Question!! Need some help making a decesion

Hi all.. Ok here is the deal. I am looking to loose about 20 pounds as well as body fat before I "bulk"up. My problem area is my stomach and my waist. I am looking into geting lipsuction, but am very very leary about it as well as mb so doesnt agree and feels I can do it on my own. My problem is I want  my flat stomach, small waist, and like in my eyes "perfect body" NOW... Ok so anyway.. mb and I were also looking into clen.. 2 weeks on and then 2 weeks on stacker 2. I do 35 mins cardio 4 maybe 5xs a week as well weights. mb is going to put me on a weight training schedule this saturday. So if y'all had any comments or ANY helpful tips it would be greatly appreciated.. Thanks

STackER mASKes m ee       crAZY.
in the head.  go with yellow jackets or speed stack instead, yellows, are made by the same company as stacker, and speed satck is made by weider

hi enchantra....
something about liposuction... does the thought of someone sticking a vacuum into your cut open stomacha and sucking what ever they can out of there sound like it... that type of surgery scares me.. have you ever watched it performed...
do you know that it can take up to 6 months before you can see what the surgery actually performed.. after the swelling. the pain... the bruising... the more swelling... waiting to see where things settle (so to speak) ... then.. if you do put any weight back on.. you may develop fat deposits where you didn't have a high fat content before....  not that i am trying to make you change your mind on getting the procedure done <!--emo&--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->
but if you think about 6 months after surgery... the wait to see... or after a good program of eating , diet and training (which you will see results after a month ..hummm) which would be best...

... stacker 2... thermadrene.. hydroxycut(high price product)  are all good thermogenic products.. but i would advise against using them with clen... you may have a slight case of the shakes.. (hee hee.. you will look like you  have parkinsons disease....)
run T3 (cytomel) and clen  and some ketotien (if you can get some this way you do not have to take the 2 weeks off... keeps your receptors active <!--emo&--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->  ) ..
T3 bumps your bodies ability to burn fat...
clen: in short raises your body temp by a degree or 2 .. which will case you to burn fat.. also. you can keep muscle you have and possibly gain a small amount while taking the clen.... (it is not an aas, no sides other than shakes maybe.. and the elevated body temp..)
take the t3 for 6 weeks and the clen for  weeks... t3 starts on the 3rd week of the clen..
this combination should give you a nice leaning up in a 2 month period of time.... and much much safer than the surgery..


sasha

Have you tried one of these keto diets, like the Anabolic Diet.

A few of the members here have tried 'em and lost quite a bit of FAT weight.  Upto 20lbs.

The one they seem to rave about is "The Anabolic Diet" by DR M Di Pasquale.

Apparently you lose fat, but not muscle, by limiting your carb intake and upping your fat intake.  There are article in mens forum on it.  Give it a go.  If it works let us know. :wink: Laters

Thanks sasha.. yeah I defenitly decedied that it would be stupid and a waste of money(mb).. I only have a little to loose im just really impatient at times.. Now the problem is what will be best for me? Im a little scared about T3 I dont know much, but I really dont want to take anyting with "harmful or longterm" side effects. I know that clen causes the shakes, but that kinda stuff does not bother me. I used to take metabolife and it didnt effect me (shakes) like it did others. mb and I were reading last night about the 2 wekks clen 2 weeks eca?<!--emo&???--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt='???'><!--endemo--> Is the only possible effect the shkes or are you saying that T3 and clen will just work better and have faster results? sorry for all the questions and again thanks for all your help =0)

never say your sorry for asking questions that is what we are all here for .. questions and answers. ----------

clen..causes shakes.. i have met rare people that it has not done that too.. one morning a few weeks ago. i got up took 2 clen..(still asleep)  a little while later.. took a stacker 2 with a cup of coffee (heehee.. little bit of a crack head..) when i went to go put my make up on .. i could barely do it.. pretty funny actually ..my jaw was shaking... (was taking ketos so i was not taking the normally higher amount of clens ) .. anyways.. had to take 1/2  a valium to calm my butt down before i went to work.... (not advisable on a normal person or circumstance ) so taking the clen and a eca together is not recommended..

