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  1. #1
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology Intramuscular Injection Certified Board Certified MD
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    Default Nolvadex or Clomid for PCT. Nolva Clo Post Cycle Therapy Cycles

    Nolva vs. Clomid for PCT

    by liftsiron
    It seems like everyday questions concerning PCT pop up, and weather one should
    use either Clomid or nolva or a combo of both. I hope that this article written
    by BigCat may help to clear up some misconceptions.
    While practically similar compounds in structure, few people ever really consider
    Clomid and nolva to be similar. Its not just a common myth in steroid circles,
    but even in the medical community. This misconception originates from their
    completely different uses. Nolvadex is most commonly used for the treatment
    of breast cancer in women, while Clomid is generally considered a fertility
    aid. In bodybuilding circles, from day one, Clomid has generally been used as
    post-cycle therapy and Nolvadex as an anti-estrogen.
    But as I intend to demonstrate this is in essence the same. I believe the myth
    to have originated because nolva is clearly a more powerful anti-estrogen, and
    the people selling Clomid needed another angle to sell the stuff, so it was
    mostly used as a post-cycle aid. But few users really understand how Clomid
    (and also Nolvadex, logically) works to bring back natural testosterone in the
    body after the conclusion of a cycle of androgenic anabolic steroids. After
    a cycle is over, the level of androgens in the body drop drastically. The body
    compensates with an overproduction of estrogen to keep steroid levels up. Estrogen
    as well inhibits the production of natural testosterone, and in the period between
    the return of natural testosterone and the end of a cycle, a lot of mass is
    lost. So its in everybodyís best interest to bring back natural test as soon
    as humanly possible. Clomid and Nolvadex will reduce the post-cycle estrogen,
    so that a steroid deficiency is constated and the hypothalamus is stimulated
    to regenerate natural testosterone production in the body. Thatís basically
    how the mechanism works, nothing more, nothing less.
    Both compounds are structurally alike, classified as triphenylethylenes. Nolvadex
    is clearly the stronger component of the two as it can achieve better results
    in decreasing overall estrogen with 20-40 mg a day, than Clomid can in doses
    of 100-150 mg a day. A noteworthy difference. Triphenylethylenes are very mild
    estrogens that do not exert a lot, if any activity at the estrogen receptor,
    but are still highly attracted to it. As such they will occupy the receptor
    and keep it from binding estrogens. This means they do not actively work to
    reduce estrogen in the body like Proviron, Viratase or arimidex would (by competing
    for the aromatase enzyme), but that it blocks the receptor so that any estrogen
    in the body is basically inert, because it has no receptor to bind to.
    This has advantages and disadvantages. The disadvantage is that when use is
    discontinued, the estrogen level is still the same and new problems will develop
    much sooner. The advantage is that it works much faster and has results sooner
    than with an aromatase blocker like Proviron or arimidex. Therefor, when problems
    such as gynocomastia occur during a cycle of steroids one will usually start
    20 mg/day of nolva or 100 mg/day of Clomid straight away, in conjunction with
    some Proviron or arimidex. The proviron or arimidex will actively reduce estrogen
    while the Clomid or Nolvadex will solve your ongoing problem straight away.
    This way, when use is discontinued there is no immediate rebound.
    So which one should you use? Well personally, Iíd have to say Nolvadex. Both
    as an on-cycle anti-estrogen and a post-cycle therapy. As an anti-estrogen its
    simply much stronger, demonstrated by the fact that better results are obtained
    with 20-40 mg than with 100-150 mg of Clomid. For post-cycle, this plays a key
    role as well. It deactivates rebound estrogen much faster and more effective.
    But most importantly, Nolvadex has a direct influence on bringing back natural
    testosterone, where as Clomid may actually have a slight negative influence.
    The reason being that tamoxifen (as in Nolvadex) seems to increase the responsiveness
    of LH (luteinizing hormone) to GnRH (gonadtropin releasing hormone), whereas
    Clomid seems to decrease the responsiveness a bit1.
    Another noteworthy fact about Nolvadex is that it acts more potently as an
    estrogen in the liver. As you remember, I mentioned that clomiphene and tamoxifen
    are basically weak estrogens. Well, tamoxifen is apparently still quite potent
    in the liver. This offers us the positive benefits of this hormone in the liver,
    while avoiding its negative effects elsewhere in the body. As such Nolvadex
    can have a very positive impact on negative cholesterol levels2 in the body,
    and therefore too should be considered a better choice than Clomid. It will
    not solve the problem of bad cholesterol levels during Steroid use, but will
    help to contain the problem to a larger degree.
    Another reason why I promote the use of Nolvadex over Clomid post-cycle (as
    if being 3-4 times stronger and having more of a direct effect on restoring
    natural test wasnít enough) is because itís a lot safer. Not just because it
    improves lipid profiles, but also because it simply doesnít have the intrinsic
    side-effects that Clomid has. Clomid causes more acne for sure, but thatís mainly
    because you need to use a 3-4 times higher dose. But Clomid seems to also affect
    the eyesight. Long-term Clomid therapy causes irreversible changes in eyesight3
    in users. Irreversible. For me that alone is reason enough to prefer Nolvadex.
    Lastly, one should be aware that use of these compounds can reduce the gains
    made on steroids. Nolvadex more so than Clomid, simply because it is stronger.
    Estrogen is responsible for a number of anabolic factors such as increasing
    growth hormone output, upgrading the androgen receptor and improving glucose
    utilization. This is why aromatizing steroids like testosterone are still best
    suited for maximum muscle gain. When reducing the estrogen levels, we therefore
    reduce the potential gains being made. For this reason one may opt to try Clomid
    during a cycle instead of Nolvadex. Although I would imagine that the problem
    that needed solved would be of more concern, in which case nolva remains the
    weapon of choice. Itís a plain fact that there is a high correlation between
    gains and side-effects. Either you go for maximum gains and tolerate the side-effects,
    or you reduce the side-effects, and with it the gains. Thatís life, nothing
    is free.
    Stacking and Use:
    If problems of Gynocomastia or other estrogen related symptoms tend to pop
    up during a cycle the use of 20-30 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid daily
    should easily contain the problem, and be used until a few days after the problem
    subsides. For best results and the least amount of problems upon cessation it
    is best stacked with Proviron (50 mg) or arimidex (0.5 mg) for this duration
    as well. Its not advised that these products be ran concomitantly with the steroid
    for the entire duration of the stack, as this will reduce your gains. Instead
    cease the usage of anti-estrogens once the problem is contained, and should
    the problem resurface, simply recommence the use of the products in the same
    manner as described above.
    Once a cycle of steroids is concluded one should always initiate a post-cycle
    therapy to help bring back natural testosterone as soon as possible. This will
    help you to retain the mass you gained. How this is done depends highly on the
    type of steroid used. If only orals were used, therapy should start immediately,
    even the last day of the stack. If short-acting esters or water-based injectables
    were used, therapy should commence within 4-7 days after last injection, and
    if long-acting esters were used then it should commence 1.5 to 2 weeks after
    the last injection was given. The length of the therapy will vary as well, from
    3-5 weeks. The longer acting the product was, the longer therapy should be continued
    to make sure all suppressive factors are cleared before use of Clomid/Nolvadex
    is discontinued.
    For best results, it is best stacked with HCG (Human Chorionic gonadotrophin),
    which functions as an LH analog and can help bring testicle size back up. HCG
    use starts the last week of a cycle, and on from there every 5-6 days (usually
    1500-3000 IU) and discontinued 1.5 to weeks prior to the cessation of Nolvadex/clomid.
    The reason being that HCG itself is also suppressive of natural testosterone
    and should be out of the body before therapy is over, or it will inhibit natural
    testicle function. But I can not stress enough that HCG possibly plays a more
    important role in post-cycle therapy than clomid/Nolvadex. For Clomid and Nolvadex,
    doses are usually tapered down. Its best to start with 40-50 mg of Nolvadex
    or 150 mg of Clomid for the first week or the first two weeks, and then finish
    the program with 20-25 mg of Nolvadex or 100 mg of Clomid for an additional
    two weeks.
    Author: Ben Presser
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology
    Intramuscular Injection Certified

