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    Default Milky / cloudy film on top of brew

    I keep getting this milky / cloudy film on top of the solution of raw powder, benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate. Some times it also appears on top of the solution after I add in the carrier.

    I seem to remember reading that this film means the manufacturer didn't properly complete the last acid wash during the manufacturing. I remember reading that either baking soda or baking powder would help eliminate this film but I don't remember which one.

    Can anyone help?

    Has anyone else run into this?
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    I keep getting this milky / cloudy film on top of the solution of raw powder, benzyl alcohol and benzyl benzoate. Some times it also appears on top of the solution after I add in the carrier.

    I seem to remember reading that this film means the manufacturer didn't properly complete the last acid wash during the manufacturing. I remember reading that either baking soda or baking powder would help eliminate this film but I don't remember which one.

    Can anyone help?

    Has anyone else run into this?
    Bro you said it's a Milky film on top of the solution?

    If it was like a cloudy solution I would say there's moisture in your Raw, but if it's on the top that's something I've never seen before. A picture would definitely help though.

    Here's a few questions that can help me try to figure out what the problem might be.

    What are you using for a carrier oil and is it USP grade?

    What compound is it that you're making at what mg?

    I'm sure you're doing it right, but just in case.

    1) You are mixing your raw material with your BA, and BB first and let it dissolve completely before adding your carrier oil correct?

    2) you are warming your carrier oil up to the same temperature as the BA, BB, and raw material is before adding it correct?


    We can try get to the bottom of this


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    The MCT oil is pharmaceutical grade, the GSO just says filtered and sterile. I got both from the same site that sells home brew stuff, I know that it can still be trash. All the other stuff like ba, bb, EO guiacol just says USP.

    I usually put powder, ba, bb in one beaker and carrier in a separate one. I put both in a shallow pan with about an inch and half of water. Both get heated the same at the same time.

    After I wrote the post I realized a better description is an opaque film like almost a thin film/skin of "dirty." It's like thinner than paper and it's in the center on the top of the solution, it doesn't go all the way to the walls of the beaker. It shows up on powder ba and bb beaker after I have let it sit in the warming water. It forms during that period where I have placed them in water and the stove is heating up, I don't stir during this time until I get up to around 150-160f. Once I start stirring it obviously gets mixed back into the solution. It's almost like the reverse of something settling out of the solution but it's at the top on top of the solution.

    As far as my raws go, and I know it's not the top tier supplier but they claim 98% or better with most above 99%.

    So far I have seen the film on some DHB cypionate I brewed at 125mgs and two batches of test enanthate at 300mgs. All batches have been at 100ml.

    I have other hormones like tren e, mast e, EQ, npp but I have been holding off because of the film. Like I wrote I remember reading about the film but I can't find the place I read about it. If I knew that my 0.22 filter was catching the stuff I wouldn't worry about it but I don't know. Overall I have not noticed anything odd about the stuff I did brew and pin.
     

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    That doesnt sound right on one compound let alone the same thing happening on different compounds!

    Id be concerned for sure.

    Im no expert on brewing by any means but it doesnt sound right at all

    Where did it come from?
    Milky / cloudy film on top of brew

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    All the raw's come from China like 95% of the stuff out there. I remember reading home brew instructions somewhere and as I remember it the description matches. Those instructions said it was a sign of the final acid wash either not being performed or not fully performed, depending on how much formed at the top. The instructions acted like it was not really a big thing because the brewer could address it themselves. I just dont remember if it was baking soda or baking powder they said to use. I personally have tried my best to skim it off, I might be getting half of it. The aditude the instructions had was get the film was just sort of part of the territory of home brewing with raws from China.

    I actually have some micronized stanozolol coming from a different source so I will see if it forms on it when brewed. If the new source is clean obviously I will not go back to the first source. Unfortunately I am sitting on a bit of raw's from them.

