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Thread: Growth Principles for Beginners

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    IFBB PRO, Admin Board Certified DMD Big A's Avatar
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    Default Growth Principles for Beginners



    Arimidex, Letrozole, Clomid, Nolvadex, Caborgoline, Dostinex, Post Cycle Therapy



    igf 1 lr3, igf-1, insulin-like growth factor-1,


    SARM Rad 140 , testolone, sarm s23, Ligandrol, Andarine, Ostarine, Cardarine
    This is a general guide for beginning and intermediate bodybuilders that don't know the principles behind muscle growth yet or are not happy with the results that they are currently getting.

    We will go through training, diet and gear. I will
    tell you the principles behind everything that I
    recommend for you to do, so you can understand why
    certain things happen, so in the future you can fix
    problems yourself.
    Bodybuilding is a very simple and logical endeavour.
    Everything that you do has to be logical. Only logical
    actions will give you results. Every time that you
    come across a new principle, always ask yourself it it
    makes logical sense. If it does not, dump it!

    TRAINING

    Why does a muscle grow? Because it has to adapt. When
    does it have to adapt? When you expose it to something
    that it has not done before. When is something that it
    has not done before? When the muscle is taxed 100%.
    That's 100% effort. What's 100% effort? When you train
    to 100% PHYSICAL, not mental failure. So, to make the
    muscle grow, you have to train with 100% effort
    otherwise, the muscle will not adapt/grow.
    Now, using the above logic, for a set to be beneficial
    to your growth, it needs to be 100% effort. So, a 100%
    effort set of an exercise, will make you grow. Then,
    what is the point to do a second set of that exercise?
    You cannot go more than 100%. The muscle already has
    been taxed by 100% from the first set, so why should
    you do a second one? You will just eat into your
    recovery ability.
    So, you should only do one set to failure per
    exercise. Later on, I will describe the training
    program and how exercises and warm-ups are involved.

    A muscle will not grow until it's recovered. The
    muscle will not begin to recover until the nervous
    system is recovered. It takes roughly 24hours for the
    nervous system to recover from a workout. Only then
    will the muscle begin to recover and grow. So, you
    should never train 2 days in a row. Even if you train
    different bodyparts, you still use the same nervous
    system. You train 2 days in a row, your nervous system
    recovers, but by the time the muscles begin to, you
    train again, so the body has to concentrate again on
    recovering the nervous system.
    A training frequency of 3 days per week (Mon, Wed,
    Fri) is more than enough. Numerous pros, including
    myself, train like this offseason for maximum growth.
    Even if you use streroids, you still have to train
    like this. Steroids increase your recovery ability,
    but they also make you stronger at a quicker rate. The
    extra strength will give you the ability to train
    harder/tear more muscle tissue, so you will need the
    extra recovery that the steroids will give you.

    The following is a great training program that I
    recomend:

    Mon - Chest, Shoulders, Triceps
    * Incline press - warm-up sets, 1 work set
    * Flat flyes - 1 work set
    * Millitary press - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
    * Lateral flyes - 1 work set
    * Rear delt machine - 1 work set
    * Tricep pushdowns - 1 warm-up, 1 work set
    * Lying tricep extensions - 1 work-set

    Wed - Quads, Hams, Calves
    * Squats - warm-ups, 1 work set
    * Leg press - work set
    * Leg extension - work set
    * Leg curl - warm-up, work set
    * Stiff leg deadlift - work set
    * Standing calf raise - work set

    Fri - Abs, Back, Bis
    * Rope crunches - warm up, work set
    * Lat pull down - warm-ups, work set
    * Deadlift - warm-up, work set
    * Bent-over rows - work set
    * Shrugs - work set
    * Standing BB curls - warm up, work set
    * Concentration curl - work set

    You do a lot of warm-ups for your first exercise of
    the day. You do one warm-up for the first exercise of
    each bodypart, only to optimise the firing of te
    neuropathways.
    Let's use chest as an example - if for example your
    max (work set) in the incline press is 3 plates, then
    you do 2 warm-ups with the bar, 2 warm-ups with one
    plate, 1 warm-up with 2 plates and then your work set
    with 3 plates. The work set is a set where you fail at
    about 6 reps. Every workout, you have to do more reps
    or increase the weight in that work set (remember, the
    muscle has to do something that it has not done
    before). So if one work out you fail with 6 reps, the
    following nothing less than 7. When you reach 8 reps,
    the following workout you should do (increase) a
    weight where you can do minimum 4 reps. Then increase
    your reps again every workout until you reach 8 again,
    and so on. Each rep has a tempo of 2-1-1. That is 2
    seconds in the negative, one second in the contraction
    and 1 second in the positive.
    Then, after you fail in the incline press, you move
    straight to flat flyes. You do not need a warmp now
    because your chest is more than warm after you failed
    on presses.
    And that's it for chest. The basic routine stays the
    same. If you want variety, small changes as using DB's
    instead of BB or doing flat presse and incline flyes
    for example, is mor ethan enough variety to keep the
    muscle 'confused'.