    Aromatase Inhibitors, Post Cycle Therapy, Stenabolic, GW, Osta, LGD, S4 and IGF 1 Store

  2. #2
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    MMMmmm read this and it states that HCG should be used in pct yet in the other thread it says it should not be used..also in this thread it says that long term use of clomid can lead to vision problems that are ireversible yet in the other thread it state's that it is reversible once clomid is stopped.the other thread i read was..
    (recovery of nat testosterone).makes u go crazy right..lol.there is never a right path..
    ONLY THE DARK SIDE..
    Likes Presser, KngShisa liked this post
     

  3. #3
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology Intramuscular Injection Certified Board Certified MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliebigspuds View Post
    MMMmmm read this and it states that HCG should be used in pct yet in the other thread it says it should not be used..also in this thread it says that long term use of clomid can lead to vision problems that are ireversible yet in the other thread it state's that it is reversible once clomid is stopped.the other thread i read was..
    (recovery of nat testosterone).makes u go crazy right..lol.there is never a right path..
    ONLY THE DARK SIDE..
    lmao, thats the internet for ya ! Thats why you find a board like this and get comfortable with who is who, and see who knows what and who doesn't, and try to get help from one another and take from their personal experiences. Thats my take on it anyhow!

    Sites like this were a GOD send back in the day when there was just a couple of us around, but now days with everyone full of shit and what not, and people pushing their own agendas, well i have to agree with ya, things get so fucked up and contradictory lol
    Author: Ben Presser
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology
    Intramuscular Injection Certified

    Aromatase Inhibitors, Post Cycle Therapy, Stenabolic, GW, Osta, LGD, S4 and IGF 1 Store

  4. #4
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology Intramuscular Injection Certified Board Certified MD
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    Oldy but still solid, bumping it up for a solid clomid nolvadex read , and adding it to www.ClomidPCT.com as well as www.NolvadexPCT.com asap.
    Author: Ben Presser
    Ph.D. P.E.D. Kinesiology
    Intramuscular Injection Certified

    Aromatase Inhibitors, Post Cycle Therapy, Stenabolic, GW, Osta, LGD, S4 and IGF 1 Store

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