    I am thinking I need to brew something and get some pictures for here anyways. Plus my carrier oil has is about 8-9 months into that whole "use within or discard after a year from opening."
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    The MCT oil is pharmaceutical grade, the GSO just says filtered and sterile. I got both from the same site that sells home brew stuff, I know that it can still be trash. All the other stuff like ba, bb, EO guiacol just says USP.

    I usually put powder, ba, bb in one beaker and carrier in a separate one. I put both in a shallow pan with about an inch and half of water. Both get heated the same at the same time.

    After I wrote the post I realized a better description is an opaque film like almost a thin film/skin of "dirty." It's like thinner than paper and it's in the center on the top of the solution, it doesn't go all the way to the walls of the beaker. It shows up on powder ba and bb beaker after I have let it sit in the warming water. It forms during that period where I have placed them in water and the stove is heating up, I don't stir during this time until I get up to around 150-160f. Once I start stirring it obviously gets mixed back into the solution. It's almost like the reverse of something settling out of the solution but it's at the top on top of the solution.

    As far as my raws go, and I know it's not the top tier supplier but they claim 98% or better with most above 99%.

    So far I have seen the film on some DHB cypionate I brewed at 125mgs and two batches of test enanthate at 300mgs. All batches have been at 100ml.

    I have other hormones like tren e, mast e, EQ, npp but I have been holding off because of the film. Like I wrote I remember reading about the film but I can't find the place I read about it. If I knew that my 0.22 filter was catching the stuff I wouldn't worry about it but I don't know. Overall I have not noticed anything odd about the stuff I did brew and pin.
    Yes something definitely doesn't sound right. I could maybe understand if that was happening to Tren, but even then it's not right. I would like to know where the Raws came from tho, and I don't think it's anything to do with your carrier oils, solvents, or your heating process. The only thing it comes to mind without seeing a picture would be moisture in you raws. It's definitely not right that it's happening to multiple compounds.

    Only thing I can say even though I think it might be your Raws is, if you haven't already try to filter some of it and see if it cleans it out. A lot of times if it's moisture you have to use a hydrophobic filter though ( I would suggest a PVDF hydroponic filter) Also if it's moisture another thing you should do is put it back in a water bath on the stove, and bring it to 250° for about 30 minutes, and I know you might have read somewhere or heard someone say that if it gets too hot it burns off the hormone. Well i have yet to see that happen, and it doesn't happen, but that should help burn off some of the moisture if that's what it is. After you take it off and that is cool to about a hundred degrees go ahead and filter it and see what it looks like then.


    Make sure you do me a favor and comment back, and let me know what happens after that. Also don't hesitate to post a picture....

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    All the raw's come from China like 95% of the stuff out there. I remember reading home brew instructions somewhere and as I remember it the description matches. Those instructions said it was a sign of the final acid wash either not being performed or not fully performed, depending on how much formed at the top. The instructions acted like it was not really a big thing because the brewer could address it themselves. I just dont remember if it was baking soda or baking powder they said to use. I personally have tried my best to skim it off, I might be getting half of it. The aditude the instructions had was get the film was just sort of part of the territory of home brewing with raws from China.

    I actually have some micronized stanozolol coming from a different source so I will see if it forms on it when brewed. If the new source is clean obviously I will not go back to the first source. Unfortunately I am sitting on a bit of raw's from them.

    I am thinking I need to brew something and get some pictures for here anyways. Plus my carrier oil has is about 8-9 months into that whole "use within or discard after a year from opening."

    I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I haven't quite built up my presence here like I did on the forum I used when I just used premade. If only the other forum had a home brew section I would know who to message about this stuff.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    All the raw's come from China like 95% of the stuff out there. I remember reading home brew instructions somewhere and as I remember it the description matches. Those instructions said it was a sign of the final acid wash either not being performed or not fully performed, depending on how much formed at the top. The instructions acted like it was not really a big thing because the brewer could address it themselves. I just dont remember if it was baking soda or baking powder they said to use. I personally have tried my best to skim it off, I might be getting half of it. The aditude the instructions had was get the film was just sort of part of the territory of home brewing with raws from China.

