Sub Q TRT - 20% better results???

Get 20% Better Results From Testosterone

Subcutaneous TRT

by TC Luoma | 08/09/16


Tags: Testosterone Optimization
Pharma





20 Percent More Bang

When Nation first launched way back in 1998, getting your doctor to prescribe testosterone to you was tricky. Luckily most docs are up to speed these days on testosterone-replacement therapy (TRT). Heck, you can even find "low T" centers at your local strip mall and see commercials for testosterone in prime time.
Today you have the choice of injections, gels, creams, or pellets in treating low T. However, testosterone injections give you the most bang for your buck. And now, a new method may give you 20% extra bang for the very same buck. It's called subcutaneous or "subQ" injection.
[h=3]Inject Into Fat, Not MuscleIf you've been on TRT for any length of time, it's likely your glutes are so scarred up from years of intramuscular (IM) injections that they're starting to resemble a piece of leftover gristle from the Sunday pot roast.
It's also quite likely those intramuscular injections are causing the occasional painful inflammatory response, in addition to needlessly spiking your estrogen levels. The safer, simpler, and perhaps even more effective way to administer testosterone is into the fatty layer just under the skin, otherwise known as a subcutaneous injection.
Dr. John Crisler, of the All Things Male Center for Health, has played a huge role in popularizing the subQ method.
Dr. John Crisler, SubQ Injection Demonstration

<!-- VIDEO --> <!-- VIDEO --> Why SubQ Better

1. Going under the skin saves you from approximately 500 potentially damaging intramuscular injections every decade.
2. Injecting your testosterone subcutaneously involves the use of a small gauge needle (25 gauge half-inch, or 26 gauge 3/8 inch if you're very lean), thus making it feasible to give yourself two injections per week, which allows for a more even and natural testosterone profile.
3. Since you're injecting two times a week, the testosterone is more smoothly metabolized and might even bring estrogen levels down.
4. Dr. Crisler believes this method gives you more bang for your testosterone buck. He says that 80 mg of subQ testosterone has the effect of a 100 mg of testosterone administered intramuscularly.
5. You can use the same needle to fill your syringe and administer the dose.
6. Since there's no danger of puncturing a vein, there's no need to aspirate when you go subQ.

<!-- IMAGE --> <!-- IMAGE --> How You Do It

1. Buy yourself some 25 gauge 5/8-inch needles or 26 gauge 3/8-inch needles (if you're very lean) and some 1 cc syringes. There are several diabetes care websites that ship direct to the customer. If you're getting them from your pharmacy, you can ask for tuberculin (TB) syringes that are designed for small subcutaneous doses and make it easy to inject oily testosterone.
2. Split your normal weekly dosage into two equal doses. In other words, if you normally inject 200 mg. IM, inject 100 mg. twice a week. If your doctor has you using 100 mg. weekly, inject 50 mg. on Wednesday and 50 mg. Saturday for example.
3. Wipe the top of the bottle of testosterone ester with an alcohol swab as you would for IM administration.
4. Draw up the testosterone in the pre-determined dosage and simply "dart" the needle into the fat pad on your abdomen, the "love handles," or buttocks. Do not try to squeeze or pinch the fatty area. The short needle will insure the magic juice isn't entering muscle tissue. Inject slowly.
5. Feel awesome.

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I'd like to hear more people comment on this. This goes against what I was taught. IGF maybe, but not test.

20% slower maybe...Or 20% more painful (more like 200%)

True sub q injections BURN like a mofo.

I do subq now and just got blood taken this morning.

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Also, logic just screams to me that more T would aromatize if it was in the fatty tissue. Since that is where aromatization usually occurs. Your highest concentration of aromatase is in the fatty tissues.

Also sub Q injections absorb much slower, thus stretching the dose, and lowering the peak amount.

Also 80mg of T NEVER can equal 100mg of T. 80mg =80mg , 100=100. That statement alone is what stood out to me from a logic perspective.

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jimbosmith316 said:

I do subq now and just got blood taken this morning.

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What size pin do you use and what angle do you go in? Does it burn? I am curious.

