingredients: Dihydroxyflavone (Chrysin) - 300mg
Liqua-Clo is one of the best anti-e's to use Post Cycle to help raise your natural test levels back up after a heavy pro hormone cycle.
Liqua-Fem: LiquaFem is one of the most powerful anti-estrogen and aromatase inhibitors available. It is used by men to eliminate water retention and bloating for a more ripped and shredded look. The body has a tendency to convert excess testosterone into estrogen (aromatization) which can cause side effects to bodybuilders on heavy testosterone and prohormone supplementation. Such estrogenic side effects can include highly sensitive and enlarged nipples (gynecomastia), excessive water retention and skin rashes. LiquaFem works by blocking the production of the aromatase enzyme to estrogen and by doing so eliminates much of the bloat that goes with pro-hormone or steroid cycles. The ingredients in LiquaFem have been shown to me even more effective at combating estrogen than those in LiquArim. LiquaFem is great for keeping excess water weight down when you are taking heavy supplements, helps to prevent gyno and enlarged breasts for men and can even be used to help get your natural testosterone levels back up after a supplement cycle, especially used with LiquaClo. Per Milliliter (30ML per Bottle) Ingredients similar to: Letrozole (Femara®) - 2.5mg Actual ingredients: Adrenalinum - 100mg.
6OXO
6oxo is an aromatize inhibitor.
Week 1 – 600mg daily in two divided doses, morning and night
Week 2-3 – 400mg daily
Week 4 – 300mg daily
Formasin/Formastat/Aromazap
Note: 4 hydroxy androstenedione acts as a weak androgen and can cause further suppression of natural testosterone, but can be used post cycle.
Dosages should be 250mg a day for the first two weeks, followed by anywhere from 50-250mg a day for the next two.
Clomid
Clomid is a prescription fertility drug, but is highly available and highly effective at blocking estrogen and increasing LH output. Mostly used Post Cycle to help raise Test Levels.
Day 1 – 300mg
Day 2-11 100mg
Day 11-21 50mg
OR
150mg daily for 2 weeks
100mg daily for 2 weeks
Nolvadex
Nolvadex is also a prescription, which is highly available and blocks estrogen at the receptor.
20mg Every Day if using a prohormone that converts to estrogen.
Is used to prevent gyno and can be used as PCT to raise test levels and keep negative estro effects away.
Other common post cycle favorites to help with recovery include: high doses of flax oil, ZMA, tribulus and an ECA stack coupled with reduced training volume and increased calories (500 or so above maintenance). But, it is very important to use an anti-estrogen for post cycle. I would never recommend not using one unless the cycle length is 2 weeks or less.
10. What dosages should I use?
I would recommend taking the smallest recommended dosage on the label to start with. You can then see how your body reacts, do more research on the net (Here at Musclechemistry.com) and slowly increase your dosage for the next cycle. That is safe and can be very effective. It's better to underdo it than overdo it. You can always increase slowly for next time.
11. Are prohormones legal?
USA - Legal (Will Be Illegal Very Soon, I've Heard Early Jan '05)
Canada - Illegal
India - Prescription Only
12. Who should use prohormones?
Mature adults above the age of 21 looking for increases in lean muscle mass or decreases in bodyfat levels. Most veterans will advise using prohormones after several years of training, to ensure you have a good feel for proper diet, nutrition and supplementation. Using prohormones under the age of 18 is a very bad idea; it can result in the closure of growth plates, thus resulting in permanently stunted growth; it can also result in potentially serious endocrine system problems. Those with potential for or already enlarged prostate or those susceptible to male pattern baldness should not use prohormones; nor should prohormones be used by people with heart conditions, who currently have gynocomastia, or have liver or kidney problems. If you have any doubts, see a doctor before using these compounds.
13. Can I take prohormones along with steroids?
This is a hotly debated subject. Yes, you can – but why? If you have access to steroids, why would you bother with prohormones? Anabolic steroids are already hormones in their current form and require no conversion – hence, they are more powerful, albeit illegal.
The only compound I would say that you could take with any other steroid would be
1-testosterone, which would be an equivalent of Primobolan or Equipose. The only other thing I can think of would be taking 4AD with Fina to reduce side effects. There is more information about this on boards like Anabolicminds or Animal’s board.
14. What are some common side effects of pro hormones and how can you avoid them?
There are certain ancillary compounds available to treat potential side effects of prohormones. Below is a list I compiled which is pretty basic and should help clarify some of the issues of side effects.
