W
WeirdAl
Guest
Does slin have any place pre-contest in a cutting cycle?
midwtchamp
Banana
I am thinking of using it to carb up...we shall see how that goes
PRAETORIAN
New member
Slin
works beautifully carbing up...humulin r every 4-5 hours with carbs and you will be as full as possible....if water is a problem aldactone staring 1.5 weeks out works great! The slin is only needed the last 2 days while carbing...it can be used while dieting if you are doing a metabolic diet you can use it to aid in hitting ketosis quicker!
P
works beautifully carbing up...humulin r every 4-5 hours with carbs and you will be as full as possible....if water is a problem aldactone staring 1.5 weeks out works great! The slin is only needed the last 2 days while carbing...it can be used while dieting if you are doing a metabolic diet you can use it to aid in hitting ketosis quicker!
P
Skip
Banana
DP and I differ on our approaches with this one. Neither is really right or wrong, just a different approach.
I am all for insulin during precontest and I am not just talking about carbing up the last few days of the show. However, if you are not seasoned or a veteran of cutting, you won't know your body well enough to get the maximum benefits from it.
Skip
I am all for insulin during precontest and I am not just talking about carbing up the last few days of the show. However, if you are not seasoned or a veteran of cutting, you won't know your body well enough to get the maximum benefits from it.
Skip
tenn0titan
New member
I have only used slin for growth but wouldn't slin during the cutting phase still help with amino acid uptake by the muscles? You slin dose would have to be lower than normal and timed with whatever carbs you were doing but I think it would work. What about this plan.
Slin during the cutting phase. 3-5 ius used post workout with some light dextrose carbs (30-50 carbs), creatine & glutamine, and some whey protein (60-100 proteins).
Then when you carb deplete drop the slin. Add it back when you carb load. Do what PRAETORIAN talked about for the loading. But Skip is right. I think that if slin is new to you your body will not benefit from its use as would someone who has used it several times before.
just my 2.5 cents
tentitan
Slin during the cutting phase. 3-5 ius used post workout with some light dextrose carbs (30-50 carbs), creatine & glutamine, and some whey protein (60-100 proteins).
Then when you carb deplete drop the slin. Add it back when you carb load. Do what PRAETORIAN talked about for the loading. But Skip is right. I think that if slin is new to you your body will not benefit from its use as would someone who has used it several times before.
just my 2.5 cents
tentitan
Humologue is great for pre-contest. Let me explain why. If you follow a traditional style rotation diet, meaning 3 days on low carbs and one day on high, it is great to use log with your first meal of the day and your 4th on the high carb day. Why? Because you can not stay on low carbs every day or your metabolism will adjust and slow down, hence we add the 1 high carb day. But we also want to continue to have relatively low glucose levels so that we can continually burn fat, which will usually be halted if you take a couple days out of the week and eat 500 grams of carbs. When you use the log, your blood sugar levels and glucose levels remain low, and the rest of the nutrients are shuttles into your muscles.
It is also good to carb up with log during your carb-up phase right before your show. You will get more carbs in with less chance of spill-over. Be careful though, too much insulin can make you watery. And please don't use Humulin-r, there is no place for it in bodybuilding and it is far to dangerous because it lasts in your system too long. People only use this because they don't need a prescription for it. Do yourself a favor and find a way to gedt log
It is also good to carb up with log during your carb-up phase right before your show. You will get more carbs in with less chance of spill-over. Be careful though, too much insulin can make you watery. And please don't use Humulin-r, there is no place for it in bodybuilding and it is far to dangerous because it lasts in your system too long. People only use this because they don't need a prescription for it. Do yourself a favor and find a way to gedt log
PRAETORIAN
New member
SJR7674
As per what SJR7674 was saying with slin..it does work great to keep blood glucose levels low while having a high carb day...but this is a tricky condition to flirt with..it does take practise to find the correct dosage of slin and grams of carbs to be low but not too low...i have experimented with "R" and it has done the job quite well...i will experiemnt with "Log" and see what the difference is...This is not something a beginner should be trying without supervision either.
As per what SJR7674 was saying with slin..it does work great to keep blood glucose levels low while having a high carb day...but this is a tricky condition to flirt with..it does take practise to find the correct dosage of slin and grams of carbs to be low but not too low...i have experimented with "R" and it has done the job quite well...i will experiemnt with "Log" and see what the difference is...This is not something a beginner should be trying without supervision either.
homonunculus
New member
As an FYI:
Humulin R injected IM will have somewhat similar pharmacokinetics as Humalog sub-q. My guess is that the half-life can be even further decreased if the 'slin is injected into a muscle that was recently active or is to be trained.
As Praetorian said, this is not something to fool around with.
Diabet Med. 1998 Sep;15(9):747-51. Related Articles, Links
Intramuscular versus subcutaneous injection of soluble and lispro insulin: comparison of metabolic effects in healthy subjects.
Rave K, Heise T, Weyer C, Herrnberger J, Bender R, Hirschberger S, Heinemann L.