Dean Destructo said:

Also, logic just screams to me that more T would aromatize if it was in the fatty tissue. Since that is where aromatization usually occurs. Your highest concentration of aromatase is in the fatty tissues.

Also sub Q injections absorb much slower, thus stretching the dose, and lowering the peak amount.

Also 80mg of T NEVER can equal 100mg of T. 80mg =80mg , 100=100. That statement alone is what stood out to me from a logic perspective.

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What size pin do you use and what angle do you go in? Does it burn? I am curious.

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Once in a while it will start to burn then goes right away. It does take a long time since I use a 29ga 1ml diabetic needed 5/16 length. I literally got blood drawn this morning and I can't wait for the results.

I had issues of sore.spots the day after at first but no longer get them since changing from .5 ml per injection to .25-.33ml per injection.

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Good information...I would be interested in hearing about more trials

I just can't do it like that. I would feel like a pin cushion, lol.

I like to load it all up and let her rip one time!

I kinda do feel like one lol

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Dean Destructo said:

I just can't do it like that. I would feel like a pin cushion, lol.

I like to load it all up and let her rip one time!

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Me too, kind of a creature of habit.

Iron-game said:

Me too, kind of a creature of habit.

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I would probably pick a longer ester next time lol

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I feel like a pin cushion now, with almost daily sticks. Can't imagine breaking it down even further and have to give multiple pins every day.

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sub q gives me lumps that last for weeks.. no thanks lol

3J said:

sub q gives me lumps that last for weeks.. no thanks lol

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Manly Man Lumps

Dean Destructo said:

Manly Man Lumps

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Lumps for her pleasure lol

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:coollook:

Just found this. The fact that subq injections do not seem to raise E2 levels more than IM injections (as you originally feared, Dr Crisler), is likely due to the fact that the ester (be it propionate, cypionate, enanthate) is mostly cleaved from the testosterone by esterase enzymes IN THE BLOODSTREAM. This means the testosterone, while sitting in the subq fatty tissue would still mostly have its ester attached. Thus, all of the aromatase sitting around in those adipose cells would be useless for converting the testosterone ester (in other words, the aromatase will convert testosterone (no ester) to estradiol (no ester), but will not convert testosterone cypionate to estradiol cypionate).

Once the testosterone ester is absorbed into the blood and the ester is cleaved off to release testosterone itself, then all is fair game whether it came from an IM source OR a subq source - ie: it may circulate and return to the adipose cells to then be converted to E, but this, in effect, removes the location of injection as a significant variable for affecting E levels. Since ester cleavage occurs primarily in the blood, the actual site of injection should have almost no DIRECT impact on E conversion, but may have an INDIRECT impact by way of differing pharmacodynamics of serum T levels in IM vs subq injections.

As an addendum to above, topical T preparations (non-esterified) are well known to disproportionately elevate DHT levels (as expected due to the 5 alpha reductase levels in the skin). Along these same lines, in theory although not always evident in practice, as these topical preparations are non-esterified and absorb and deposit in the fatty subq/adipose tissue as testosterone and not a testosterone ester, your concern for increased aromatization to E should theoretically be much more of a concern with the topicals..... topicals = TESTOSTERONE in the adipose tissue --> aromatization T to E. Subq injection = testosterone CYPIONATE/ESTER in the adipose tissue --> NO aromatization to E cypionate. No concern for aromatization until ester is cleaved in the blood and T (if or when) recirculates back to the adipose tissue

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3J said:

sub q gives me lumps that last for weeks.. no thanks lol

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this is why I stopped. I also would get horrible bruising once every 10 shots or so.................Then on the positive side, it does tend to cut E issues and I can cut my dosages of nolva. It is easy as can be backloading then injecting 1/2cc 2xW.

I can go sometime a month with no lumps and no bruising and all is good. Works best for me in the winter when I am more covered up!!

This can only be for true trt. Can you imagine taking a gram like that or even split up you would really be a pin cushion

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thudgens96 said:

This can only be for true trt. Can you imagine taking a gram like that or even split up you would really be a pin cushion

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I do it lol

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