Prostate Issues
The prostate is an organ at the neck of the bladder where it joins the urethra. It is responsible for controlling urination and ejaculation. Common symptoms of prostate problems are frequent or difficult urination, dribbling when urinating, erection difficulty, and pain in that general area. Either a rise in estrogen or DHT levels from increased testosterone, etc., probably causes this. If you have ongoing prostate issues, it’s best not to use prohormones, though potentially the use of nordiol might be acceptable.
Herbal treatments:
Saw Palmetto Extract – Usual dosage is 160mg several times daily
Beta sisterol or plant phytosterols – 300mg several times daily
Flax seed oil – anywhere from 5-20 tblspoons daily
Prescription Treatments:
Proscar/Propecia – blocks the conversion of testosterone to DHT. Ineffective with DHT derived hormones (1-test, 1ad, 5aa, etc)
Spironolactone – an anti androgen. Best not used for this, but used topically (more below)
Acne
Acne is very common on prohormone cycles, and can range from mild to moderate. It will go away once post cycle treatment concludes, or within a few weeks of cession of the product. The best way to treat acne is with the soaps available at your local grocery store or pharmacy. Just pick up some Neutrogena or whatever and scrub your face twice a day or use the body wash.
Hair Loss
Hair loss is caused by increased levels of DHT. Since DHT receptors are heavy on the top of the scalp, some people will notice a lot of shedding or a receding hairline on some cycles. There are various treatments for this; the most common is topical Spironolactone available from Nizoralman or Dr. Lee. The 2% will work as a preventative measure, while the 5% will attempt to help grow some hair back. There are also other methods, such as azelaic acid or Nizoral shampoo, but they are not proven to be effective as spiro is.
If you are concerned you are losing your hair and are currently taking something to help prevent it, prohormones are probably not the best idea. If still interested in using prohormones, Nordiol might be the best option available to you.
Gyno
Gynocomastia, or development of the breast tissue, is sometimes common among aromatizing (converting to estrogen) prohormones. The first symptoms are puffy and itchy or swollen nipples. If you start to notice this while on a cycle, you need to start taking Nolvadex immediately. Formasin/Aromazap/Formastat might work, but 6oxo is not going to help this in most cases, so Nolvadex should ALWAYS be on hand for this situation. It is highly available, not very expensive, and not illegal to posses, so there is no reason not to have it. Don’t wait and order some when you start to get the first signs of gyno, because Nolvadex needs to be taken as soon as symptoms of gyno appear. Start taking 40mg a day until the symptoms subside, and you may want to continue to take 10mg the rest of your cycle as precaution.
Liver/Kidney
Prohormones have to pass through your liver in order to convert, no matter what the route of administration, so higher levels of liver enzymes in the blood is common during a cycle. Many steroid users take Milk Thistle and ALA at high doses to combat this, and if you are concerned it would be a good idea to take one or both of these to help that. Problems with kidneys have not been an issue to my knowledge, but steroid users will often also take cranberry juice extract to help with that.
Depression
Some people report mild or moderate depression, especially post cycle when using 6oxo. This can be cured with prescription drugs such as Zoloft, Prozac, Paxil, etc. It can also be fought with herbal supplements such as St Johns Wort, 5-HTP or Sam-E. If you go with the herbal route, St Johns Wort should be 300mg 2-3 times daily, 5-HTP at 100mg several times daily, or 100-200mg of Sam-E once daily. You can combine all three if depression is extreme, otherwise my pick would be St. Johns Wort.
Testicular Atrophy
Many users report testicular shrinkage during a cycle. The testes will come back to full size once you start post cycle. If they do not, then it’s recommended you take Clomid and possibly even HCG to help restore them.
Sleeplessness
Some people report having trouble falling asleep or staying asleep on a cycle. I've heard recommendations to take 1mg to 3mg of melatonin 30 minutes before bed time. Some other options are Valerian root, GABA, Tylenol PM or Kava Kava (potentially stressful on the liver).
Zylo's Own Experience:
Personally, I have only used Imovane. Straight up, this shit will knock you on your ass for 8-10 hours easily. You have to get it from your doctor because it is prescription only. Just go talk to him and let him know that you have problems sleeping and he'll probably write you a prescrip for one. This puts me to sleep and just knocks me out cold for 8 hours of SOLID sleep. I love it.
