LR3IGF-I + GH -- Synergistic?

the feedback loop whereby igf-i acts on gh production at the pituitary is a strange one. apparently each cell has its own on/off switch, so it's either all or nothing, *but* the point at which this switch varies widely from cell to cell.

http://mend.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/9/1549

"Quantification of the average endogenous GH mRNA level was performed by RPA on MtT/S cultures to which increasing concentrations of LR3IGF-1 or IGF-I were added (Fig. 4). Analysis by one-factor ANOVA showed that the amount of GH mRNA in MtT/S cells treated with increasing concentrations of LR3IGF-1 was significantly reduced (F7, 16 = 13.4, P = 0.0001; Fig. 4A). Treatment with as little as 0.004 nM LR3IGF-1 significantly reduced GH mRNA levels vs. controls (P < 0.05), and 2.6 nM LR3IGF-1 maximally reduced GH mRNA levels."

note that 2.6nM LR3IGF-I is a concentration not far greater than we're likely to reach in practice: given a molar weight of 7.6kDa, it corresponds to 19.7ng/ml. 50mcg in one shot would likely lead to peak serum levels around 10nm/ml in your average bodybuilder. it's also important to consider that the binding proteins are heavily involved in aggregating/keeping/liberating IGF-I in many tissues, and some actually increase its bioactivity. this will lead to unpredictable effects of lr3igf-i on various systems, including the pituitary.

the serum half-life is probably on the order of 14 hours, but the important thing is how long it's active in tissues for. the reduced affinity for binding proteins probably reduces this duration considerably, but how much in vivo pituitary? dunno.

regarding the use of hgh/igf-i in combination, it's likely that using them at once would decrease their combined effectiveness:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15749813

"Receptor mRNA expression was altered by exposing cells to GH or IGF-I. GH and IGF significantly decreased GHR mRNA in proliferative cells. GH and IGF also decreased IGF-IR mRNA in resting cells and the 2- and 4-week-old proliferative and hypertropic cells. Treating cells in culture with GH increased the number of apoptotic cells across all ages and zones."

i.e. in that tissue at least, GH and IGF downregulate each other's receptors as well as their own.

it is worth noting that the igf-i produced in an autocrine manner by skeletal muscle in response to damage from training is a different IGF (IGF-IEb), a.k.a. MGF, than that produced in response to GH (IGF-IEa). LR3IGF-I is much closer in structure and action to IGF-IEa. GH will not directly upregulate MGF production, but may in the presence of exercise. whether systemic IGF-I will is debatable, but it doesn't strike me as likely, so you may see some synergy(and greater potency of GH as compared to IGF-I or even combined use) from this aspect. there is unfortunately very little research here.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14565994
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15308683

but the science is just the science; what matters most is the real-world experience. i've never run gh, though i swear by lr3igf-i. has anyone here run them together versus each apart? what was your experience like?

I ran IGF-1 with 1 i.u HGH with great results. Went from 215 13%bf to 227 8% bf in 6 weeks! This was all I was taking, next run will include pgf-2, HGH, and clen

Check your pm MArble!

anabolicbruce said:

I ran IGF-1 with 1 i.u HGH with great results. Went from 215 13%bf to 227 8% bf in 6 weeks! This was all I was taking, next run will include pgf-2, HGH, and clen

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What was you diet during your cycle?

anyone that i have heard of has ran the two together and has had great gains.....TK is very up to par on the IGF-1 and HGH . I know that there have been some studies that suggest that IGF combined with gear hinders gains.....but that is not confirmed nor valid....sooo dunno but i would say they are awesome together (IGF AND HGH)

My diet stayed consistant at around 3300 cal/day with 350g prot, 300g carbs, 84 g fat. I am on my second run of IGF-1 and cut my cal down. Im 12 weeks out of my show.

Xtreme_BODY said:

What was you diet during your cycle?