    I actually have some micronized stanozolol coming from a different source so I will see if it forms on it when brewed. If the new source is clean obviously I will not go back to the first source. Unfortunately I am sitting on a bit of raw's from them.

    I am thinking I need to brew something and get some pictures for here anyways. Plus my carrier oil has is about 8-9 months into that whole "use within or discard after a year from opening."
    Also the shelf life on MCT oil it's 2 to 4 years. As long as you're keeping it stored safely with the lid screwed on tight and not getting any moisture in it. GSO has a 1 year shelf life. So again as long as you're keeping that stored correctly that shouldn't be the problem either.


    Don't hesitate to put the source out there man. This isn't one of them boards or you'll get a bashing or get banned for naming who the source is, and I could be wrong but if I had to take a guess I would say it's from LMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    All the raw's come from China like 95% of the stuff out there. I remember reading home brew instructions somewhere and as I remember it the description matches. Those instructions said it was a sign of the final acid wash either not being performed or not fully performed, depending on how much formed at the top. The instructions acted like it was not really a big thing because the brewer could address it themselves. I just dont remember if it was baking soda or baking powder they said to use. I personally have tried my best to skim it off, I might be getting half of it. The aditude the instructions had was get the film was just sort of part of the territory of home brewing with raws from China.

    I actually have some micronized stanozolol coming from a different source so I will see if it forms on it when brewed. If the new source is clean obviously I will not go back to the first source. Unfortunately I am sitting on a bit of raw's from them.

    I am thinking I need to brew something and get some pictures for here anyways. Plus my carrier oil has is about 8-9 months into that whole "use within or discard after a year from opening."

    I do appreciate you taking the time to respond. I haven't quite built up my presence here like I did on the forum I used when I just used premade. If only the other forum had a home brew section I would know who to message about this stuff.
    Hey Brother 100% of Raws come from China. Well at least 100% of the Raws they're being purchased by any UGL and sometimes even pharmaceutical companies like Pfizer and so on.

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    just a note, i do not heat my raws and bb with ba in them. the ba can potentially evaporate. granted, maybe not so much at lower temps. i do not use a water bath to heat my oil and raws. i heat them in the oven. i set the oven to preheat to 350 with my oil and vials in it. once the oven is preheated, i turn it off oven and place the oil and raws in, which have been mixed and waiting. i only heat them enough to make the raws dissolve and the solution is clear. high temps may not destroy the raws, but it will cook them. i have not had a problem doing it this way. i do not make high dose gear. so maybe try to make some without a h2o bath and see what happens. maybe also, just make it at 250mg/ml. just some thoughts. there are some good brewing post on here, you can look up as well, that may be helpful.
    all that you read here is only for entertainment purposes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgb View Post
    just a note, i do not heat my raws and bb with ba in them. the ba can potentially evaporate. granted, maybe not so much at lower temps. i do not use a water bath to heat my oil and raws. i heat them in the oven. i set the oven to preheat to 350 with my oil and vials in it. once the oven is preheated, i turn it off oven and place the oil and raws in, which have been mixed and waiting. i only heat them enough to make the raws dissolve and the solution is clear. high temps may not destroy the raws, but it will cook them. i have not had a problem doing it this way. i do not make high dose gear. so maybe try to make some without a h2o bath and see what happens. maybe also, just make it at 250mg/ml. just some thoughts. there are some good brewing post on here, you can look up as well, that may be helpful.
    I don't use a water bath to heat my Raws either brother. What I use is a digital hot plate is with a magnetic stir Rod. That is the proper way. I was just assuming that was the way he was doing it. Also I did this for years on a very large scale and by no way does the BA evaporate. Unless maybe you're bringing up to 350 degrees but anything below 200 degrees it is not evaporate and if it has I have never had a unsterile, and we're talking a lot of vials.

