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02-11-2017, 11:27 PM #51
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I am sorry lol. I thought this was thread. Your cycle looks good I would adjust pct as stated the read above is hcg protocol and I only have used letro as ai.
Aromasin alot of guys run 12.5 eod maybe start with half of that. U would get better response if u started a thread
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02-12-2017, 04:11 AM #52
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MuscleMechanic, thanks a lot for your comments! Much appreciated! So anyways:
1. I agree with you: Aromasin is a suicidal AI, and since it takes time (typically up to 3 days) for your cells to synthesize new enzyme, despite its short t(1/2) 25mg EOD should actually work.
2. True, there are more posts on HCG, but they also offer different protocols for HGC, so building on a previous post, and if I get your suggestions right I should change my protocol as follows:
How does it look to you now? Any more comments/suggestions?Week Dianabol TestE Nolva Clomid Aromasin HCG 1 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 2 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 3 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 4 40 mg/day 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 5 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 6 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 7 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 8 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 9 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 10 500 mg/week 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 11 ---- ---- ---- ---- 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 12 ---- ---- ---- ---- 25mg EOD 500 iu/week 13 40 mg/day 100 mg/day 14 40 mg/day 100 mg/day 15 20mg/day 50 mg/day 16 20mg/day 50 mg/day
Again thanks a lot for taking the time to review!
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02-12-2017, 05:35 AM #53
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Sorry, I had missed your last answer before I replied to your post! :-D
However I was mainly unsure on what to do with HCG, this is why I did not start a thread, as I had the feeling there was some specific knowledge here on how to run the protocol.
OK got your suggestion on Aromasin. I know most people will run letrozole or anastrozole, I am just afraid of the effects on plasma lipids on the one hand, and on the other on oestrogen rebound (from aromatase sudden activation after cutting the AI). But I recognise there is merit to your approach! So again many thanks. Obviously any suggestion on how to optimise before starting is welcome and appreciated.
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02-12-2017, 10:07 AM #54
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I have used letro for years. My lipids always been good. Aromasin affects lipids the same and do does adex. They are compared mg to mg and total ability to knock estro down.
Having estro lower is what causes lipids to be bad or too bad.
They all the same some easy to find sweet spot than others. The trick is just enough but not too much so u may wanna start Aromasin lower.
It only should be upped if necessary.
Hcg do not run last 2 weeks while letting ester clear. U want Lh and FH signals until suppressed during pct which hcg does
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02-12-2017, 02:09 PM #55
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02-12-2017, 02:48 PM #56
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My auto spell been acting up. Hcg will suppress FH & LH signals and u do not want that going into pct. So hcg should be stopped 2 weeks before pct.
I will look for a good protocol for u. I will be honest I never have used hcg.
Hcg can cause estro that even an ai can't control.
If it were me I would consider using it risky.
If u only doing a cycle I believe u will be fine without but I am pretty sure that 500 a week or twice a week maybe 250 twice that is what I need to confirm.
I will ask someone experiences with hcg or ask them to chime in. By this afternoon u will have your answer.
On AI use its not that some or worse on lipids than others, it's that the lower u put your estro on any with be bad for lipids.
Letro has ability to lower it the most, then adex, then Aromasin.
Aromasin only differs by suicide completely deactivating aromatase enzymes bound to.
Other two(adex letro), the enzymes they bound to can become active again if half life of adex or letro runs too low before those enzyme are metabolized. After aromatasing steroids are discontinued for all ai's the result will be same except timing to stop other two should be enough to enzymes bound to, to be metabolized. We talking days.
Or with other two they sound be dosed often enough but not to high of dose too often.
Aromasin easier to adjust without crashing.
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03-14-2017, 12:04 AM #57
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HCG Question
I'm one week into my first ever cycle. I read a ton of stuff before landing on what I felt was a good, safe first cycle, but I still have a question about HCG.
