Ab workout techniques

I recently had a discussion with a friend of mine who is a former lifter and wrestler about ab workouts. His opinion is that abdominal muscles are no different than any other muscle and the best strategy for hypertrophy is 8 - 12 reps at high resistance. I had previously been doing stability ball situps with lots of sets and rep counts of 30+ depending on technique (arm placement, etc.), 3 sets of cable crunches in the range of 20 -30 reps, and 2 to 3 sets of 45° side bends in the range of 12 - 15 reps. I had very slowly gone up in weight and reps, but don't have a lot to show for it. His argument is that high rep counts of 12 or greater primarily tone muscle instead of building it - abdominal muscle included - and that my abs would be more developed if I'd used higher weight and lower reps. He also believes that most people overtrain abdominal muscles. He argues that the best exercises are those that do not use machines, except maybe the cable machine, so that all of the stabilizing muscles get exercised. He suggests stability ball pikes (with a weighted belt if the athlete can handle more weight), stability ball crunches while holding plates, weighted hanging knee raises, etc.

His advice seems sound, but I don't see a lot of people doing it. Most people with great abs that I've talked to claim to do the high rep / low weight thing and exercise abs five or six days a week. Based on their advice, many years ago I tried doing very high reps of situps (say 200 situps three times a day, every day), but I never felt like my abs had a chance to properly recover and I didn't get much from it physically.

I've tried my friend's advice and it seems to work well, but it's too early to tell for sure. I'm definitely more sore the following day. I can also say that it's certainly less painful during the exercise to squeeze out 10 reps with heavy weight to failure than 30 reps to failure with lighter weight, but less pain usually doesn't equate to more gain in our chosen activity. I personally feel like I shouldn't work abs more than once every three days (when training naturally) to allow appropriate recovery.

So what do you guys think about the strategy of focusing on exercises that require high use of stabilizing muscles and high weight in the 8 - 12 rep range? Do any of you already do this? Would you argue against it for any reason?

when it comes to abs i dont think u can overtrain them at all, i think u can have success either way u mentioned bro, so with that being said i thinks its ones personal prefrence, i have trained abs daily with high and low reps and weights as well as couple times a week same way and nothing ever seemed to change they always respond the same way for me no matter how i do it

i cant really say its been so long since ive seen my damn abs its not even funny lol. I dont train them much at all. one day a week if that usually.

Get_Swole said:

i cant really say its been so long since ive seen my damn abs its not even funny lol. I dont train them much at all. one day a week if that usually.

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shame shame on you,lol

Presser said:

shame shame on you,lol

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i just personally dont think you need to train them that often. I know several bodybuilders that never train abs at all and have fantastic abs. I feel that squats deads etc. work them pretty much enough. Just think about how much your core really is worked every week. i think 1 day is enough for any muscle just like bsp's friend.

i agree, i was just busting ur balls, that is what i posted bro though u can have great abs with little or alot, i have done both ways and never seen a difference realy either

Presser said:

when it comes to abs i dont think u can overtrain them at all, i think u can have success either way u mentioned bro, so with that being said i thinks its ones personal prefrence, i have trained abs daily with high and low reps and weights as well as couple times a week same way and nothing ever seemed to change they always respond the same way for me no matter how i do it

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I'm jealous of you bastards! I've busted my ass to try to get my abs in good shape, but it never seems to get any easier or do much good. If I work mine hard, they get so sore that there's no way I could do it again the next day. I'm doing all of my sets to failure, but I'm just not seeing major strength or mass increases. They've gotten a little stronger over the years, but they never look or feel any different to me. I don't think I can expect to gain anything at the moment because I'm cutting, but even when I'm bulking, I just can't do much with my abs. I'm holding out hope for noticeable changes when I start tren in a couple of weeks, but we'll see.

From my experience with abs, and I'm sure most of you know this, is that it really isn't the number of reps, but the time under tension. So you can do 50 faster paced repetitions, or you can do 15 slower, more deliberate concentrated reps, and you are going to get the same affect.
When I was boxing and doing MMA seriously years ago, my coach had me doing 1000 total reps for my abs. My abs were tight, and the high reps made my abdominals more dense, smaller, and harder which was ideal for absorbing punches. I still remember the first night I did 1000 reps, cause the next morning I couldn't sit up to get out of bed. Anyway, as far as appearance, my abs didn't change a whole lot, I got more cut over all because of the cardio and caloric expenditure while training. And like the old saying goes, Abs aren't made in the gym, but in the kitchen. As mentioned earlier some people don't even train abs anymore, they are just lean enough for them to show, and they get enough stimulation from them as stabilizer muscles in heavier lifts. Diet is key.
If you are looking to make your abs bigger/blockier so that they are more pronounced, then adding weight to your ab routine and working them less often is the way to go, that way you aren't burning the muscle away and making them smaller with more frequent workouts involving higher reps. And instead they are stimulated then have time to grow and then overcompensate in hypertrophy in preparation for the greater work loads that it is progressively exposed to, similar to other muscle groups. That being said, the abdominals are such a fibrous muscle group, it is really difficult to ever overtrain them.

Presser said:

i agree, i was just busting ur balls, that is what i posted bro though u can have great abs with little or alot, i have done both ways and never seen a difference realy either

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i know you like to touch me there but damn presser a time and place

Cracker69 said:

From my experience with abs, and I'm sure most of you know this, is that it really isn't the number of reps, but the time under tension. So you can do 50 faster paced repetitions, or you can do 15 slower, more deliberate concentrated reps, and you are going to get the same affect.
When I was boxing and doing MMA seriously years ago, my coach had me doing 1000 total reps for my abs. My abs were tight, and the high reps made my abdominals more dense, smaller, and harder which was ideal for absorbing punches. I still remember the first night I did 1000 reps, cause the next morning I couldn't sit up to get out of bed. Anyway, as far as appearance, my abs didn't change a whole lot, I got more cut over all because of the cardio and caloric expenditure while training. And like the old saying goes, Abs aren't made in the gym, but in the kitchen. As mentioned earlier some people don't even train abs anymore, they are just lean enough for them to show, and they get enough stimulation from them as stabilizer muscles in heavier lifts. Diet is key.
If you are looking to make your abs bigger/blockier so that they are more pronounced, then adding weight to your ab routine and working them less often is the way to go, that way you aren't burning the muscle away and making them smaller with more frequent workouts involving higher reps. And instead they are stimulated then have time to grow and then overcompensate in hypertrophy in preparation for the greater work loads that it is progressively exposed to, similar to other muscle groups. That being said, the abdominals are such a fibrous muscle group, it is really difficult to ever overtrain them.

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Thanks Cracker69, this is exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. I'm doing my best to take care of the kitchen part of the equation right now.

It's not that my abs (under the little bit of fat that's left) aren't tight and well toned, but they certainly aren't blocky either. They are awesome just like they are... for a girl :embarrass Blockiness is what I'm looking to develop, and I hope to have a solid plan to work on before I start a lean bulk a couple weeks from now. I'm not really intending to get my abs freaky looking, I would rather just have them a little less flat. Most of my muscles, while not huge, have nice peaks and my abs don't really seem to match up with the rest of me. Even when I was 6'0", 125 in the 11th grade, they were flat with almost no definition.

(And yes, I really was 6', 125 in high school - I had a lot of digestive problems when I was younger. People who saw me for the first time in a long while when I was getting close to 210 usually wondered out loud if I wasn't "on something".)