    DIET
    VERY simple. Very important that you try to get as
    close to 500g of protein per day. Easiest way to do
    that is to have a whey protein shake in water with
    every meal. Fats and carbs don't matter. Calories
    don't count, macro nutrients (protein, fat, carb) do.
    If you get to add fat on, just cut out the fats and
    keep your carbs bellow 300g/day. That's all it is!
    Very simple, but hard to stick to, so not many people
    get results. On gear, the more protein you eat, the
    more you grow. Is as simple as that. Gear maximises
    protein synthesis.

    GEAR
    You need a testosterone base. 750mg/week is plenty.
    You need an anabolic - deca or Eq at 400mg/week is
    plenty. You need for optimum growth, a good oral like
    d-bol at 30mg/d or A-50 50mg/d.
    You use the test and the anabolic non stop. The oral
    is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Every 6th week (the half
    way point between the off oral period - so 2 weeks
    after you finish the oral) you have a blood test. If
    the blood test is OK, then you can begin your next 4
    weeks on oral. There is no reason for you to come off.
    The only 2 reasons are health or your receptors are
    saturated. If the regular blood test is OK, your
    health is OK. If you are still making progress, your
    receptors are OK. Coming off, will just sabotage your
    gains. That's why I do not believe in set time frames
    for cycles. Listen to your body. When you use the
    oral, you need to use all the liver aids available - Synthergine,
    Milk Thistle, L-methionine, Liv-52, etc. Of course you
    cannot drink or do rec drugs during that time. Using
    these precautions, your blood tests will be OK.
    You also need to use an anti estrogen like Nolvadex at
    10mg/d throughout the whole time. Also, you have a
    choice between HCG every 4 weeks at 5000IU or Clomid
    at 50mg EOD. These will make sure that your balls will
    stay at a decent size and they will not forget how to
    function.
    The blood tests that you need are: full blood count,
    liver and kidney function tests, FSH, LH, TSH,
    cholesterol.
    If the Total protein test in the liver tests is high,
    that is because of your diet. You need to keep an eye
    on the Billirubin and Urea test results. Your FSH and
    LH will be suppressed - that's normal because of the
    gear. If the TSH is low, add 20mcg/d T3. If the kidney
    function is off, then drink more. Protein stresses the
    kidneys, so you need more fluids.
    When you eventually come off the gear, you make sure
    that you are off the orals. Then cut out the anabolic
    over 2 weeks. Then the testosterone over 3 weeks. One
    week after that, you need to add primo tabs or anavar
    (oxandrin) for 3 weeks. That will ensure that you will
    keep your gains.
    Ideally do a gainkeeper's formula that is outlined in another article.

    These are the basic principles behind muscle growth. You do the above you will GROW, no matter what.

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    good read bigA...nice that it's also a sticky,,,
    “Failure is simply the opportunity to begin again, this time more intelligently." --Henry Ford

    Ability is what you're capable of doing.

    Motivation determines what you do.

    Attitude determines how well you do it.


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    FAR too much gear to be using for a beginner.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    Great Info for everyone. Thanks Big_A



    That was something I definatley needed to read.
    Last edited by Crank; 07-13-2005 at 01:11 AM.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    FAR too much gear to be using for a beginner.

    chaps i think what BigA is saying is that for a begginer or an intermediat BB'r those levels will be plenty. I dont think he is saying that for a begginer that they should jump into 750mg wk of test but i have to admit that it is perectly fine depending on the person. Md
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    Well it's growth principles for beginners and some of the info just looks TOO advanced for a beginner, like staying on that long, they should get their feet wet before just going on some long 6 month cycle.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    IFBB PRO, Admin Board Certified DMD Big A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    Well it's growth principles for beginners and some of the info just looks TOO advanced for a beginner, like staying on that long, they should get their feet wet before just going on some long 6 month cycle.
    And why just get their feet wet and waste the benefit of being on their first cycle and growing like mad?

    If their regular blood tests say that everything is perfect (health is fine), and they are still growing (receptors are fine), why shortchange themselves and come off?

    You guys are too hung up in a certain way of doing things and not listening to your body. Oh shit, I am supposed to be on for 8 weeks only. Oh shit, I am supposed to be doing only 8 reps for this set.
    You're supposed to tailor everything to your body.
    So if you're body says it's ok to stay on, why come off? Because you are 'supposed' to??