Weeks:
1-12 500mg / Test C / Once per week
250IU / HCG / E3D
14-17 50mg / Clomid Daily
14-15 40mg / Nolva Daily
16-17 20mg / Nolva Daily
I have not started the HCG yet. Are you saying I shouldn't start it until weeks 9-12?
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03-14-2017, 12:12 AM #58
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I am not a hcg pro. Lol!
I never used it but I have read enough.
U are on test c or e u wanna first use it 2x per week.
Ex 250 Monday 250 Thursday
It will take a bit to have shut down on long esters so u wanna use it at that point when shit down occurs.
Use it 250 iu 2x a week
Use it only to keep boys working.
Then don't use 2-3 weeks before pct.
Good luck brother. Hitting sack! It's late
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03-14-2017, 12:19 AM #59
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Use your test c or e 2x wk.
Not once peaks and Valleys from unstable levels will create estro
And hcg use 2x week as well around 6 weeks u can use and stop 2-3 weeks before pct.
That is what I believe is best protocol with creating extra estro from testosterone highs and lows especially with hcg
And without causing suppression going into pct or during.
Hcg is a false suppressive negative feedback creating signal so pct to use will make u think u good but it will be false kind of like doing test in pct.
One is given testosterone balls don't have to make so they stop and other is false signal to make balls work that is suppressive.
Nolva and clomid won't do this by hcg will so don't use it in pct or before 3 weeks!
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05-17-2017, 01:40 PM #60
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Can anyone help me with the Nolvadex, Clomide and HCG. And how to use it and should I use it?
Do I need AI stuf like Arimidex or Aromasine for this cycle?
I heard if I will have problem with gyno during cycle to take 10-20mg of Nolva to reduce estrogen?
I read alot and a lot of people say that HCG is not needed for this kind of a cycle, but to take Nolva and Clomide 2 weeks after cycle to bring LH and FSH(40/40/20/20 and 100/100/50/50).
And then I will take Maca powder,Tribulus, DAA and Zinc. To bring up my natural test to max.
I will use Test E. 1cc/250mg E5D (1-10 weeks) and Turinabol 40mg ED(1-4 weeks)
Q: Is this your first cycle?
A: Yes, it is.
Q: Are you aware of the stuff that can go wrong?
A: Yes I am and I want to prevent them.
Thx alot.
Cheers
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07-12-2017, 05:54 PM #61
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Question: Can you take HCG alone to raise T levels and if so would the T level raise high enough to have to take an aromatizer?
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07-12-2017, 06:24 PM #62
yes and no
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07-12-2017, 07:00 PM #63
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It is a false signal and can and will create negive feed back!!!
Clomid can be used for that.
Hcg just to keep battery from losing charge completely when runningon gas.
Like an alternator that just keeps things from totally dying.
It can wake up something not working in long time but the things I mentioned and to verify if HTPA verification of working.
Those are my options on studies I read.
It's best use is during long cycle to keep truck in shed protect it some!!!
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07-13-2017, 08:58 AM #64
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I got caught w my pants down recently, me and a buddy got ripped off leaving me to cold turkey, been off everything without PCT for 4 wks now, surprisingly have maintained almost everything except my desire to train hard, but will have gear coming in a wk or two.
The lesson here is have PCT on hand at all times, you never know when you will have to use it!
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07-13-2017, 11:31 AM #65
ok, i didnt read the article or all the comments, so Im just gonna throw in my two cents on HCG. I see no point to run it during a cycle, and would use it post cycle only. Basically, wait one week after your last dose/shot and then I would do two weeks of clomid, and then would do two weeks of HCG, and that will do it. Keep it simple guys.
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07-13-2017, 04:18 PM #66
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It doesn't work that way, new studies confirmed it ups your test but is suppressive in its self so further evidence proved it only should be run with TRT to keep function or on cycle so u not completely shut down with testes not functioning at all.