-in answer to your question.. yes clen and t3 work much better together... i forget all the technical aspects of it.(still not awake). but in short T3 alone burns fat.. and muscle.. T3 with clen.. t3 burns fat.. clen keeps muscle and increases the amount of fat burned..  
   -"harmful or longterm" sides" that would be if you where to take an extreme amount like 250mg day. for a very long period of time...
if you do something along 75mg - 100mg per day for a 6 week period you will do great.. and give you system 6-8 weeks minimum to restore it's levels to natural "healthy " level again ..  
  -if you are afraid or nervous of t3 you can try tricana.. a milder form of cytomel... still works along the same premise just a little milder for beginners...

next time i make it back to my house and computer.. i will post or email you some info i have saved at home... if you would like...

 - do a search on tricana... and see if that seems a little bit more your speed than cytomel(t3) with the clen...


sasha

Thanks sasha I will research morewhen I get home from work and I would greatly appreciated you sending me the Info.

no problem.. when i get to my house i will send some to you ... shoot me an email at  [email protected] and i will forward them to you ..

good luck and keep reading... you will fin dout many new things .. of interest....

sasha

I think what enchantra is saying is she is going to alternate and take the clen for 2 weeks then the ECA for 2 weeks and so on....Correct me if I am wrong Enchantra. This is what I do and it works great. Both ECA and clen stack well with T3, and you will lose weight as long as your training and diet are solid. Later

I wrote this a while back.  May be worth reading.  Hope it helps :wink:

Fat

Dietary fat is far more likely to make you fat than any other nutrient, as it is stored as adipose tissue if it is
not required straight away.  In contrast to protein and carbohydrate, overeating fat does not increase fat oxidation,
this only occurs when total energy demands exceed total energy intake or during aerobic exercise.

Fat contains more than double the calories per gram (9/g) of carbohydrate and protein (4/g for both), but it
is much easier to over consume, as it is less satiating for two reasons.  Firstly, carbohydrates and protein
produce a rise in blood glucose, which reduces the appetite.  Fat on the other hand, is digested and
absorbed less rapidly and often actually depresses blood glucose, thereby failing to satisfy the appetite as
efficiently.  Secondly, fatty foods have a high density and less bulk, again making them less satisfying, in
the short term and easier to overeat.

The fats you do eat should comprise unsaturated fatty acids, particularly omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids.  
These are obtained from sources such as oily fish (mackerel, sardines, fresh tuna (not tinned) and salmon),
also from certain plants (linseed, pumpkin, walnuts, rapeseed oil and soybeans).

If my understanding of Ketogenic diets is correct there is no distinction made of where the fat comes from,
it is just a source of high fat calories you are required to consume.

Carbohydrates

Carbs on the other hand have been shown to actually increase your metabolic rate; about 10-15% of the
carb calories are expended as heat (thermogenesis).  This gives you a little leeway in your carb intake by
allowing you to overeat by around 10-15% (depending on your requirements).

So what happens to the excess carbs?  Well, it is converted into glycogen - provided there is spare storage
capacity and provided there is only a small rise in blood glucose.  A rapid rise in blood glucose produced
by high Glyceamic Index carbohydrates can lead to fat storage.  This is because in invokes a
rapid release of insulin.  The more insulin present in the blood due to the intake of high GI carbohydrates,
the more likely this insulin will turn excess carbs into fat and deposit it in your fat cells.  (Insulin users
take note)

The key to keeping insulin levels low is to eat low GI foods.  In practice this means you have to eat some
protein with your carbs at each meal.  Adding a small amount of fatty acid will also reduce the GI of the
meal.

Protein

When protein is overeaten, the amino part of the protein is excreted and the molecule left provides an
energy substrate.  This can either be used directly or stored, preferably as glycogen and not fat.  Further
more protein ingestion also stimulates thermogenesis, so a significant proportion of the protein calories
are given of as heat.

Researchers worldwide believe that protein is the most effective nutrient at switching of hunger signals so
it helps stop overeating.  The most likely explanation is that we have no capacity to store excess protein
(as protein) so the brain readily detects when you have eaten enough and switches off the hunger signals.

By including adequate amounts of protein in your meals on a fat loss program you can help control
hunger.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---

How to calculate calorie, carbohydrate, protein and fat requirements.