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    Well Big A it may work for you but i personally would not try the gear section of the plan that was mapped out. I like Author L, Rea's approach, smaller doses, shorter more frequent cycles.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    there is no way i the workout section would be enough for me , i consider myself a beginner. how much experience are you aiming this advise for.1 year 2 years experience with weight training.or someone just starting out.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    Well Big A it may work for you but i personally would not try the gear section of the plan that was mapped out. I like Author L, Rea's approach, smaller doses, shorter more frequent cycles.
    Yeah, just like some of his 'new' theories are exactly what I have been writing articles on the net about for years
    And all those were originals of mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by megatron
    there is no way i the workout section would be enough for me , i consider myself a beginner. how much experience are you aiming this advise for.1 year 2 years experience with weight training.or someone just starting out.
    That means that there is no way in the world you know how to train properly and know what hard workouts and intensity are about.

    If you think that those workouts are 'easy' you have NEVER trained properly in your life, because those workouts will bury you if you do them properly.

    Regarding the 'Beginner's' tag - that was just so sensitive types that have been at this sport for many years don't start crying when they read how to do things properly and finally realise why they haven't got proper results over the years.

    I have been training for 16 years and I have been a pro for 5 years. To this day, I still train the way it's written up there. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what my workout is.

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    Gotta agree more isnt always better, and that stidma seems tohave been ingrained in ppl's minds when it comes to lifting.
     

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    i would like to know more on the work out section i am interested in the 3day principle . i agree with the rest between workout days i just dont know how 1set on each exercise is enough and how you can work chest and shoulders in the same day.im allways open for advise i would like to to talk with you some more big A if you would i think the rest thing would be something that could help me i think i might over train a bit.
     

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    Forgive me if i don't believe you about you coming up with his theories first, just reading your suggestions on AAS use tells me that. The fact is just because your pro (present company excluded), doesn't not mean that you know how to train or use aas. Prime examples: Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler. Just like how ridiculous it is to see an article on calf training written by Mike Materazzo, everyone knows that he's had huge calfs form the start and barely even trains them. I"m not knocking you bro, i totally agree with your nutrition and training advice, i just find it hard to believe that you came up with L. Rea's theories first.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    The fact is just because your pro (present company excluded), doesn't not mean that you know how to train or use
    Yes it does.

    That statement just doesn't make any sense.....

    Anyhow...

    I also get the best results from the less is more approach to weight lifting and in my triathlon training. I could go out and swim/bike/run every single day but unless I give my body time to recover, the workouts are useless and I'm not getting the benefit from them.

    I used to train 5-6 days a week and now it's more like 3-4 and I am getting much better results in all my training.

    I think everything Big_A has said makes perfect sense and is dead on accurate. People make things too complicated these days and forget the basics.
     

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    Yes it does make sense, you ever read how Flex Wheeler used to use AAS, or eat or train, his training video is pathetic. He looks like he's more interested in joking around than training. Paul dillet is also known for having NO workout intensity, but both of them look big and freaky. See my point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    Yes it does make sense, you ever read how Flex Wheeler used to use AAS, or eat or train, his training video is pathetic. He looks like he's more interested in joking around than training. Paul dillet is also known for having NO workout intensity, but both of them look big and freaky. See my point?
    They both know exactly what works for them to build muscle and that's the only point that matters.
     

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    Your totally missing the point .
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    Wow. I've heard of this kind of training in the past. Think it was on trulyhuge.com.

    Is this split into two workouts per day? Or all done at one time? How long does it take to get thru it?

    Big A, do you use this routine, with variations of exercise to keep from stagnating, all year round, i.e. same 3-day per week schedule all year round?

    Thanx.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    Forgive me if i don't believe you about you coming up with his theories first, just reading your suggestions on AAS use tells me that. The fact is just because your pro (present company excluded), doesn't not mean that you know how to train or use aas. Prime examples: Paul Dillet, Flex Wheeler. Just like how ridiculous it is to see an article on calf training written by Mike Materazzo, everyone knows that he's had huge calfs form the start and barely even trains them. I"m not knocking you bro, i totally agree with your nutrition and training advice, i just find it hard to believe that you came up with L. Rea's theories first.
    You're entitled to your opinions

    How old is Rea's book? A simple internet search would simply show a lot of my artcile's preceeding his book by many years.
    I didn't say ALL his theories, I said some.
    And he's written a book? So? I have had three published so far and another two are coming out this year. Whoopty doo.

    Don't judge me by other pros. I don't fit any stereotype out there. You're a bodybuilder, so you fit the stereotype of dumb, stupid, muscle bound full of drugs and roid rage? Is that correct?
    Don't judge/criticise others when you have no idea about them!

    Anyone that believs what is written by or about how pros train is a fool. No pro writes any of the article's in the mags or any of the 'advice' columns that they do. A magazine happens to have photos of a pro doing certain exercises as directed at a photo shoot. The magazine has to use those photos, so they get a writer to make up a training article that incorporates those photos, and then asign the pros' name to the article.
    Numerous pros have 'their' training routines and diets written up in mags or even on their own videos which are NOTHING like what they actually do in real life.