Mean in cycle it's like oxygen mask helping them breathe
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07-26-2017, 01:11 PM #67
Yeah, I posted those studies around here some place, and I was always against HCG during steroid cycle, and thought it was a waste of time. I preached that here for many many years, until reading the newest studies, and one article in particular and its pretty conclusive, that is by far most beneficial to take it alongside your steroid cycle and not just intermittent shots during post cycle.
Of course , many bodybuilders have taken it at the end during their post steroid cycle therapy and it worked well for them, but the articles and studies out now show conclusive evidence that taking HCG during steroid or hormone treatment / cycles will aid in your ability to bounce back naturally much much MUCH faster, and more importantly bounce back more COMPLETELY!
As when taking these hormones without being accompanied by H.C.G. and only using it at the end, your losing your ability to charge back up fully so to speak when it comes to natty testosterone and such.
Let me see, for the newbies, with whom im likely not explaining this to well for, and NukNuk, I know you understand what im saying right? if not and for the rest of the community it goes like this:
Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid cycle without running HCG with it, and only at the end, will only be able to charge back up maxed out at 75% of its initial capacity!
Battery @ 100% fresh and new, then starts a steroid/hormone cycle accompanies by HCG throughout cycle, at the end of cycle will be able to charge back up to damn Near 100%
Anyhow, we now a Have Testosterone Replacement Doctor Who has his own forum here for public and private questions, we should se what he thinks about this?
However, I am going by the recent studies , and if theyre true, and precise, and I have zero reason to believe otherwise, then yeah, I have changed my opinion on this issue, and Opinion I once held for many many years and felt strongly about.
Anyhow, great thread here!
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07-26-2017, 01:42 PM #68
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08-16-2017, 02:33 PM #69
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08-28-2017, 01:01 AM #70
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great info. I am very new to this and didn't start here so I've seen a lot of information that doesn't match in other areas. Seems you guys have more info than my doctor. My question is this. I'm on test c. started out on a HCG by itself for a month or so. It was great at first but then the effects left at a couple weeks. This makes sense based on your info. I was then switched to Test Cyp. 100mg 2x/ week. I've been on this for 11 weeks now and I would like to stop. Do I need to do PCT for such a small dose? I have a new vial of HCG. I was told to stay on HCG 500iu daily during my test therapy. This seems like a lot of HCG based on what I've read. I stopped HCG a couple weeks ago after seeing another article.Thanks so much!Last edited by Heyheyhey; 08-29-2017 at 05:09 PM.
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09-15-2017, 01:55 PM #71
Did you start a new thread asking this question? When asking at the end of larger postings new questions sometimes get overlooked.
I would say you should have stayed on the hcg during cypionate injections.
If you have not already done so, you should check out entourage hormones forum here. trtdoc is who runs it. he can steer you in the proper direction being TRT and hcg is his specialtyPresser liked this post
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12-25-2017, 03:53 PM #72
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05-07-2018, 08:22 AM #73
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05-07-2018, 01:59 PM #74
The far superior protocol is to start HCG 2 weeks BEFORE AAS use and then continue throughout , up to PCT. The second most effective route is to wait until all AAS has left the body and then blast HCG. This is backed up by a few studies.
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06-24-2018, 12:34 PM #75
indeed it is brutha! It changed my way of thinking (the latest studies)
Great thread and useful information on HCG how to guide and dosage protocol
What is best to use with HCG post cycle, how long to continue HCG once cycle is over.
And I am really not understanding why we get so many questions regarding HCG with HRT or TRT, whats the point??
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07-18-2018, 07:49 PM #76
Takes some serious discipline to do things properly, and i would even guess no one starts HCG 2 weeks prior to their steroid cycle. But it sure would make Post Cycle Therapy Life a whole lot easier!
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07-19-2018, 03:56 PM #77
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07-19-2018, 04:03 PM #78
welcome, and happy to have you with us!
