Deca or test suspension h20 recipe?
- Thread starter bigghorn
- Start date
This is the best most detailed recipe i could find. It looks pretty solid to me.
All done, yes the experiment turned out perfect.** The recipe below worked and is used to make 20 ML of test no ester (testosterone suspension in water) at 75mg per ML. **Looks just like Milk too like ****** said it would.The original recipe is from ******, revised by ******(thanks *******!) and I added in as many details and comments as I could to further make this recipe do-able and understandable.
Supplies I used:
*2 ML Benzyl Benzoate (10%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
*.4 ML Benzyl Alcohol (2%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
*.6 ML polysorbate 80 (3%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
* 1.5 grams very finely ground test no ester (testosterone base) powder
* one 5ML syringe used to suck up and hold the above hot solution ingredients. This is the syringe that is attached to the .20um whatman filter (which is in turn attached to an 18 gauge needle into a sterile crimped 20mL vial)
* Mortar and Pestal (usually run about $20 or so) This is very necessary to turn your grainy "sugary looking" test base powder into a test base powder with the consistency of powdered-sugar or talcum powder.
*butter knife (for scraping the test powder that gets stuck to the bottom of the mortar to free it so it can be re-pestalized some more)
*18 gauge and 25 gauge needles
*15.9 ML pre-sterilized water or distilled water your preference
*1 unsterile 20ML vial (no top) and 1 sterile 20ML vial (crimped and sealed)
*1 small funnel (pre-cleaned with rubbing alcohol) used to add the 1.5 grams TNE to the unsterile 20ML vial without spilling
*glass rod
*2 whatman filters (one to filter the hot BA,BB,polysorbate 80, tne solution) and (one to filter the 15.875 water)
Note: I don't use .45 um micron filters, only the .20 um micron filters by Whatman..****** once talked about an experiment his friend did. His friend used a .45 um micron filter to filter an oil based hormone solution..his friend ended up with a staff infection..his friend had to take antibiotics in a hospital to get rid of the infection..******* then took the original vial his friend used and re-filtered it using a .22 um micron filter...******* used the newley .22 um micron filtered solution for weeks and did not get an infection of any kind. Some say Brave man *******! But apparently the .22 um micron filtering catches more of the stuff that a .45 can't catch.
*2" high frying pan filled about 3/4's high with water
*stove or hot plate
*clothes hanger
* 20ML syringe pre-filled with 15.875 distilled water or some pre-sterilized water.
* couple of 3ML syringes used to measure out the BA, BB, and the polysorbate 80.
* 30 or 29 gauge slin pins for shooting, would recommend twice a day (every 12 hours) injects,however, William LLewellyn states in his new book "Anabolics 2006" that "Many reference materials have not given this steroid the proper credit, stating it to be a very crude and ineffective product. Although it may contain testosterone without the benefit of an ester, the MICRO-CRYSTAL design of this injectable will in fact sustain an elevated release for 2-3 days. The suspension we see today is clearly not the basic water plus testosterone design used in the 1940's. And since the drug will not leave circulation in a matter of hours, it is obviously useful. This is not news to the many Americans bodybuilders who have had a chance to experiment with this item, and regard it very highly...A quick shake will temporarily place the drug back into suspension, so that the withdrawn dosage should always be consistent."
