Crazymank
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
this was taken from another board. These questions where answered by Gavin.
guestion: I have read all your articles on growth hormone, insulin, and finally igf, but I am still having a hard time putting all three together in a protocol for bulking. Can you outline a simple program for me, something that lists dosages, timing, and optimal use? I have done many cycles of anabolics, as well as insulin and gh, but now I am looking forward to adding in some igf to the mix. Thanks in advance for helping a guy out.
Answer:
I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.
For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.
The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.
The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.
I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.
If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.
add this as well.......
Jesus guys are you reading the other threads, especially the one's Gavin already wrote? He's answered these specific questions about a dozen times already.
No you don't need to take insulin with the GH/ IGF-1 combo you'll still get gains from it.
Yes you will retain what you have and can add some quality muscle using the 3/week GH schedule, not to sound conceited but that wasn't even Gavin's thing I brought that to this board from someone who gave it to me. Simply put take your usual weekly total of GH you use when using it daily, Dasco456 you said you use 4ius/day 5 on/2 off so you use 20ius/week, use 1/3 of that 3 times a week use it post workout and try to spread it out by a day in between. Another words do a workout say Monday and shoot 7ius post workout, then Wednesday workout and do 7ius post workout and then Friday or Saturday do the same thing. You could even go up to say 10ius post workout if your already doing 7ius 3/week to make it easier.
Bulking and lean mass mean the same thing when it comes to 3 x week GH dosing. The difference on your body will depend on how much and what type of food your eating, if your eating a bulking diet you'll get bigger like Dbol gains that stay though, if your eating clean while doing it you'll get more quality type gains like those made when using EQ, Winny or say Tren.
Remember when using GH daily you use a smaller amount per day and do it daily so you get more gains like fat burning, skin and hair rejuvenation, and a small amount of new muscle. When using GH in large but infrequent dosages you get more muscle than the other stuff, although you will still get some hair/skin benefits and some small amount of fat burning.
Hope that helps. Try also to remember that Gavin is very busy and asking the same questions that he's answered over and over isn't going to go over well with him for obvious reasons.
guestion: I have read all your articles on growth hormone, insulin, and finally igf, but I am still having a hard time putting all three together in a protocol for bulking. Can you outline a simple program for me, something that lists dosages, timing, and optimal use? I have done many cycles of anabolics, as well as insulin and gh, but now I am looking forward to adding in some igf to the mix. Thanks in advance for helping a guy out.
Answer:
I am happy to help you out bro as it is critical to get the timing sequence down for optimal growth. I have been personally testing different protocols with igf use, having done over 20 different cycles and timing schedules. I also have a few competitive bodybuilders and test subjects off-season testing my new protocols. I have nailed down what I feel is the best protocol at this time, though everything is subject to change as I keep researching.
For now I have found that less is more. I highly recommend using a minimal schedule for all short chain sequence peptides, which include igf, insulin and even gh. I recommend using no more than 3 days per week, 2 days is fine, but no more than 3. The reason for this is that we are trying to prevent cell over-saturation and closure. All three products should be used in a similar manner.
The protocol is as follows; inject all products post workout, preferably after training large muscle groups which cause the most glycogen depletion, hence providing faster uptake of peptides. A sample layout is to inject Monday, Wednesday, and Friday.
Immediately post-workout inject 10-15iu of growth hormone IM, using a insulin pin and inject in any small muscle group such as delts, triceps, or biceps. Wait 20 minutes for the half-life clearance and conversion to igf to begin its sequence from the growth hormone and then inject a small dose of igf to create a synergistic super charge of the conversion process. I would recommend no more than 30mcg at this time. 10 minutes later you will take Humalog insulin only, and inject 5iu. I recommend starting with 5iu because Humalog has a very rapid onset and is easy to control with sugar. In conjunction with igf, you will be hyper-sensitive to insulin so start small and slowly work your way up to a maximum dose of 12iu post-workout. You will want to have around 80-100 grams of simple sugars such as dextrose and grape juice and an additional 60 grams of whey protein at the same time as your insulin. You will then eat another moderate glycemic index meal one hour after your high glycemic shake.
The reason for the high dose growth hormone is to take what would normally be your one week intake of gh and spread it out into 3 equal doses, injected pwo. This will create a truly anabolic rich environment and you will also benefit from full uptake due to your pwo depleted state.
So there is our post-workout regime, 3 days per week. Certainly you should take more than this, shouldn’t you? For most lifters, this protocol will be sufficient for growth. For someone with at least 6 months of gh use, 5 or more cycles of insulin and who no longer responds to typical igf protocols, the following regime may be followed: In addition to the above outline post-workout method, you may add additional doses of igf as well as insulin on the same day as your post-workout injection.
I would highly recommend you take 15mcg igf an additional two times per day. By taking less igf more often you will prevent cell over-saturation as well as receptor down-regulation. Creating a cell rich environment that saturates the cells infrequently will target massive cell proliferation. In addition you will take insulin 20 minutes after the igf on those 2 additional injections creating an anabolic rich environment that will last all day, 3 days per week.
For a sample protocol for someone that works out after work, I would recommend you do the following: Take 15mcg upon rising in the morning, followed by 10iu Humulin R or Humalog 20 minutes later. Immediately eat a carbohydrate rich meal with quality protein and low fat such as bananas, oatmeal and egg whites.
For lunch, take another 15mcg igf with 10iu insulin and have another moderate glycemic carbohydrate meal and protein with minimal fats. Follow the above listed pwo protocol to complete your three time injection schedule which will be used three times per week.
If you follow the outline laid out for you above to the letter, you will put on a massive amount of lean mass with a minimal amount of fat. You will need an anabolic and androgen rich environment to complete the schedule such as testosterone and tren in addition to the peptide products. T3 and T4 will not be necessary on this schedule as your thyroid levels will not be affected.
add this as well.......
Jesus guys are you reading the other threads, especially the one's Gavin already wrote? He's answered these specific questions about a dozen times already.
No you don't need to take insulin with the GH/ IGF-1 combo you'll still get gains from it.
Yes you will retain what you have and can add some quality muscle using the 3/week GH schedule, not to sound conceited but that wasn't even Gavin's thing I brought that to this board from someone who gave it to me. Simply put take your usual weekly total of GH you use when using it daily, Dasco456 you said you use 4ius/day 5 on/2 off so you use 20ius/week, use 1/3 of that 3 times a week use it post workout and try to spread it out by a day in between. Another words do a workout say Monday and shoot 7ius post workout, then Wednesday workout and do 7ius post workout and then Friday or Saturday do the same thing. You could even go up to say 10ius post workout if your already doing 7ius 3/week to make it easier.
Bulking and lean mass mean the same thing when it comes to 3 x week GH dosing. The difference on your body will depend on how much and what type of food your eating, if your eating a bulking diet you'll get bigger like Dbol gains that stay though, if your eating clean while doing it you'll get more quality type gains like those made when using EQ, Winny or say Tren.
Remember when using GH daily you use a smaller amount per day and do it daily so you get more gains like fat burning, skin and hair rejuvenation, and a small amount of new muscle. When using GH in large but infrequent dosages you get more muscle than the other stuff, although you will still get some hair/skin benefits and some small amount of fat burning.
Hope that helps. Try also to remember that Gavin is very busy and asking the same questions that he's answered over and over isn't going to go over well with him for obvious reasons.