I think the jury had deliberated so to speak, and at very least HCG throughout cycle, the starting it 2 weeks prior to cycle, maybe dean can elaborate on more, but its pretty much the same principle goal in being able to recover closer to normal than otherwise would you without this protocol
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07-19-2018, 04:27 PM #79
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Thanks Presser!
Yeah, I am very interested in the reasoning for the 2 week pre load so to say.
To think, I thought I had it finally figured out after speaking to a few pros who are pretty big blood sticklers. This is what they advised:
One week after last pin:
Minor Cycle - 500-750mg (Perhaps 1kmg) Test E
HCG: week1 after last pin 1000ius EOD 8 days = 4,000ius
week 2 after last pin 500ius EOD 8 days = 2,000ius
take clomid 50/nolva 20 duration hcg
Hard Cycle:
HCG: wk1 - 1kius ED for 5 days
500iusED or 1kius EOD for remaining 10-12 days
Clomid 100/Nolva40 duration of hcg
My only concerns were low clomid and nolva dose, as well as a 16 day total pct.
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07-21-2018, 04:45 PM #80
sorry man, ur post was moderated by our auto spam filter for some reason, and i didnt see it until right now, and approved it so now everyone can see it. Again sorry, this fucking filter moderating system needs to go lol.
as for the pro's and their take on it, im sure its vastly different than say guys just cycling a couple times a year on and off.
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08-26-2018, 12:41 PM #81
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So I found a thread kind of old from mesorx; looks to be on point basically saying take HCG while on cycle is the best way to go. The guy was basically explaining that if you take it near the end or say before PCT; a hefty hefty dose is needed and maybe that won't even jump start your balls back to 100%. Looking at how all this new info(well new to me) is coming out every1 is saying to ditch the clomid/nolva and just run hcg while on cycle and once your done with your cycle shoot triptamorelin and then your good to go. Here is the thread though https://thinksteroids.com/community/...le.134314657/; also Jerry Ward and this dude Spartan made a vid that goes in the lines of what I am saying https://www.anabolicsteroidsunleashe...the-truth.html. Would like to see what yall think of it?
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08-26-2018, 01:00 PM #82
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08-26-2018, 01:19 PM #83
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Agreed!!! Minus the Triptorelin!!!
Hcg during cycle and let get out system preventing neg feedback 3 to 4 weeks before pct!!
This is a fact of suppression with hcg in the case of coming off gear and doing pct!!
Yes hcg can benifit stimulation of testes with Clomid in treating low testosterone, BUT for coming back pct route NO HCG in pct or 3-4 weeks before.
Best way put is on cycle hcg will keep batteries in truck on a low charge while parked in garage while we using our biggef truck!!!
Keep things working, so they never come to complete hault!!! But hcg is a false signal mimicking LH And FSH but our body thinks it's LH and causes suppression thru neg feedback.
In pct Nolva and Clomid are used to stimulate LH and FSH production.
The area that needs to recover is LH and FSH so our testes makes test. Hcg makes our testes make test but it shut down our natural signal of LH and FSH.
It's that simple if HCG was the answer then it would be gold standard of TRT before testosterone, even though it still is an option before testosterone.
But not for PCT!! Very important with new studies and info.
I ellabareted for those who can benifit.
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08-26-2018, 01:51 PM #84
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So basically running typical 250-500 mg 2x on HCG while on cycle then after ur done continue on with PCT with Nolva and Clomid. Thing is why is Nolva/Clomid needed together when they almost work the same properties?
Tamoxifen, a related antiestrogen, comparable to Clomid in terms of its ability to compete with E2 for pituitary estrogen receptors, was without effect on the GnRH-stimulated LH release at a concentration of 10(-7) M. Furthermore, tamoxifen, unlike Clomid, caused an apparent but not statistically significant inhibition of the sensitizing effect of E2 on the GnRH-stimulated release of LH. Our findings suggest that Clomid and its Enclomid isomer, unlike tamoxifen, exert a direct estrogenic rather than an antiestrogenic effect on cultured pituitary cells by enhancing the GnRH-stimulated release of gonadotropin.