* 1 unsterile vial used to hold the 1.5 grams of finely powdered test no ester (the 1.5 gram granular powder was measured out into 5 equal sections, and each section was ground by hand in the mortar and pestal for a total of 4 times. After each grind, the test powder would tend to adhere tightly to the bottom of the mortar, and had to be scraped off into the middle (with the end of a butter-knife) then re-ground with the pestal for a total of 4 times for each section, to achieve very very fine powder. I was pouring sweat after doing about 20 total grinds and had to turn the ac down some more! But I wanted to make sure it was as fine as I could get it. I want this final solution to be able to go thru a 30 gauge slin pin. The 5 finely powder ground sections were then re-combined and re-weighed to make sure I still had 1.5 grams of test no ether powder. The 1.5 grams of powder was added to the unsterile vial with the use of a small funnel... then the benzyl benzoate was added, then the benzyl alcohol was added, then the polysorbate was added.The unsterile vial with the above ingredients was then put into a hot water bath which was brought to boiling, then reduced to a slow simmer. The vial was suspended into the middle of a pan with the hot water via a metal hanger with a circular loop on the end to hold the vial. As the solution became hotter and hotter, the ingredients would all merge until you could no longer see any test no ester granules floating anywhere, it became a nearly completely homogenous solution. The solution in the 20mL vial was stirred every now and then with a glass rod.The pan was then removed from the slow simmer onto another burner which was not on. The solution was then sucked up with a 5ML syringe with an 18 gauge needle. on the table to the side was a sterile vial setup with a .20 um micron whatman filter, 18 gauge needle and a 25 gauge needle off to the side to relieve pressure like you see used all the time.The 5ML syringe with hot solution was then attached to the whatman filter and pushed through to the sterile vial. The solution dropped through the filter one drop at a time as long as necessary force was applied to the filter. After a few minutes, all of the solution was filtered into the sterile vial.The pan of water was then put back on the burner and turned up to cause a slow simmer. The sterile vial was put into the clothes hanger and suspended in the hot water bath. After the solution became very hot again, then the 20ML syringe with 18 gauge needle holding the 15.875 of distilled water was .20 um micron whatman filtered into the sterile vial which was sitting in the hot water bath simmer. This took only about 15 seconds.
* I allowed the solution to sit in the hot water bath (on low-heat simmer) for about 10 additional minutes. This is not necessary however.
* the sterile vial was then removed, but the 25 gauge pin was still left in as the vial cooled to relieve excess pressure.
* While hot and even after the solution cooled to room temperature it took on the appearance of milk, the solution was shaken for a while for additional mixing, and is still holding its homogenous milk appearance even after 20 minutes or so.
* I used *******'s revised method posted above instead of *******'s, but just made it at 75mg/mL instead of at 100mg/ML.
* 2 hours later and the solution still looks just like milk at room temperature.
* May not be necessary, but I bake vial in the oven on bake at 250 degrees F for 15 min with 25 gauge pin stuck in it, then cool it in the fridge for 15 min, then back to the oven for 15 min, then back to the fridge for 15 min, then repeat this process one more time for a total of 3 times. If for some reason a microhole is left in the rubber top that compromises the integrety of the top after the 25 gauge pin is pulled out after all the baking, the micro-hole can be sealed with a tiny drop from a hot glue gun.* Shake well before use* I found the injection to be painless, flowed easily thru a 30 gauge BD insulin needle.
All done, yes the experiment turned out perfect.** The recipe below worked and is used to make 20 ML of test no ester (testosterone suspension in water) at 75mg per ML. **Looks just like Milk too like ****** said it would.The original recipe is from ******, revised by ******(thanks *******!) and I added in as many details and comments as I could to further make this recipe do-able and understandable.
Supplies I used:
*2 ML Benzyl Benzoate (10%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
*.4 ML Benzyl Alcohol (2%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
*.6 ML polysorbate 80 (3%) (use a 3mL syringe to measure out)
* 1.5 grams very finely ground test no ester (testosterone base) powder
* one 5ML syringe used to suck up and hold the above hot solution ingredients. This is the syringe that is attached to the .20um whatman filter (which is in turn attached to an 18 gauge needle into a sterile crimped 20mL vial)
* Mortar and Pestal (usually run about $20 or so) This is very necessary to turn your grainy "sugary looking" test base powder into a test base powder with the consistency of powdered-sugar or talcum powder.
*butter knife (for scraping the test powder that gets stuck to the bottom of the mortar to free it so it can be re-pestalized some more)
*18 gauge and 25 gauge needles
*15.9 ML pre-sterilized water or distilled water your preference
*1 unsterile 20ML vial (no top) and 1 sterile 20ML vial (crimped and sealed)
*1 small funnel (pre-cleaned with rubbing alcohol) used to add the 1.5 grams TNE to the unsterile 20ML vial without spilling
*glass rod
*2 whatman filters (one to filter the hot BA,BB,polysorbate 80, tne solution) and (one to filter the 15.875 water)
Note: I don't use .45 um micron filters, only the .20 um micron filters by Whatman..****** once talked about an experiment his friend did. His friend used a .45 um micron filter to filter an oil based hormone solution..his friend ended up with a staff infection..his friend had to take antibiotics in a hospital to get rid of the infection..******* then took the original vial his friend used and re-filtered it using a .22 um micron filter...******* used the newley .22 um micron filtered solution for weeks and did not get an infection of any kind. Some say Brave man *******! But apparently the .22 um micron filtering catches more of the stuff that a .45 can't catch.