Department of Metabolic Diseases and Nutrition, WHO Collaborating Centre for Diabetes, Heinrich Heine University, Dusseldorf, Germany. [email protected]
The aim of this study was to compare the glucodynamic effects of soluble insulin and the rapid acting insulin analogue insulin lispro after subcutaneous (s.c.) and intramuscular (i.m.) injection. Twelve healthy male volunteers (age 26.8 +/- 1.7 years, BMI 23.2 +/- 2.3 kg m(-2); mean +/- SD) participated in this single-centre, open-labelled, euglycaemic glucose clamp study on four different days. Soluble insulin or insulin lispro (0.2 U kg(-1)) were injected s.c. or i.m. into the thigh by syringe. The glucodynamic effects were assessed by registering the glucose infusion rates necessary to maintain blood glucose at 5.0 mmol l(-1) for the subsequent 420 min. Intramuscular injection of soluble insulin led to an earlier peak of metabolic action when compared to s.c. administered soluble insulin (tmax 138 +/- 29 vs 179 +/- 34 min; p < 0.05). The maximal metabolic effect and metabolic activity during the first 2 h after i.m. and s.c. injection of soluble insulin were comparable (GIRmax 9.7 +/- 2.3 vs 7.8 +/- 2.3 mg kg(-1) min(-1); n.s., AUC0-120min 0.60 +/- 0.18 vs 0.50 +/- 0.15 g kg(-1) 120 min; n.s.). Subcutaneous administration of insulin lispro led to a metabolic effect resembling that induced by i.m. application of soluble insulin (tmax 116 +/- 26 vs 138 +/- 29 min; n.s., GIRmax 11.1 +/- 2.3 mg vs 9.7 +/- mg kg(-1) min(-1); n.s.). However, the overall metabolic response during the first 2 h after injection was higher with s.c. insulin lispro (AUC0-120min 0.81 +/- 0.26 vs 0.60 +/- 0.18 g kg(-1) 120 min; p < 0.05). The glucodynamic activity of i.m. applied insulin lispro was comparable to that of lispro s.c.. Following i.m. injection of soluble insulin, the metabolic activity peaked more rapidly than with s.c. administration. In contrast, the metabolic effect of insulin lispro was similar with either route. The time-action profile of i.m. injected soluble insulin lies between that of s.c. applied soluble insulin and insulin lispro.
-Randy
Humulin R injected IM will have somewhat similar pharmacokinetics as Humalog sub-q. My guess is that the half-life can be even further decreased if the 'slin is injected into a muscle that was recently active or is to be trained.
As Praetorian said, this is not something to fool around with.
Diabet Med. 1998 Sep;15(9):747-51. Related Articles, Links
Intramuscular versus subcutaneous injection of soluble and lispro insulin: comparison of metabolic effects in healthy subjects.
Rave K, Heise T, Weyer C, Herrnberger J, Bender R, Hirschberger S, Heinemann L.
Department of Metabolic Diseases and Nutrition, WHO Collaborating Centre for Diabetes, Heinrich Heine University, Dusseldorf, Germany. [email protected]
The aim of this study was to compare the glucodynamic effects of soluble insulin and the rapid acting insulin analogue insulin lispro after subcutaneous (s.c.) and intramuscular (i.m.) injection. Twelve healthy male volunteers (age 26.8 +/- 1.7 years, BMI 23.2 +/- 2.3 kg m(-2); mean +/- SD) participated in this single-centre, open-labelled, euglycaemic glucose clamp study on four different days. Soluble insulin or insulin lispro (0.2 U kg(-1)) were injected s.c. or i.m. into the thigh by syringe. The glucodynamic effects were assessed by registering the glucose infusion rates necessary to maintain blood glucose at 5.0 mmol l(-1) for the subsequent 420 min. Intramuscular injection of soluble insulin led to an earlier peak of metabolic action when compared to s.c. administered soluble insulin (tmax 138 +/- 29 vs 179 +/- 34 min; p < 0.05). The maximal metabolic effect and metabolic activity during the first 2 h after i.m. and s.c. injection of soluble insulin were comparable (GIRmax 9.7 +/- 2.3 vs 7.8 +/- 2.3 mg kg(-1) min(-1); n.s., AUC0-120min 0.60 +/- 0.18 vs 0.50 +/- 0.15 g kg(-1) 120 min; n.s.). Subcutaneous administration of insulin lispro led to a metabolic effect resembling that induced by i.m. application of soluble insulin (tmax 116 +/- 26 vs 138 +/- 29 min; n.s., GIRmax 11.1 +/- 2.3 mg vs 9.7 +/- mg kg(-1) min(-1); n.s.). However, the overall metabolic response during the first 2 h after injection was higher with s.c. insulin lispro (AUC0-120min 0.81 +/- 0.26 vs 0.60 +/- 0.18 g kg(-1) 120 min; p < 0.05). The glucodynamic activity of i.m. applied insulin lispro was comparable to that of lispro s.c.. Following i.m. injection of soluble insulin, the metabolic activity peaked more rapidly than with s.c. administration. In contrast, the metabolic effect of insulin lispro was similar with either route. The time-action profile of i.m. injected soluble insulin lies between that of s.c. applied soluble insulin and insulin lispro.
-Randy
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