    Let's use some logic here. Short cycles are supposed to not allow the body to shut down. But it takes the body about 4 weeks to shut down and it takes some steroids at least that long to build up in the body in order to get results.
    Sure you could use short esters, but even then, the body generally adds water weight for the first 4 weeks as it's trying ot protect itself from the hormonal imbalance that you are trying to create. Then, once it realises that the new hormonal imbalance is there to stay, it achieves homeostasis and finally starts building new muscle tissue.
    Because of that, short cycles don't work.

    Again, I'll ask the question that you haven't answered yet - if you're blood tests show that your health is fine, and your still growing (receptors are fine) what is the point of coming off??

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    Quote Originally Posted by megatron
    i would like to know more on the work out section i am interested in the 3day principle . i agree with the rest between workout days i just dont know how 1set on each exercise is enough and how you can work chest and shoulders in the same day.im allways open for advise i would like to to talk with you some more big A if you would i think the rest thing would be something that could help me i think i might over train a bit.
    The set is one WORK set to failure. That means the set has to be intense enough, that the muscle PHYSICALLY fails at the end of that set.
    You will find that a PROPER WORK set will have the muscle under more time under stress than several sets of standard training mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildit303
    Wow. I've heard of this kind of training in the past. Think it was on trulyhuge.com.

    Is this split into two workouts per day? Or all done at one time? How long does it take to get thru it?

    Big A, do you use this routine, with variations of exercise to keep from stagnating, all year round, i.e. same 3-day per week schedule all year round?

    Thanx.
    This is all based on HIT principles. Wherever you read about it, is just HIT rehashed and modified various ways.

    The workouts are only once a day. If you do twice daily workouts, that will stress the nervous system too much and as such drain your recovery ability too much.

    The workouts are under 1 hour. Legs and back take longer than chest as rest periods are longer as you are trying to recover after heavy work sets with squats, deadlifts, etc.

    I use the same routine year round, apart from competition time, where everything I do is geared to losing maximum fat in minimum time. The muscle is kept by gear and diet.

    For variation, I do slight changes - incline barbell gets replaced with flat db press and flat flyes with incline flyes, etc.

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    Who told ya that Paul Dillet didnt train with any intensity??? HAve you ever trained with him personally to know whether this to be true or not??? I've been in the same gym with him in Atl (back in the day) and he didnt half ass his training.
     

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    Big A - this post is great. The one thing for everyone to remember is that it can't cover everythign in that short space, so newbies wouldn't want to use that same amount of gear, and more experienced folks might want to use more (if they need to do that).

    I have read some research studies that suggest you can push out more strength increases by lowering the weight/increasing the reps with more regularity than most of us (or at least *I*) do. I HATE lowering the weight.

    For my "warm up" sets on things like the squat, bench or military press, I use a smith machine and about half the normal weight and try to do it as fast as possible (sort of a power lifter approach). Helps work on spead and power a bit and I can convince myself that it isn't really a "warm up" but useful on its own. Doesn't entirely remove the warm ups though...

    I know younger guys than I who are on HRT, so I also would agree that the risks of being "on" might be overstated if you get tests done regularly. For the short term, you need to make sure you don't screw up your liver and die. For the long term, you want to make sure your cholesterol doesn't get so out of whack that you get a heart attack or stroke in ten years. I would also add monitoring your BP to the list of things to do. I would also suggest using liver sups even if you are on orals.

    I think that if you monitor what you take and how your body is doing, you can modify things and get into a nice, relatively safe groove that works with OUR body.

    Great post
     

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    Your natural test levels can shut down before weeks, it all depends on how suppressive the compound/compounds your using are and their respective half-lifes.

    And yes it is a well known fact that you shouldn't believe the routines that pros write in the magazines, more often than not they will lead to over training. So about your comment about the short acting esters, are you saying that you ONLY gain water weight during the first 4 weeks of a cycle? I have personally witnessed this NOT being true.

    I would go for the short cycles because they are generally easier on the HPTA and therefore gains made on them, while they may be smaller will be MUCH more easily maintained post cycle. I mean what's the point of being on for 6 months, making impressive gains only to have a good chunk of them be lost post cycle because of your body scrambling to return to homestasis? That is why EVEN if i was still growing and my blood tests were fine i'd come of and give my body some down time, before going back on shortly after.
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    Anyone that has tried a powerlifting routine will tell you strength and size comes quickly. It took me many long years of lifting to realize less is more. My greatest benefits have come on 4 day a week workouts in the 4-6 rep range, the problem is its difficult to continuely workout that way, thats why I only do it 4 times a year for 6-8 weeks at a time.
     