    I don't even know really what you mean when you say you put your vials in the oven. I'm hoping you mean to sterilize them. Maybe I'm confused but everyone has their own way as long as it works. As far as high mg gear goes yeah I also can make test e at 700mg or injectable superdrol at 60mg so I'm with you there brother...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macho313 View Post
    Yes something definitely doesn't sound right. I could maybe understand if that was happening to Tren, but even then it's not right. I would like to know where the Raws came from tho, and I don't think it's anything to do with your carrier oils, solvents, or your heating process. The only thing it comes to mind without seeing a picture would be moisture in you raws. It's definitely not right that it's happening to multiple compounds.

    Only thing I can say even though I think it might be your Raws is, if you haven't already try to filter some of it and see if it cleans it out. A lot of times if it's moisture you have to use a hydrophobic filter though ( I would suggest a PVDF hydroponic filter) Also if it's moisture another thing you should do is put it back in a water bath on the stove, and bring it to 250° for about 30 minutes, and I know you might have read somewhere or heard someone say that if it gets too hot it burns off the hormone. Well i have yet to see that happen, and it doesn't happen, but that should help burn off some of the moisture if that's what it is. After you take it off and that is cool to about a hundred degrees go ahead and filter it and see what it looks like then.


    Make sure you do me a favor and comment back, and let me know what happens after that. Also don't hesitate to post a picture....

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    I know this post is a little old. Wish the OP'er would have hit back as to the outcome of this dilemma. I would like to see him put his whole setup together MINUS the raws and see if same thing persists. If so then one of his chems could be culprit. Some of these companies get the wrong product in labeled another. For example, PG has been mislabeled BB and so on. It just seems TOO coincidental that EVERY raw product he has was doing the same thing. Sounds like a chemical culprit. One of his chems is doing this in EVERY batch. IMO. I could be wrong but I've been doing this for a LONG time and raws do get messed up allllll the time but for ALL of them to have the same problem??? Sounds unreal. And TRUE I could see that coming from LMC as well if it was.
    As to temps.... I do the BB and BA heated thing first as well, then dissolve raws into them. I also bring total temp up to 120C and hold for approx 15min. This is on vigorous stirring on a heating stir plate. The stirring keeps any scorching from going down. The 120C allows any moisture to be evaporated out. I never really have moisture probs as I never use water baths etc... However sometimes the humidity is up and moisture in very small amounts collects. 120C takes care of that. Filter at around 40C no problems.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstarks11 View Post
    I know this post is a little old. Wish the OP'er would have hit back as to the outcome of this dilemma. I would like to see him put his whole setup together MINUS the raws and see if same thing persists. If so then one of his chems could be culprit. Some of these companies get the wrong product in labeled another. For example, PG has been mislabeled BB and so on. It just seems TOO coincidental that EVERY raw product he has was doing the same thing. Sounds like a chemical culprit. One of his chems is doing this in EVERY batch. IMO. I could be wrong but I've been doing this for a LONG time and raws do get messed up allllll the time but for ALL of them to have the same problem??? Sounds unreal. And TRUE I could see that coming from LMC as well if it was.
    As to temps.... I do the BB and BA heated thing first as well, then dissolve raws into them. I also bring total temp up to 120C and hold for approx 15min. This is on vigorous stirring on a heating stir plate. The stirring keeps any scorching from going down. The 120C allows any moisture to be evaporated out. I never really have moisture probs as I never use water baths etc... However sometimes the humidity is up and moisture in very small amounts collects. 120C takes care of that. Filter at around 40C no problems.
    I agree with you completely on the fact that hardly ever do Raws come with moisture in them and cause cloudy gear, and like you said i definitely don't see all of them having that same problem.

    Also bro this is the same guy you were talking to a few days ago on another form about filter bags if you remember? Shoot me a p.m. on any board you want. Oh and Happy Thanksgiving...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Macho313 View Post
    I agree with you completely on the fact that hardly ever do Raws come with moisture in them and cause cloudy gear, and like you said i definitely don't see all of them having that same problem.