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Bignick said:

anyone that i have heard of has ran the two together and has had great gains.....TK is very up to par on the IGF-1 and HGH . I know that there have been some studies that suggest that IGF combined with gear hinders gains.....but that is not confirmed nor valid....sooo dunno but i would say they are awesome together (IGF AND HGH)

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seriously, regarding AAS and IGF-I not being synergistic? that's total crap from every study i've read. i wonder what they came up with.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12898459&dopt=Abstract

anyway, glad to hear the combo kicks ass for you in the real world. that's what really counts. thanks for the info.

personaly i would never use it alone again, best thing ever was stacking it, alone to me was not so great

lr3 IGF-1 stacked with aas will facilitate "immense" growth!! Heres how- IGF-1 will actually cause the muscle cell to split, therefore multiplying the number of fibers. AAS cause individual fibers to grow larger, also causing some cell-splitting. If you are simultaneously splitting cells and making them grow, theoretically, the growth will be greater and much more permanent.

Presser said:

personaly i would never use it alone again, best thing ever was stacking it, alone to me was not so great

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are you referring to hgh/igf-i or igf-i + gear? i definitely wouldn't run igf-i on its own, but i feel like you get an amazing response from just igf-i/gear.

totally agreed with all of dr. bruce's comments above as well, but i'd note additionally that igf-i has its own volumizing effects, which is part of what provides the substrate for the cell division.

If taking IGF-1 dampens production of GH (whether lr3IGF or natural) which is what seems to be the case according to the info posted above, then I have to assume also taking GH would have to provide even better results because you can take more than what your body would produce naturally (and GH has some growth effects that IGF does not have). Stack that with AAS (and possibly slin if you can use it right), and you'd have to expect major growth provided your diet was correct. No wonder some of those guys are monsters.

tonykemp said:

If taking IGF-1 dampens production of GH (whether lr3IGF or natural) which is what seems to be the case according to the info posted above, then I have to assume also taking GH would have to provide even better results because you can take more than what your body would produce naturally (and GH has some growth effects that IGF does not have). Stack that with AAS (and possibly slin if you can use it right), and you'd have to expect major growth provided your diet was correct. No wonder some of those guys are monsters.

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igf-i does dampen gh production, but more importantly, in target tissues, IGF-I and GH downregulate each other's receptors. it may be a case where 2 + 2 = 3, but 3 is still greater than 2, which is what peoples' replies are suggesting.

Exactly. That was a great read, thanx Marble.

tonykemp said:

Exactly. That was a great read, thanx Marble.

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i think you're right on the major anabolic potential, but at what cost? anyway, pleasure bro, thanks for contributing your own knowledge and insight.

Marble said:

but the science is just the science; what matters most is the real-world experience. i've never run gh, though i swear by lr3igf-i. has anyone here run them together versus each apart? what was your experience like?

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Hi. What kind of results have you experienced from lr3IGF-1? More body fat loss or muscle gain? Thanks.

Re: Re: LR3IGF-I + GH -- Synergistic?

AlbaGuBrath said:

Hi. What kind of results have you experienced from lr3IGF-1? More body fat loss or muscle gain? Thanks.

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this depends entirely on what you eat. it's primarily a repartitioning agent because it's not going to directly liberate fat stores like gh will.

i've eaten like a horse and grown to roughly the size of one.

Re: Re: Re: LR3IGF-I + GH -- Synergistic?

Marble said:

this depends entirely on what you eat. it's primarily a repartitioning agent because it's not going to directly liberate fat stores like gh will.

i've eaten like a horse and grown to roughly the size of one.

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Wow, thanks for the great info. I knew that GH caused the liberation of fat stores, but I didn't know that IGF-1 did not. I guess for pure cutting GH would be better. Thanks again.

Let's say you are going to combine AAS, HGH, IGF, Humalog, & T3, how would one time the HGH, Humalog and IGF? I have heard not to put any of those close together. I was thinking HGH upon waking, IGF prior to workout and of course humalog with post training meal. Problem with that is I workout first thing in the morning, with no options.

Anybody have a clue?

well then even though u work out so early i would say u would still want to keep the humalog done after workout meal/shake for optimum results, as for the hgh you can move it around, it doesnt have to be done early in the day like most think as most think theor natural growth is at night so dont use growth late, but alot of guys are taking it before bed with great results, even one of our guys here biga i think does it late if i read properly, so maybe humalog earl after work out meal so u can have the post workouit meal and then an hour later another meal that usualy accompanyis post slin usage, then mid day use the igf then eat, then at night before bed use the hgh and gear im sure you know when and how

what do u think sound good?