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    this post is awsome!!!!! the way big A is training is basically the same as Mike mentzer, and also Dorian yates who i regard as having the greatest all round muslcular frame in bodybuilding. I personally have tried this way of training but the problem is say i get 2 plates on for 6 reps, i never seem to be able to go further than 6 reps my 1 rep max never gets higher, this has absoloutley kicked me in the teeth and really got me in a very deep depressed rut, since then i have realised im not cut out for being a bodybuilder so i concentrate more on looking lean and fit, im still going to do the odd cycle, just im not as obsessed with bodybuilding as i was before. Other than that big A cheers for the info and i wish you all the best in your bodybuilding career.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    Your natural test levels can shut down before weeks, it all depends on how suppressive the compound/compounds your using are and their respective half-lifes.
    With the androgenic compounds (testosterone) it takes towards 4 weeks to shut down your HPTA - this is medical fact, not crap that is written on a board somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    So about your comment about the short acting esters, are you saying that you ONLY gain water weight during the first 4 weeks of a cycle? I have personally witnessed this NOT being true.
    .
    You have not even done your first cycle yet, so how can you see you PERSONALLY witnessed this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    I would go for the short cycles because they are generally easier on the HPTA and therefore gains made on them, while they may be smaller will be MUCH more easily maintained post cycle. I mean what's the point of being on for 6 months, making impressive gains only to have a good chunk of them be lost post cycle because of your body scrambling to return to homestasis? That is why EVEN if i was still growing and my blood tests were fine i'd come of and give my body some down time, before going back on shortly after.
    If you do your cycle properly and then your pct properly, you will be recovered just as quick after a long cycle as a short one.
    If you do HCG every 4 weeks while on, when you come off, regardless of time on, doing a proper pct, you will be back to normal within 6 weeks.
    It will also take you just as long to recover if you do a 6 week cycle of short esters. Once your HPTA is shut, it's shut.

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    I can say i've personally witnessed this BECAUSE i've seen my buddies who regularily cycle AAS making gains in the first 4 weeks.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    I can say i've personally witnessed this BECAUSE i've seen my buddies who regularily cycle AAS making gains in the first 4 weeks.
    OK, what you see are water 'gains' inside the muscle. A lot of the initial weight gains are water under the skin but a lot is water in the muscle as well.
    Muscle is 70% water. Steroids increase water levels outside and inside the muscles. But those are not 'real' muscle gains, as in the protein muscle formations haven't happened yet. Those gains are the same as creatine water gains - as soon as the person is off the gear/creatine, the water from within the muscle goes away and no benefit is left thereafter.
    Doesn't mean it happens in 100% of the people as of course that is impossible due to individuality issues, but 95%+ of people do indeed get water gains only in the first 4 weeks, approximately.

    Go on a 4 week cycle of anything you wish. Then stop it exactly 4 weeks later and see how many gains you will keep.

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    My first cycle is going to be a 4 weeker actually, so i'll post my results once i run it in september.
    It takes a big man to cry... It takes an even bigger man to make him cry...

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    Hey Big-A !!!!!!!

    guys I think some dont get that each excrcise has warmups i.e like so: I'll use my flat bench for example:
    Bench: 4 sets
    135lbs or 2 plares one a side x 10 reps
    225 x 10 -25- reps
    315 x 10-15 reps
    405 x 10 (sometmes just skip to 465 straight)
    465 x 6 reps (last one is what everyone calls teh work set, though the preceeding 3 were your WARM UPS sets, i think the ONE WORK SET thing confuses the hell outta people

    That is all this is pretty much guys, the initial 1-3 warm ups is A- to get the proper groove on the excercise IMO and B- to get the muscle warmed up a little before hucking around near your max weight on that excercise for 4-6 reps

    Big-A no what do you say of advance dguys like myself, I am around 250 now I seem to do well off high volume
    typically i'll do 4 sets each about 5 excercise per body part , again i'll use chest as an example:
    Flat:
    135 x 20
    225 x 20
    315 x 16
    405 x 10 lst work out i did
    465 x 4 no spot
    Incline Dumbells:
    165lb'rs x 15
    165's x 15
    165's x 12 (biggest dumbells we got)
    Decline Dumbells:
    165 x 10
    165 x 10
    165 x 8
    Flyes:
    100's x 10
    100's x 10
    100's x 8
    100 x 6
    Crossovers just to finish up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    my questions are on bench of course I can go up, i have been well above 500lbs for reps many time, so i know that but what do i do as for dumbells ?
    I no longer do incline bar as it just screws up my shoulders royally seems to cuase impengements
    my prob is if I can do thes ereps with these weighst were do i go on anything accept bar excercises amd if I cant go giher in weight then should I continue with more sets till i can ?????????

    iwhat is your tak on Ronnie does he really train 6 days a week like they say ? I have abro that knws him that I can ask and get the truth I guess just curious of your expert opinion on the matter

    take care !
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaps
    My first cycle is going to be a 4 weeker actually, so i'll post my results once i run it in september.
    Really bad idea, I dont need to know what ur taking to know u will put on probably 15 pounds during that month but you will be upset when you piss it all out over the next two weeks. Muscle takes time to grow and the initial 10-15 can absolutely be 100% water, unless ur starting at something tiny like 140. Four weeks??? WASTE!!