    Also bro this is the same guy you were talking to a few days ago on another form about filter bags if you remember? Shoot me a p.m. on any board you want. Oh and Happy Thanksgiving...

    Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk
    Yeah bro, small world. I am also on quite a few boards. Some of them for ALOT longer than current profiles. Some of them I lost/forgot my passwords to and had to start new profiles because I took a hiatus there for a while. I try to use same password but some of these boards trip about password security so much so tot the point that when created I have to use a password that I am unfamiliar with. So when I take time away and come back... I just cannot remember them. I used to have an account on one of the oldest forums in the game. my account there was started in 2005 and now on that forum I look like a newbie!!! Just cannot access the account.
    Anyway, yeah, I'll hit you up in a PM.
     

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    I appreciate the responses. I didn't respond because I have this phobia about talking or posting about this stuff when something is in the mail. I guess I am paranoid that if I talk about it then that would be like counting my chickens before they hatch.

    As far as source the raws came from pharmadelab. It isn't a manufacturer from what I can tell, even though they claim so. Just another middle man wharehouse setup. This last package actually got sent to the wrong address state side, which added to why it's been so long in my response. My oils and solvents came from medlabsupply.

    I tried to get pictures of the film yet this last brew didn't have it. I did change the water bath out for a cooking oil bath. I realized that using a water bath would not let my brew get above boiling. I am personal level brewer so as of yet I am not set up for the hot plate and magnetic storing.

    I am proceeding with some other brews once my new vials get here. If I get the film on any of those I will post pics.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    I appreciate the responses. I didn't respond because I have this phobia about talking or posting about this stuff when something is in the mail. I guess I am paranoid that if I talk about it then that would be like counting my chickens before they hatch.

    As far as source the raws came from pharmadelab. It isn't a manufacturer from what I can tell, even though they claim so. Just another middle man wharehouse setup. This last package actually got sent to the wrong address state side, which added to why it's been so long in my response. My oils and solvents came from medlabsupply.

    I tried to get pictures of the film yet this last brew didn't have it. I did change the water bath out for a cooking oil bath. I realized that using a water bath would not let my brew get above boiling. I am personal level brewer so as of yet I am not set up for the hot plate and magnetic storing.

    I am proceeding with some other brews once my new vials get here. If I get the film on any of those I will post pics.
    Yeah bro, keep us posted and put pics up of problems. I am going to do my best to help you figure this out. Pharmadelab??? Is that spelling correct? Not sure of that source... If you have same problems again, then I will hit you up in a PM further on another route that may solve this problem. Otherwise, MedLabSupply have always been legit and had good chems. Problem is, if there was a MISTAKE then no matter how solid a company is... mistakes are mistakes. I suggest, you run your WHOLE setup the way you normally do, but MINUS the raws. and do everything you normally do and see if you get milky color. Then if not, ADD raws to everything, bring temp back up to 100-120C and cut heat off and allow to cool to 55C roughly and filter. Then if you get milk it is FOR SURE in the raws. At which point we will remedy that!!!
     

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    I have had this happen a few times
    First time was the bottle top filter plastic melting from the bb
    No problems since using PVDF filters
    Second time I am pretty sure it was bad BB
    Was NPP that separated into two distinct layers when at room temp
    Put vial in hot water and shake
    Boom clear again
    Became cloudy/milky when cooled off
    Tried heating several times
    Finally just tossed it
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluebeard View Post
    I have had this happen a few times
    First time was the bottle top filter plastic melting from the bb
    No problems since using PVDF filters
    Second time I am pretty sure it was bad BB
    Was NPP that separated into two distinct layers when at room temp
    Put vial in hot water and shake
    Boom clear again
    Became cloudy/milky when cooled off
    Tried heating several times
    Finally just tossed it
    Yeah bro, alllllll kind of weird shit happens in homebrew. That bad BB is no joke. Can have you thrown for a 100 loops trying to figure out whats wrong with your gear. I hear ya!
     