Lethargy
A lot of people report feeling lethargic and I've heard a lot of people stacking 4AD into their prohormone cycle to combat the lethargic effects. This is a particularly common side effect with Methyl-1-Test (M1T). You can also take Caffeine Pills before a workout to help with training. They are also available right here at Musclechemistry.com
15. What kind of training should I use when using prohormones?
Everyone has their own opinion on this, and you should use whatever works for use. Most people put an emphasis on higher volume while using prohormones, and you can add more isolation sets and workout more frequently due to increased recovery time. But don’t overtrain. Just because you’re using prohormones doesn’t mean you need to train daily or twice daily. Also, doing cardio on prohormones is fine. I recommend 2-3 times weekly of 20-30 minutes, if at all. You should have a solid training program in place before you start and have already learned to pack on some muscle the natural way. This will help you maxamize your gains while on pro hormones and teach you a lot about proper dieting.
16. How should I eat when on prohormones?
Try and eat 1-2g of protein per pound of body weight. Try and eat 500-1000 calories above maintenance, or more if bulking. Generally, standard nutrition guidelines should be followed. If cutting, try and eat 10-12 calories per pound of bodyweight, while keeping protein high.
17. Should I take any other supplements while using prohormones?
Hell Yes. Protein, Creatine, Multi-Vitamins, anything you like taking is fine to take along with pro hormones.
18. What are some good manufacturers of prohormone products?
Check out PowerNutrition.net. They have some great supplements and pro hormones and are a lot cheaper than some other places.
19. Can I make my own prohormone transdermal/oral/sublingual?
Yes, there are several companies that offer prohormone powders in bulk such as Kilosports, Beyond a Century and 1fast400. You can buy powders from them and make your own capsules, cyclodextrins or transdermals easily. I have no idea how to make them, but if you can visit Anabolicminds or Avant Labs message boards for a wealth of how-to information. Maybe someone else will be nice and knowledgable enough to fill us in, and I can post the info back up here after
20. Can I inject prohormones?
I Gotta be honest here, I have no friggn' clue how or why you would want to, but I do know it is possible. Maybe someone else can tackle this one. I would NOT recommend a novice user try this though.
21. Is there anything I should know about transdermal (Rubbed into the skin) delivery?
Transdermals should be applied twelve hours apart. It is a good idea to apply them after showering and to rotate application spots daily. Apply lotion to application spots not in use. This is a good way to avoid a rash from the topical, which is a common side effect reported by users. Some prefer to scrub themselves with a luffa or sponge before applying them to remove the first layer of dead skin cells for optimal delivery. It is also a good idea to wear latex gloves when applying, and wash your hands when you are finished to avoid getting the solution into your eyes or other sensitive areas. Keep in mind that high amounts of sweating or getting the area wet too soon after application will wash it off, so it might have to be reapplied if this occurs.
22. Is there anything I should know about oral/liquid delivery?
There are many products on the market with liquid delivery systems. You will need to drink these, and most of them taste badly. Just try and get them down as quickly as possible, or mix with another flavored liquid to help the taste. Also keep in mind that liquid and oral delivery methods are generally less effective. Even if the product is esterfied, it is still a good idea to take it several times daily in small divided doses to ensure saturated blood levels at all times.
23. Is there anything I should know about sublingual (under the tongue) delivery?
Try and let the product dissolve under your tongue and do not eat or drink anything for around 10-20 minutes after you take the product. As with orals, you will need to take it several times daily to maintain blood levels.
24. Which prohormones are best used in a bulking cycle and what kind of gains can I expect?
Most people prefer the combination of 1-test or M1T and 4ad. This is a tried and true stack combination and most people seem to gain the best from it. Adding 1,4andro is also common to increase appetite and may help gains. How much one will gain off a cycle depends on your diet and training but gaining 10lbs in 4 weeks is quite common.
25. Which prohormones are best for a cutting cycle?
Most commonly, people will use non-aromatizing hormones such as 1-test or DHT precursors to act as an anti-catabolic and increase hardness. However, low doses of 4ad may help, and adding 1,4andro can also be beneficial.
If you are looking to cut, you might also want to think of stacking Aqua-Clen with your cycle. It's cheap as hell and very similar to Clenbuterol. People have been getting great results using it.
I found a thread Here on musclechemistry with reviews and personal experiences using Aqua-Clen
26. Is it okay to drink alcohol while taking prohormones?
No, it is a really poor idea to drink while doing bodybuilding/weight lifting in general, but taking them while using prohormones is even worse. Taking large amounts of prohormones, especially orally, can cause increased liver stress. When you add alcohol into the equation it is a potential for disaster. If you have to drink, try to do it moderately and take milk thistle and/or ALA to help combat potential problems. Although, it would be best to avoid it completely.
End.
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