*2" high frying pan filled about 3/4's high with water
*stove or hot plate
*clothes hanger
* 20ML syringe pre-filled with 15.875 distilled water or some pre-sterilized water.
* couple of 3ML syringes used to measure out the BA, BB, and the polysorbate 80.
* 30 or 29 gauge slin pins for shooting, would recommend twice a day (every 12 hours) injects,however, William LLewellyn states in his new book "Anabolics 2006" that "Many reference materials have not given this steroid the proper credit, stating it to be a very crude and ineffective product. Although it may contain testosterone without the benefit of an ester, the MICRO-CRYSTAL design of this injectable will in fact sustain an elevated release for 2-3 days. The suspension we see today is clearly not the basic water plus testosterone design used in the 1940's. And since the drug will not leave circulation in a matter of hours, it is obviously useful. This is not news to the many Americans bodybuilders who have had a chance to experiment with this item, and regard it very highly...A quick shake will temporarily place the drug back into suspension, so that the withdrawn dosage should always be consistent."
* 1 unsterile vial used to hold the 1.5 grams of finely powdered test no ester (the 1.5 gram granular powder was measured out into 5 equal sections, and each section was ground by hand in the mortar and pestal for a total of 4 times. After each grind, the test powder would tend to adhere tightly to the bottom of the mortar, and had to be scraped off into the middle (with the end of a butter-knife) then re-ground with the pestal for a total of 4 times for each section, to achieve very very fine powder. I was pouring sweat after doing about 20 total grinds and had to turn the ac down some more! But I wanted to make sure it was as fine as I could get it. I want this final solution to be able to go thru a 30 gauge slin pin. The 5 finely powder ground sections were then re-combined and re-weighed to make sure I still had 1.5 grams of test no ether powder. The 1.5 grams of powder was added to the unsterile vial with the use of a small funnel... then the benzyl benzoate was added, then the benzyl alcohol was added, then the polysorbate was added.The unsterile vial with the above ingredients was then put into a hot water bath which was brought to boiling, then reduced to a slow simmer. The vial was suspended into the middle of a pan with the hot water via a metal hanger with a circular loop on the end to hold the vial. As the solution became hotter and hotter, the ingredients would all merge until you could no longer see any test no ester granules floating anywhere, it became a nearly completely homogenous solution. The solution in the 20mL vial was stirred every now and then with a glass rod.The pan was then removed from the slow simmer onto another burner which was not on. The solution was then sucked up with a 5ML syringe with an 18 gauge needle. on the table to the side was a sterile vial setup with a .20 um micron whatman filter, 18 gauge needle and a 25 gauge needle off to the side to relieve pressure like you see used all the time.The 5ML syringe with hot solution was then attached to the whatman filter and pushed through to the sterile vial. The solution dropped through the filter one drop at a time as long as necessary force was applied to the filter. After a few minutes, all of the solution was filtered into the sterile vial.The pan of water was then put back on the burner and turned up to cause a slow simmer. The sterile vial was put into the clothes hanger and suspended in the hot water bath. After the solution became very hot again, then the 20ML syringe with 18 gauge needle holding the 15.875 of distilled water was .20 um micron whatman filtered into the sterile vial which was sitting in the hot water bath simmer. This took only about 15 seconds.
* I allowed the solution to sit in the hot water bath (on low-heat simmer) for about 10 additional minutes. This is not necessary however.
* the sterile vial was then removed, but the 25 gauge pin was still left in as the vial cooled to relieve excess pressure.
* While hot and even after the solution cooled to room temperature it took on the appearance of milk, the solution was shaken for a while for additional mixing, and is still holding its homogenous milk appearance even after 20 minutes or so.
* I used *******'s revised method posted above instead of *******'s, but just made it at 75mg/mL instead of at 100mg/ML.
* 2 hours later and the solution still looks just like milk at room temperature.
