Test Prop/Mast Prop Combo Conversion Problem

Did I blow it?

I am making a 50ml Test P/Mast P combo at 125mg/100mg, respectively, with 3% BA and 20% BB. I added the powder (6.25gs of TP and 5gs of MP) and solvent and stirred, but the powder didn't seem to dissolve all the way. There were still large clumps of powder floating in it. I then baked the solution for awhile at 300 degrees, but the solution was still a sort of cloudy, chalky white. After that I put the vial in a pan of boiling water for about 20-30mins and the solution was STILL white and cloudy. However, there were no clumps of powder at all. It was just cloudy and chalky looking. At that point I began to think that the chalkiness was possibly just impurities in the powder I received. So I went ahead and filtered the solution through a .2 pore whatman. (Man, it sucks filtering through a .2 pore.) After filtering the solution came out a very light, clear golden color. Now I'm wondering if maybe I filtered out all of the powder. What do you think?

Hey bro

Two questions

1. how long did you bake your gear for?

2. how many filters did you need to create your product?

The answer to 1 is relevant 'cos my last brew of masteron was time dependant - ie I left it in for 20 mins and there was some powder in the bottom of the mixing vial. After another 30 minutes, however it was spot on.

If the answer to Q2 is just 1 filter, then you have no worries... any undissolved hormone would clog the filter sharpish - i've been there. Frustrating.

Personally, I think your batch will be absolutely fine...

bushboy

When did you add the oil? you never mentioned that step. Also why the hell would you boil the gear? I bet you just lost a decent amount of potency that way, heat scares me with hormones, to much and there are stuctural changes and well thats no good. Chances are you still have some gear in there, but not at the concentrations you think you have.

bushidobadboy said:

Hey bro

Two questions

1. how long did you bake your gear for?

2. how many filters did you need to create your product?

The answer to 1 is relevant 'cos my last brew of masteron was time dependant - ie I left it in for 20 mins and there was some powder in the bottom of the mixing vial. After another 30 minutes, however it was spot on.

If the answer to Q2 is just 1 filter, then you have no worries... any undissolved hormone would clog the filter sharpish - i've been there. Frustrating.

Personally, I think your batch will be absolutely fine...

bushboy

Click to expand...

1. I baked it more than 20mins.

2. I only used 1 filter.

Thanks much for the advice.

brew said:

When did you add the oil? you never mentioned that step. Also why the hell would you boil the gear? I bet you just lost a decent amount of potency that way, heat scares me with hormones, to much and there are stuctural changes and well thats no good. Chances are you still have some gear in there, but not at the concentrations you think you have.

Click to expand...

Yes, it's not clear from my post when I added the oil. I added it after I had tried to bake and bathe the powder/solvent alone. I then bathed the entire powder/oil/solvent solution.

I didn't actually *Boil* the gear. I put it in a pan of boiling water. That's quite a bit different than bringing the solution itself to a boil. Also, why are you worried about 212 degrees (boiling temp) when you later bake the solution at temps, in some cases, quite a bit above that? No disrespect intended. Just curious.

Update

So on the advice of a good bro I broke open the Whatman to see what was in there. What I found was maybe an 1/8th of a teaspoon of chalky sludge. Nothing else. Couldn't be more that 10-20mgs all total. If so, I'm thinking that the final product is still usable. Thoughts?

It seems to me that if the Whatman filtered out ALL or substantially ALL of the powder that it would have clogged up the filter long before I was done. Do you agree?

yep.........now about the heat...I don't use it. Heat denatures coumpounds. If I use it it isn't more than 125 degree or so to speed up the solvents dissolving reaction, I never go up around 200 or more. Call me paranoid but I spent too much time in biochem to know that temp of heat at 20-30 will start to do bad things. If you have good sterile technique and don't bet your dog or make it in a shit hole environment there is not need for baking. Thats what the ba and filtering is for. Also water begins to boil at 212 but I bet you went way higher than that as your stoves settings aren't made to turn off at 212, the medium high and high settings are much higher temps. Granted I bet it is still good, but I know your potency has been effected.

Um, Brew I have a couple of questions bro...

You say that 'water begins to boil at 212'. Water ONLY boils at that temp (at sea level, less at altitude). Just 'cos you turn up the setting on your stove, it does not increase the temp of the water... The water remains at boiling point until all of it has vapourised.