    Your body has to grow other things besides muscle to support new muscle tissue, like blood vessels, sure you can look more veiny after only a few weeks of tren but that is mainly due to the increase in total blood volume and BP, its not new blood vessels.

    Think about it 4 weeks wont do shit. I dont get why people with no experience always decide that they know better than people who have seen some shit, do yourself a favor and go for at least 3 months on cycle number one, when you are done you will be well pleased.
    Consider everything I say on here to be for fictional, fun and joking purposes only. Dont do steroids. Brugs are Dad!

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    BigA I got a question on this thread.

    You posted about bloodwork and what to do regarding certain tests that may be out of range.

    What about RBC? It seems that 750mg of test will throw off the RBC of anyone (i could be wrong there) but especially if the anabolic used is EQ it seems an even greater risk of having your RBC out of wack. If this is the case, do you simply ignore it since we know the cause, or is this something that needs to be addressed. I just dont know of anyway of lowering it without dropping the doses of test of dropping eq all together.

    Mine is almost always a little high when on, other than that Im in the normal ranges even for liver enzymes. What do you think?
    Consider everything I say on here to be for fictional, fun and joking purposes only. Dont do steroids. Brugs are Dad!

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOCTREMBLAY
    my questions are on bench of course I can go up, i have been well above 500lbs for reps many time, so i know that but what do i do as for dumbells ?
    I no longer do incline bar as it just screws up my shoulders royally seems to cuase impengements
    my prob is if I can do thes ereps with these weighst were do i go on anything accept bar excercises amd if I cant go giher in weight then should I continue with more sets till i can ?????????
    Get the gym to make you bigger dumbells - 200lbs or move to another gym that has them. Otherwise, yes, just stick to bar exercises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by body2see
    Unless you are using gear, then such a workout routine would be without question overtraining for many. I think it goes back to the fact that what works for one, will not work for another. Simple as that. If you are taking 1g+ of test per week, obviously your body is going to have a significant positive nitrogen retention, on top of all the other positive factors going into quicker recovery times. Let's not forget that there are several users here who remain natural bodybuilders. For such members, overtraining is a key factor to take into consideration.

    As for the main question posed here...."If your blood results come back positive, and your receptors are still active, why should you come off??"

    -Common sense would tell us that the more foreign substances you put into your body, the higher degree to which it throws off your entire system. If this weren't true, then why would people use selective dosages?? People stay within boundaries for safety reasons. Just because your body can handle 1g+ of test, massive amounts of insulin, HGH, etc...does not give you a license to put it into the body without consequence. Sure, maybe the blood work is fine "for the moment". The human body can take a beating...but don't think for a moment it is not having a negative effect on your body. Somewhere in the body you are catastrophically effecting something. Do not think that extended high blood pressure levels, constant strain on the kidneys, liver, and other internal organs will not catch up to one down the road. A test is "at the moment". It does not show what will happen in a week, it will not show that your kidney, liver, and heart can fail at any moment. This is why most normal people tend to use shorter cycles, to save face, and save possible health consequences. There is no rocket science behind this. All the gear bodybuilders use will have a detrimental effect if abused, anything will, hell people die from ibuprofen. Good bloodwork is not a license to go crazy, minus consequence, unless of course one has a deathwish, and purely thinks about living one day at a time, without thought for the future.
    It is a common misconception that if one uses steroids they can train harder than natural. Not so. While yes, steroids to increase recovery ability, they greatly increase strength very quickly, which means more damage done to the muscles each workout, which means that the body needs the extra recovery ability from the streroids so it does not become overtrained.
    You have to keep in mind that over a persons training life, their strength can increase 6 times while the recovery ability increases only 2.5 times.
    The above aorkout is great for naturals too. It originally became designed as a natural's workout.

    Blood tests are used in medecine to see possible future problems as before anything goes wrong with an organ, signs can be detected through blood tests for a very long time in advance, years even. So doing a blood test every 6 weeks or so will give you plenty of warning.

    You said highblood pressure - if a person doesn't eat like a moron, the blood pressure stays normal. Mine is always 120/80 regardless of how much gear I use because I watch the diet.

    You said liver and kidneys get stressed - most injectibles have ZERO negative effects on the liver. Check any medical journal. For the toxic compounds, one is supposed to take liver aids. If Synthergine is taken with any aa17 compounds, the liver will not be under stress, unless the person is a moron and also drinks and takes rec drugs.
    The kidneys will be fine as there's only 1 or 2 steroids that 'could' possibly be kidney toxic. Most kidney problems are because people get dehydrated because they don't drink water. Soft drinks, etc do not hydrate.
    Also, I recomend Proscar for keeping the prostate healthy, Femara to keep estrogen levels in check and regular HCG or CLomid to keep the testes functioning.
    The heart is kept healthy with intense cardio, fish oils, aspirin, etc. And of course, if one is worried, they should get MRIs done when they do the blood test.