* May not be necessary, but I bake vial in the oven on bake at 250 degrees F for 15 min with 25 gauge pin stuck in it, then cool it in the fridge for 15 min, then back to the oven for 15 min, then back to the fridge for 15 min, then repeat this process one more time for a total of 3 times. If for some reason a microhole is left in the rubber top that compromises the integrety of the top after the 25 gauge pin is pulled out after all the baking, the micro-hole can be sealed with a tiny drop from a hot glue gun.* Shake well before use* I found the injection to be painless, flowed easily thru a 30 gauge BD insulin needle.
Yes sir .. I believe so and 5%Ba is stated and I see pain in that. And my daughter while making it for her project plugged her 45 iu filter up with base powder and shot matter all over the floor when filter ruptured so we are on the prowl to locate a new convienent method. Her essay will finish soon we hope.
Doctormotiv8or
New member
LOL I have seen this problem ran into as well, Filter clogged and rupture or even broken filters.
gator_mclusky
New member
Good stuff as seems nobody really makes Suspension anymore and Im having a hell prollem finding Dom Winstrol....
Doctormotiv8or
New member
Winstrol is easy to make. At least that is what my neighbor told me.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
gator_mclusky
New member
Can you get the recipe my good man?
nah, everything is just as good in oil in my opinion
Powderguy
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
I agree with this, however there are easier ways to suspend in H2O.
You need a clean vial with a stopper, you can sterilize any vial buy submerging it in warm alcohol of 91 proof or higher, isopropyl works well.
You must heat the alcohol to remove any substances that may adhere to the vial and destroy any bacteria.
You will need bacteriostatic water and your powder.
I did winny in this way, no lie it hurt like a B!@$# but it was effective and I never got an infection.
Place powder in dry vial, add your amount of bacter-water and don't forget the displacement. Place your stopper on it press down and shake.
Yes it really is that easy with water based solutions.
I always had a sterile clean vial to place the suspension in. Use an 18 gauge needle clean the stopper with alcohol remove the suspension and place in a clean sterile vial for storage. Shake every time before use.
This will create a viable suspension for injection, however with all suspensions this will be uncomfortable but effective. If making winny an oral I recommend a different recipe.
I do have a recipe that suspends winny in oil, however its not perfect (yet) and does separate if left to sit for a month or so but I'm working on it since winny is not oil and water soluble.
Doctormotiv8or
New member
I disagree with this just because the powder you are putting there could be contaminated. You didn't hear it to get rid of germs and than you didn't filter to get microbes or anything out of it. Maybe I'm not the expert here and it is that easy but I would have to trust the source it came from that it was one hundred percent sterile and ready for my body.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Doctormotiv8or
New member
Didn't heat it*
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
gator_mclusky
New member
Well I shoot eod so Im looking for the least pain as possible. Ive done a ton of "uncomfortable" cycles and Im just tired of ewm. I did happen along a place that has the Winstrol in water thankfully.
As for it being just as good wether it be oil of water I have to respectfully disagree. Upjohn is a multi million pharmaceutical company and if they, along with Winthrop and Sterris use "water" then I tend to think they may know more about it than us bodybuilders. I wish it was just as good as that would make things a whole lot simpler for me! lol Ive used em both and cant help but think I got better results from the chemical being held in a water based solution. Same with Test Suspension. I think they get into the bloodline faster in water. JMHO
Doctormotiv8or
New member
I can agree with gator, the pain difference isn't that much different. I have done both and the long term pledge to of guiacol and EO well their known to be toxic in the human body. On the other hand I do know that Presser has had infection from water based and that is a huge concern. That is why I call BS on making it the easy way like Powder Guy said. No way would I be ok putting that in my body. I appreciate the help of he has tried to give but respectfully decline.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Powderguy
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Im with you, what people tend to forget is that everything has to be clean. I use sterile vials, clean everything with bleach and use gloves etc before I do any. I don't think that's assumed anymore and most just go with exactly what they read. I have made suspension several times, is it my favorite, hell no..but it works.
I do agree, there is always a risk and always a potential that your powder isn't pure or isn't even what you ordered-Im speaking from my experiences alone and I know my powder is pure and I now exactly what it is.
Water based, I would and have ever only use 2 from pre-made companies and I trust them but only 2 that I know of that are UGL. Other than that, WB products I would not recommend making or buying from an UGL unless you have had experience with it..for some its hit or miss.