I'm curious to know how you get your powder to dissolve if you dont use heat? I thought that heat was essential in getting most hormone powders to dissolve, and that the BA/BB was infact more there to KEEP the hormone dissolved upon cooling... I could easily be wrong on this one, so very keen for your input bro.

cheers
bushboy

I'm not sure I understand what you mean? Water won't boil at 213 degrees? At 212 it begins to boil....jsut like I said......and it will continue to boil at 213....214...215...you get the picture......boiling water could be much higher than the 212 he assumed it is. Its a POINT, not an absolute temp that can't be exceeded. I mean think about it.....thats the same as you telling me water ONLY freezes at 32 F, since thats the freezing point......Now tell me the coldest part of the artic is only 32 F
.......does that clear it up alittle?
How do I get it into solution with no heat? very easily, I'd tell you but then I'd have to kill you. I never add my oil until the solvents and powder mixture are clear. Swirling helps, pateints is the main thing (or real lab equipment, lol) some gear/concentrations are a pain in the ass.......primo ace, bold ace, and higher conc of cyp do require heat, but then again I never use anything near boiling temps. I have a heat plate that I set to 50-70 C and that does it within a few minutes. I know guys who use heat rocks for pet lizards, works well and don't have to worry about gettting to hot. Warm water in a pan (1in) ad then LOW setting is what I used to use.....more is not better.....unless you talking about pateince.
Now to the Ba/BB. Both of these dissolve the compound and hold it into solution, its not a matter of adding them in to prevent crashing when cooling.....the compounds wouldn't even go into solution without ba/bb no matter how much heat you used, MOST hormones are just not oil soluble, thats why you need a carrier solution to get them bonded in oil. Only excemption to this rule are test E and eq, they are oil soluble and can be made with no slovents (although its a bad idea) BA is there mainly as a solvent and bacterialcidal agent. BB is there as a solvent it is a weaker solvent (about 1/3 THE CAPACITY OF BA). BB helps hold it into solution at the injection site as well, keeps it form recyrstalizing in the muscle tissue.
Any more question ect let me know, I gotta stop typing now

Thanks for the reply Brew.

I hear you on the heat issue / ideas, might have to give them a go as most of my brews keep crashing LOL!

Have to respectfully disagree with you on the boiling point thing though... Unless my chemistry lecturer is completely wrong, water reaches boiling point at 100 deg C. We are agreed on this yes? However, the temperature of the water will not increase unless you pressurise it. Hence the reason your cars' cooling system has a pressure cap on it... and hence the reason that a pressure cooker cooks faster than a regular pan of water. If you increase the temp of your ring or turn up the gas, all that happens is that the water boils FASTER, not hotter. To make water hotter than 100 degrees, you HAVE to pressurise it.

All the heat energy goes into vaporising the water. When you freeze water, all the energy leaves the water until All the water is frozen, only then will the temp decrease further. Ice is a solid and as such can be cooled to absolute zero, just like any other solid...

We covered this just las term and it did my head in a bit. Wish my lecturer was here (except that she's a complete bitch - LOL), she explains this SO much better than me.

Look forward to discussing this with you bro.
bushboy

Well school boy, you got me there. I blew the dust of the O chem book and you are right. Once I got to thinking back I remember using oil instead of water for doing melting point tests just for that very reason, the water wouldn't make the range we needed.

Back to the mixing issue. Those hot plate/magnetic stirer combo you guys got in those labs are the ticket to punding out thoroughly mix and well bonded gear, they are worth their weight in gold IMO.I'm not saying stick one in your backpack, but the can be found online used for cheap. I have also seen guys use a poor mans method to this with a pan of water on low and a sterile marble or steel bearing. The marble really helps getting the solutions to mix and the low heat is all you need to speed things up.

brew said:

Well school boy, you got me there. I blew the dust of the O chem book and you are right. Once I got to thinking back I remember using oil instead of water for doing melting point tests just for that very reason, the water wouldn't make the range we needed.

Back to the mixing issue. Those hot plate/magnetic stirer combo you guys got in those labs are the ticket to punding out thoroughly mix and well bonded gear, they are worth their weight in gold IMO.I'm not saying stick one in your backpack, but the can be found online used for cheap. I have also seen guys use a poor mans method to this with a pan of water on low and a sterile marble or steel bearing. The marble really helps getting the solutions to mix and the low heat is all you need to speed things up.

Click to expand...

Haha, yeah sorry to 'geek out' there but hey - part of me IS a geek! I just gotta know...

I really like the marble/bearing idea and will nick it, thanks.

I still dont quite see how you do it (mix powders I mean). I tried mixing the powder and BA/BB before adding the oil (and used a warm water bath, no oven) for some of my first brews and they turned out worst of all... Since using the bake in oven method I've had more 'useable' results.

I'm still puzzled...
bushboy

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