    Ibuprufen is more liver toxic than paracetamol which in turn is more liver toxic than ANY steroid, including d-bol, a-50 and halo.

    I do not support abuse of steroids, but if done the way I suggest, then that is not abuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZ1
    BigA I got a question on this thread.

    You posted about bloodwork and what to do regarding certain tests that may be out of range.

    What about RBC? It seems that 750mg of test will throw off the RBC of anyone (i could be wrong there) but especially if the anabolic used is EQ it seems an even greater risk of having your RBC out of wack. If this is the case, do you simply ignore it since we know the cause, or is this something that needs to be addressed. I just dont know of anyway of lowering it without dropping the doses of test of dropping eq all together.

    Mine is almost always a little high when on, other than that Im in the normal ranges even for liver enzymes. What do you think?
    Generally, most people are aenemic, so the gear will optimise their RBC. That being said, 150mg/day of aspirin helps blood flow. There are also all the blood thinners and those drugs that make the blood cells more slippery, but if you need to use those, then your RBC is abnormally high to begin with which means you shouldn't be using steroids in the first place.

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    Big A I just have to say you have GOT to be one of THE most patient people on these boards.

    When I read some of the responses they have me pulling my hair out but you just answer in your usual calm factual matter. Ah to be 21 again and to know it all


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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    Big A I just have to say you have GOT to be one of THE most patient people on these boards.

    When I read some of the responses they have me pulling my hair out but you just answer in your usual calm factual matter. Ah to be 21 again and to know it all


    CROWLER


    Hey, did I tell you that I am 5 for 5 in the Supreme court now? Out of the five cases (mine was first obviously), I have won five, all unanimously

    In the Supreme court, you don't argue just with the prosecution, you argue with the whole bench (3 Supreme court judges) as they throw questions at you in the middle of your arguments and it's up to you to convince them (the judges) that there was a mistake of law that took place.

    So far, I've won every case and in the first one (mine) I actually made a new law as I set a precedent, which I succesfully used in another case that I won.

    Right now I am working on the sixth one, which is actually Constitutional law. I'll be arguing 5 grounds of Appeal, 3 of them being that the law regarding this particular issue is unconstitutional. Will be fun

    So yes, I have become accustomed to arguing calmly. That way the other party makes mistakes and if you are calm you get to see them.
    Here on the boards, it's really easy when you have facts to back you and all these young pups think they know what they are talking about. At least I try to set them straight, because as you said, most of the experienced guys can't even be bothered arguing with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big A


    Hey, did I tell you that I am 5 for 5 in the Supreme court now? Out of the five cases (mine was first obviously), I have won five, all unanimously

    In the Supreme court, you don't argue just with the prosecution, you argue with the whole bench (3 Supreme court judges) as they throw questions at you in the middle of your arguments and it's up to you to convince them (the judges) that there was a mistake of law that took place.

    So far, I've won every case and in the first one (mine) I actually made a new law as I set a precedent, which I succesfully used in another case that I won.

    Right now I am working on the sixth one, which is actually Constitutional law. I'll be arguing 5 grounds of Appeal, 3 of them being that the law regarding this particular issue is unconstitutional. Will be fun

    So yes, I have become accustomed to arguing calmly. That way the other party makes mistakes and if you are calm you get to see them.
    Here on the boards, it's really easy when you have facts to back you and all these young pups think they know what they are talking about. At least I try to set them straight, because as you said, most of the experienced guys can't even be bothered arguing with them.


    Supreme court, legal precedent, Constitutional law ????????

    And all these years I thought you were just a big muscle head


    BTW impressive as heck.



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    C'mon, surely you read about my Supreme court adventures on ProMuscle as I mentioned it there, I think??!!

    Anyway, you will get to read all about it in my new book. It will finally be out in about 2 months.

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    LOL hey buddy I was just kidding didn't you see the smiley face. Actually I missed a few months I think when most of that was going on. I also don't like to pry into people's business but glad to hear it when it is posted.

    Take care and let me know when you want to get a dozen houses or so I can look around for you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    LOL hey buddy I was just kidding didn't you see the smiley face. CROWLER
    I know

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    How would you extend this from a 3 day to a 4 day program?
    Thate

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    I've been on a HIT type of workout for almost a month now. 3-4 days/week (lifting every other day, basically), full body workout, one work set per muscle group, 8-10 reps, to failure....as much as possible. I'm not doing much in the way of warm-ups, except I do 3 sets of leg extensions to warm up my knees before my squat set.

