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View Full Version : How long can slin be used continually?



crazyhorse09
04-04-2005, 09:30 PM
Don't know if this belongs here, but I would assume hGH/IGF-1 users would be the most familiar with slin use.

Heard about it causing diabetes if use too long. I am currently going to be running a 22wk cycle and want to run slin @ 6IU's postworkout. I will only use on workout days (4days/wk) and have read numerous posts/articles written on slin (including the sticky on this board). Running 4 days on/3 days off, can I run it for the full 22wks or would I need to stop for a period of time during the cycle?

Thanks folks.

Marble
04-04-2005, 11:36 PM
indefinitely. slin itself will not cause diabetes, but it can uncover existing type 1 diabetic tendencies. duration of use is not a risk factor. it's been used in normal human patients for up to 30 days with no problems, or in type 2 diabetics for 2-10 years. again, the duration of use didn't seem to bear on how their pancreas fared. type 1 diabetes is generally caused by your immune system making an attack on your beta cells, not like other classical shutdowns.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3550785&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8243869&dopt=Abstract

so, from what i can find, playing with it in the first place puts you at risk for type 1 diabetes; using it for a long time doesn't make it any worse.

here's a big writeup i did on the effects of slin, igf-i, and AAS on the pancreas:





the pancreas is one beastly little weird organ, but it's obviously extremely vital. the survival rate for pancreatic cancer is functionally zero percent -- 2-3% -- so it's good to be aware of what we're doing to it, as you suggest.

it's known to be sensitive to androgens, estrogens, and progestins. even weirder, some pancreatic tumors have been known to secrete LH -- what the hell? some have proposed this is an additional way to manage metabolism based on food intake, which makes a little sense.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15233557
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11411203

the pancreas does express AR's, but in relatively low concentrations. the fact that low DHT concentration is implicated in pancreatic cancer implies that androgens exert a direct suppressive effect on pancreatic proliferation, which strikes a chord with the LH/metabolism bullshit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11232645

at the same time, androgens also encourage the production of insulin by the pancreas:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11250923

so as a net sum, it looks like androgens inhibit pancreatic cellular proliferation to some degree, while at the same time encouraging expression of insulin-releasing mRNA. great stuff.



as far as exogenous slin goes, here's one of those cases where we've got a perfect study. i love it when this happens.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11079810

they're giving the rough equivalent of a total of 50iu of slin for a bodybuilder to healthy normal adults and seeing what it does to their pancreas. after 1 month of continuous administration, normal function completely returned after 3 days. instead of shut-down, something weird was experienced:

"Instead of the expected beta-cell rest, the effect appeared to be dual, with insulin secretion decreasing in the basal state and increasing after meals."

i.e. lower serum insulin and higher postprandial levels, which means essentially living in a state of insulin spikes. why this would be rather than shutdown, i don't know. but there's really no risk of shutdown or pancreatic cancer here.

the drugs you *do* need to watch out for having an effect on your pancreas are hgh and igf-i. there's long been known to be a link between low igf-i levels and type 2 diabetes, which is facilitated to a great degree by igf-i's ability to sensitize cells to the effects of slin.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15086355

the igf-i and igf-ii systems are closely involved with the development of the pancreas. various mouse knockout models demonstrate this. igf-i will increase the growth of your pancreatic cells and protect them from apoptosis both; this would be a cancer worry, but will protect you against type 1 diabetes. hgh will do the same. be careful with those drugs.