Seems to me that running Clomid would be fine; and using Nolva or say arimidex would be fine to use on cycle if u are more prone to getting gyno running HCG and gear together. Another thing why do you guys not really like Triptorelin?
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08-26-2018, 02:05 PM #85
Triptorelin can permanently shut you down. Chemical castration
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08-27-2018, 01:27 PM #86
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08-27-2018, 04:59 PM #87
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I have read about it used in desperate attempts to restart like after being on TRT for years and trying to restart.
But really not enough data only some bioscience incidences.
I wouldn't try it.
I will look for article on it, but if it were me I would use things proven more safe.
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05-08-2019, 05:24 PM #88
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05-09-2019, 09:05 PM #89
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05-14-2019, 02:41 PM #90
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06-20-2019, 09:42 AM #91
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Hi there. Great info here but definitely would like to make sure this would be ok. I have 5000iu HCG and 10ml vial. 30ml biostatic water. Going to mix 10ml so should put me at 500iu per ml. Using 3cc 23 gauge 1.5” pins for both Test E and HCG. So I would need to do .5cc for 250iu of HCG a dose to be used twice a week correct? Also from reading what’s best I should do this.
Wk 1-10 250/250mg Test E and HCG
Wk 11-12 250/250mg Test E
Wk 14-16 Nolvadex 40mg per day
Wk 17-18 Nolvadex 20mg Per day.
I also have arimadex for AI if needed.
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06-22-2019, 04:18 PM #92
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04-14-2023, 09:31 AM #93
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06-25-2023, 03:42 PM #94
Maximizing Gains and Restoring Exogenous Testosterone: The Benefits of Using HCG During a Steroid Cycle
Maximizing Gains and Restoring Exogenous Testosterone: The Benefits of Using HCG During a Steroid Cycle
Using Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) during a steroid cycle has become a popular practice among bodybuilders and athletes. HCG serves as a valuable tool to maximize gains, mitigate side effects, and restore natural testosterone production. In this article, we will delve into the benefits of incorporating HCG into your steroid cycle, discuss appropriate dosages and durations, and provide guidance on how to administer HCG shots effectively.
Why Use HCG during a Steroid Cycle?
Anabolic steroid usage suppresses the body's natural testosterone production. This suppression can lead to undesirable side effects such as testicular atrophy, decreased libido, and potential long-term hormonal imbalances. HCG helps prevent these issues by mimicking luteinizing hormone (LH), which signals the testes to produce testosterone.
Dosages and Durations:
The optimal dosage and duration of HCG usage during a steroid cycle can vary depending on the individual and the specific steroid protocol being followed. However, a commonly recommended guideline is to administer HCG at a dosage of 250-500 IU two to three times per week.
Many individuals start using HCG around the third or fourth week of their steroid cycle and continue until the end of the cycle. It's important to note that prolonged HCG usage can desensitize the Leydig cells in the testes, diminishing its effectiveness. Therefore, a typical duration for HCG usage is 4-6 weeks.
Administering HCG Shots:
To administer HCG shots, you will need the following items:
1. HCG vial: Ensure it is properly stored and refrigerated to maintain potency.
2. Insulin syringe: A 1cc (1ml) syringe with a fine gauge needle (29-31G) is ideal for subcutaneous injections.
3. Alcohol swabs: Use these to clean the injection site and maintain proper hygiene.
The steps to administer HCG shots are as follows:
1. Wash your hands thoroughly.
2. Take the HCG vial out of the refrigerator and allow it to reach room temperature.
3. Clean the top of the vial with an alcohol swab.
4. Draw air into the syringe equal to the amount of HCG you intend to withdraw.
5. Inject the air into the vial.
6. Invert the vial and slowly withdraw the desired amount of HCG.
7. Tap the syringe gently to remove any air bubbles.
8. Clean the injection site with an alcohol swab.
9. Pinch the skin and insert the needle at a 45-degree angle.
10. Inject the HCG slowly and steadily.
11. Withdraw the needle, apply gentle pressure to the injection site, and discard the syringe in a sharps container.
Conclusion:
Incorporating HCG into your steroid cycle can offer significant benefits in terms of maximizing gains and restoring exogenous testosterone levels. By following appropriate dosages, durations, and administering HCG shots correctly, you can minimize side effects, maintain testicular function, and support a smoother post-cycle recovery. Remember to consult with a healthcare professional or a knowledgeable expert to ensure that HCG usage aligns with your individual needs and circumstances.
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01-03-2024, 09:52 AM #95
Understanding HCG in Bodybuilding: Maximizing Benefits During and Post Steroid Cycles
Introduction
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (HCG) has become a crucial component in the bodybuilding community, especially among those using anabolic steroids. This hormone, known for its unique properties, plays a vital role during and after steroid cycles. This article delves into the use of HCG in bodybuilding, highlighting its benefits and best practices for incorporation into steroid cycles.
What is HCG?
HCG is a hormone produced during pregnancy but has found a unique place in bodybuilding. It mimics the Luteinizing Hormone (LH), which is crucial for maintaining testicular size and functionality during a steroid cycle and aids in recovery post-cycle.
HCG During Steroid Cycles
Integrating HCG into a steroid cycle can help maintain testicular size and function, which might be compromised due to the external administration of steroids. The typical dosage ranges from 250 to 500 IU, administered two to three times a week, depending on the individual's specific steroid cycle.
The Role of HCG in Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)
Post Cycle Therapy is critical for restoring the body’s natural testosterone production after a steroid cycle. HCG, used before the start of PCT, can dramatically enhance the recovery process by stimulating the testes to produce testosterone naturally.
Best Practices for HCG Use in Bodybuilding
Dosage and Timing: Understanding the correct dosage and timing of HCG is crucial. Overuse or incorrect timing can lead to counterproductive results.
Combining with Other PCT Medications: Often, HCG is used in conjunction with other PCT medications like Clomid or Nolvadex for optimal recovery.
Monitoring Side Effects: While HCG is beneficial, monitoring for potential side effects is essential.
HCG Benefits in Bodybuilding
The primary benefits of HCG in bodybuilding include:
Maintaining testicular size and function during steroid cycles
Enhancing natural testosterone recovery post-cycle
Potentially improving fertility affected by long-term steroid use
Conclusion
HCG has emerged as a pivotal element in the strategic planning of steroid cycles and post-cycle recovery in bodybuilding. Its proper use can lead to more effective cycles, better results, and a smoother recovery process, ensuring that athletes achieve their bodybuilding goals while maintaining their health and hormonal balance.
Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, HCG in bodybuilding, anabolic steroids, HCG steroid cycles, post-cycle therapy, HCG dosage, testosterone recovery, PCT with HCG, HCG benefits, steroid cycle recovery, maintaining testicular function, HCG and testosterone, natural testosterone production, bodybuilding hormones, HCG injections, steroid cycle planning, HCG for athletes, hormonal balance in bodybuilding, effective steroid cycling, HCG side effects, HCG and fertility, HCG for muscle growth, anabolic steroid support, HCG and LH mimic, Clomid and HCG, Nolvadex and HCG, HCG post-steroid cycle, testosterone enhancement, HCG therapy in bodybuilding, safe steroid use, bodybuilding supplements, HCG in sports, enhancing steroid cycles, HCG for bodybuilders, bodybuilding recovery, testicular atrophy prevention, optimizing steroid cycles, HCG for PCT, steroid cycle enhancement, health in bodybuilding, steroid use and HCG, muscle building hormones, HCG and gym training, steroid cycle guidelines, HCG for fitness, athletic performance enhancement, HCG and weight training, advanced bodybuilding techniques, HCG cycle tips.
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03-25-2024, 08:39 AM #96
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