    Here's my thoughts, from my lowly 1-month of experience, on this type of workout:

    First, if you are used to lifting 5-6 days/week, it's a HUGE mental hurdle to get over. Second, GET OVER IT. Like the guys who use this routine religiously say, if you do it 'right', it's a killer workout. I've definitely seen strength increases and mass in the first month....not major, but it is getting me past my previous sticking points and that was the purpose for me. I'm 38 years old, 6'3", 245lb, been lifting forever, and hate those sticking points which inevitably occur.

    Third, you NEED a workout partner to make this work right. Doing each exercise to failure really requires a partner to help you eek out that last rep....especially on the big muscle group exercises. I rarely get to workout with a partner, but when I do, it's WAY more exhausting because of those last reps. I can't do alone. What I sometimes do to simulate a workout partner, is one or two drop-sets (taking off a few pounds of weight...works best on a machine vs. free weights); this really emulates what a workout partner does for you.....helps you get that last rep. in and go to failure.

    Fourth, it takes longer than the 45 minutes that is so often talked about. I find that I spend a lot of time just setting up the exercise.....loading plates, adjusting machines. Makes sense, I'm doing about 12 exercises, each requiring a different apparatus, machine, weight. It usually takes me at least an hour.....but not much more than an hour and fifteen or twenty. By then, I'm wiped.

    Couple other comments. Diet.....haven't quite figured this one out. I'm definitely NOT as hungry as I am when I did the 5-6 days/week routine. I have a natural tendency to put on fat pretty easily (f*ck!), so I haven't been eating as much as I did before. My body weight is still up, and my strength increases are coming pretty good....so I'm not going to worry about it too much. I'll still eat every 2-3 hours, but just not eat quite as much.

    Oh, I'm not taking any supps/gear now. Just vitamins and BCAAs.

    I'm going to continue this at least another month.

    Thanx BigA for the original post here.....even tho it says it's for 'beginners', it can be helpful for anybody I think.

    Thanx.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by thate1
    How would you extend this from a 3 day to a 4 day program?
    Well, extending it to a 4 day program, which I assume you mean Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri, will defeat the purpose of the program.

    But if you want 4 day splits, then I would go for Chest/Shoulders, Quads/Hams, Abd, Back, Calves/Bis/Tris.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buildit303
    I've been on a HIT type of workout for almost a month now. 3-4 days/week (lifting every other day, basically), full body workout, one work set per muscle group, 8-10 reps, to failure....as much as possible. I'm not doing much in the way of warm-ups, except I do 3 sets of leg extensions to warm up my knees before my squat set.

    Here's my thoughts, from my lowly 1-month of experience, on this type of workout:

    First, if you are used to lifting 5-6 days/week, it's a HUGE mental hurdle to get over. Second, GET OVER IT. Like the guys who use this routine religiously say, if you do it 'right', it's a killer workout. I've definitely seen strength increases and mass in the first month....not major, but it is getting me past my previous sticking points and that was the purpose for me. I'm 38 years old, 6'3", 245lb, been lifting forever, and hate those sticking points which inevitably occur.

    Third, you NEED a workout partner to make this work right. Doing each exercise to failure really requires a partner to help you eek out that last rep....especially on the big muscle group exercises. I rarely get to workout with a partner, but when I do, it's WAY more exhausting because of those last reps. I can't do alone. What I sometimes do to simulate a workout partner, is one or two drop-sets (taking off a few pounds of weight...works best on a machine vs. free weights); this really emulates what a workout partner does for you.....helps you get that last rep. in and go to failure.

    Fourth, it takes longer than the 45 minutes that is so often talked about. I find that I spend a lot of time just setting up the exercise.....loading plates, adjusting machines. Makes sense, I'm doing about 12 exercises, each requiring a different apparatus, machine, weight. It usually takes me at least an hour.....but not much more than an hour and fifteen or twenty. By then, I'm wiped.

    Couple other comments. Diet.....haven't quite figured this one out. I'm definitely NOT as hungry as I am when I did the 5-6 days/week routine. I have a natural tendency to put on fat pretty easily (f*ck!), so I haven't been eating as much as I did before. My body weight is still up, and my strength increases are coming pretty good....so I'm not going to worry about it too much. I'll still eat every 2-3 hours, but just not eat quite as much.

    Oh, I'm not taking any supps/gear now. Just vitamins and BCAAs.

    I'm going to continue this at least another month.

    Thanx BigA for the original post here.....even tho it says it's for 'beginners', it can be helpful for anybody I think.

    Thanx.
    Agreed. Partners are extremely usefull. If you dont' have one, do all your exercises in a cage.

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    will an octagon work?
    Thate

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    What's an octagon?

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    i'm a beginner..havent done a cycle or anything..still debating wether to go on one.....everybody is giving me different info..big A u seem to know alot..so i'll ask u...i'm not big on injecting anything...is it possible to do an all oral cycle? if so..give me an example.....thanks..
     

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