Just my opinion
I do agree, there is always a risk and always a potential that your powder isn't pure or isn't even what you ordered-Im speaking from my experiences alone and I know my powder is pure and I now exactly what it is.
Water based, I would and have ever only use 2 from pre-made companies and I trust them but only 2 that I know of that are UGL. Other than that, WB products I would not recommend making or buying from an UGL unless you have had experience with it..for some its hit or miss.
Just my opinion
Doctormotiv8or
New member
So now you are saying don't make or buy WB. You're contradicting what you said.
I take all precautions as well when home brewing. Sterile vials, cleaning with bleach and gloves. But that has nothing to do with the powder itself. The powder would have to be sterile. You would need to know where it was from, how it was handled. I would assume that in some place they have a bulk barrel. You order 100 g of powder and they grab a scoop that isn't sterile and scoop out your powder. For me to think for one second that it is like surgery for these guys to grab out 100 grams of this and 50 grams of that and think it is sterile anyone would think you're an idiot. You , me or anybody in that sense would be stupid to think their powder shows up sterile. I know my powder is legit and high purity but it doesn't mean it is sterile.
I do appreciate your input and I'm just trying to understand your point of view is all.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Powderguy
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
You are correct, nothing is 100% sterile wwhen it comes to that subject. Your body can tolerate some bacteria and unsterile situations. My point of view is when it comes to WB products, I know for aa fact a lot of labs do not filter. they pre heat, add the Bact water and powder in solution heat place in sterile vials.
This is how one of the labs of Schering did it, it was amazing that nobody complained of infections. I see where you feel im contradicting, but my opinion is just that MY opinion. I worked in biotech for 33 years (shows my age) and I have seen, run and been through every process for this type of subject...
The HK manufacturer plants do have what you described. Some do take from the barrels, most have lots of large boxes with bag liners and they sit in clean rooms.
If you do mail order with a re-mailer of course your powder is not sterile and in no way should be considered so.
So my question is how do you make WB products sterile? The process I have seen is just like I described above..however the bact water is pre heated to a temp just before boil off and powder is added, they its sent to a cooling chamber and from there placed in sterile vials, all self contained and done my machines.
The only suspension I have ever successfully made that was injectable and filtered I posted in the labs forum..feel free to critique that as well.
I appreciate the conversation, makes one think outside the box.
This is how one of the labs of Schering did it, it was amazing that nobody complained of infections. I see where you feel im contradicting, but my opinion is just that MY opinion. I worked in biotech for 33 years (shows my age) and I have seen, run and been through every process for this type of subject...
The HK manufacturer plants do have what you described. Some do take from the barrels, most have lots of large boxes with bag liners and they sit in clean rooms.
If you do mail order with a re-mailer of course your powder is not sterile and in no way should be considered so.
So my question is how do you make WB products sterile? The process I have seen is just like I described above..however the bact water is pre heated to a temp just before boil off and powder is added, they its sent to a cooling chamber and from there placed in sterile vials, all self contained and done my machines.
The only suspension I have ever successfully made that was injectable and filtered I posted in the labs forum..feel free to critique that as well.
I appreciate the conversation, makes one think outside the box.
Doctormotiv8or
New member
So I have done a few different recipes. Some oils some water I have a 75 mg oil base. But I'm not a fan of EO and guiacol. So I have done water at 50 and I filter it with a 45 um filter goes through just fine and doesn't crash. The biggest thing is at the end of the bottle there is still product in the bottom. And maybe there wouldn't be if I pinned with a 20-23 gauge which I don't want to do. I have used suspension base that you can push through a 29 gauge. I have made some as well but used a little guiacol in it. Maybe I just have some wishful thinking. I have thought about doing it how you said but than I thought there is no way that is safe. I think if you use straight powder the way you said you would have to mortar pestle it and then use poly to make sure it didn't clump.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Doctormotiv8or
New member
Btw I didn't see your post on the recipe besides in here. Did you post another somewhere else?
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.
Powderguy
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
I honestly never made a WB deca suspension when NPP is available. Test Susp WB I have not had much success with, without titration after the solution cools. I believe its the filtration that's causing it. The filtration process cools the solution rapidly which will cause clogging, if its in oil then its not really a suspension, I will make the test base the same as I did the winny recipe and see if it holds. After I am done with all this I may need a tester
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