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    It’s probably just crashing. Heat it up just a bit in a sauce pan with a little water


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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSteel View Post
    It’s probably just crashing. Heat it up just a bit in a sauce pan with a little water


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    Test E 300mg/ml??? Definately not crashing. Besides, he states that it is a film of milkiness on TOP of brew and while it is heated up to boot. Test E at 300mg/ml doesn't crash anyway, even when using only carrier oil and hardly any BB but it DEFINATELY doesn't crash while heated. and if crashed, it would be throughout not just on top. This is some type of raw problem, or a particular chemical... IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackSteel View Post
    It’s probably just crashing. Heat it up just a bit in a sauce pan with a little water


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    Test E 300mg/ml??? Definately not crashing. Besides, he states that it is a film of milkiness on TOP of brew and while it is heated up to boot. Test E at 300mg/ml doesn't crash anyway, even when using only carrier oil and hardly any BB but it DEFINATELY doesn't crash while heated. and if crashed, it would be throughout not just on top. This is some type of raw problem, or a particular chemical... IMO
     

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    My best description is it is like dirt comes and forms a layer on top, it's paper thin and only in the center of the beaker, it doesn't go all the way to the edges.

    I am now thinking it was something off with the raw test. I have brewed a couple other hormones and no film. Plus that specific batch of test was "off". Basically I live in the southwest and earlier in the year like spring time I left for the weekend and the AC was off. That batch turned into oil then stayed that way even when I got the room back down to reasonable temps. I just so happened to have a different batch of test e in my "kit." That batch at first did sort of melt but only half way so I thought the second batch was off. A few weeks later I was gone for the weekend and the power went off. That time the second batch melted completely into oil. But when it came back to AC temp it formed back into a big solid chunk of test e, like a chunk of cocaine right off the pressed brick. The while time the first batch was in oil form and stayed in oil form. At that point I ordered a digital controlled hot plate so I could test melting points. Obviously I don't know where the oil batch of test e melted at but the second batch that turned into a rock melted at the high end of the known range for test e.

    I emailed the source and of course with it being basically a wharehouse middle man I got all sorts of responses like "melting temps are just theory.' When I pointed out that I had two batches from them and they were both behaving differently all I got was "we will ask the technician."

    I am done with that oil batch of test e and I have not had anymore films form at the top of my brews so I will probably never know what was going on.
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1_whocares View Post
    My best description is it is like dirt comes and forms a layer on top, it's paper thin and only in the center of the beaker, it doesn't go all the way to the edges.

    I am now thinking it was something off with the raw test. I have brewed a couple other hormones and no film. Plus that specific batch of test was "off". Basically I live in the southwest and earlier in the year like spring time I left for the weekend and the AC was off. That batch turned into oil then stayed that way even when I got the room back down to reasonable temps. I just so happened to have a different batch of test e in my "kit." That batch at first did sort of melt but only half way so I thought the second batch was off. A few weeks later I was gone for the weekend and the power went off. That time the second batch melted completely into oil. But when it came back to AC temp it formed back into a big solid chunk of test e, like a chunk of cocaine right off the pressed brick. The while time the first batch was in oil form and stayed in oil form. At that point I ordered a digital controlled hot plate so I could test melting points. Obviously I don't know where the oil batch of test e melted at but the second batch that turned into a rock melted at the high end of the known range for test e.

    I emailed the source and of course with it being basically a wharehouse middle man I got all sorts of responses like "melting temps are just theory.' When I pointed out that I had two batches from them and they were both behaving differently all I got was "we will ask the technician."

    I am done with that oil batch of test e and I have not had anymore films form at the top of my brews so I will probably never know what was going on.

    Good to be done with that batch, and probably to be done with that supplier. I will PM you with a more reliable on point supplier.
     

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