Step 1Calculate your resting metabolic rate (RMR)

AGE               MALE                                FEMALE
10 - 18 years(Bodyweight kg x 17.5) + 651   (Bodyweight kg x 12.2) + 746
19 - 30 years(     “     kg x 15.3) + 679(     “     kg x 14.7) + 496
31 - 60 years(     “     kg x 11.6) + 879(     “     kg x 8.7) + 829
*Source Williams 1991 (RMR in Athletes)


Step 2Calculate your daily calorific expenditure

Multiply your RMR by the appropriate number below.

· if you are mostly sedentary (seated or standing activities during the day)
RMR x 1.4

· if you are moderately active through the day (brisk walk or equivalent)
RMR x 1.7

· if you are very active (generally physically active during the day)
RMR x 2.0

Step 3Estimate the number of calories expended during exercise
It is best to add up the whole weeks expenditure then divide by seven to gaet a daily figure

Sport  Kcal / hour
Aerobics (high intensity)520
Aerobics (low intensity)400
Badminton370
Boxing (sparring)865
Cycling (16 km / hour)385
Cycling (8km / hour)250
Judo760
Rowing machine445
Running (3.8 min / km)1000
Running (5.6 min / km)750
Squash615
Swimming (fast)630
Tennis (singles)415
Weight training270-450

* Figures are based on the calorie expenditure of an athlete weighing 65kg.  Values will be greater for heavier bodyweights and
less for lighter body weights (proportionally)

Step 4Add figure from steps 2 and 3

This is the number of calories needed to maintain your bodyweight.  Regard this figure as you
maintenance intake.

Step 5To lose fat reduce your calorie intake by 15%  (OR to increase lean body weight add 20%)

Lose fat = Step 4 x .85
Gain muscle = Step 4 x 1.2

Step 6 Calculate you carbohydrate requirement

Multiply the figure from step 5 by 0.6 (60%) then divide by 4 to calculate you carb intake in
grams

Step 7 Calculate your protein needs

Multiply your body weight in kilograms by 2.0 to give you gram requirements per day.

To convert to a percentage simply multiply the number of grams of protein by 4 then divide by
the figure in step 5

Step 8Calculate your fat requirements

Your fat intake is a percentage of the total calories left after you have calculated the carb and
protein percentages. I.e. 100% - carb% - Protein% = fat%

Then to calculate the fat intake in grams, multiply the figure from step five by the %fat and
divide by 9.


These processes can be speeded up by the use of ergogenic aids such as AS, T3, clenbuterol etc, but you
should do your own research on these products before using them.


If nothing else at least some newbies will be able to calculate their calorific requirements.

Thanks BJ that was very helpful... Napalm1 yes I was wondering if i could do clen w/ and eca and no t3? Im thinking  though that clen and t3 work better than clen and an eca.. please correct me if I am wrong or advise me if i am correct.. thanks again all

Napalm you are correct, I was going to have her do 2 weeks clen then two weeks stacker2.  I really didn't want her taking t3 right now.  I thought if she didn't get the results that she wanted then she could do the t3 and clen.  Sasha I know that you said presser didn't want you to do t3 because it can cause thyroid problems.  Well I was doing some research last night and came across a real good article and he had stated at the bottom that if you could come up with logical informatipn that t3 causes thyroid problems he would give you a 100 dollars.  Well I'm going to do some more research for my sexy girl!!!!!!!!!
Peace

awhh baby ur so sweet.. u trying 2 get sum xtra luving later.. hehe.. ok but in all thanks for the help everyone

<!--QuoteBegin-->Quote:
<div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->from sasha posted at 12:01 pm on Oct. 19, 2001

Sasha I know that you said presser didn't want you to do t3 because it can cause thyroid problems.  
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

<!--emo&--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo--> i do not go with presser .. spanishfly does... stickler is mine... <!--emo&--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->

first off.. i research anything before i do it.. it is not up to someone to tell me what i he wants me to do and not do......  the only way that any damage can be done to a persons own thyroid is if they took high amounts for very very long periods of time...  

so far i have met or talk to no one that has had any problems due to use of T3.....
i can understand you do not want your lady to get hurt that is perfectly understandable... that is why i suggested the tricana instead if you where that nervous about T3....


napalm... YES you where right... don't know what i was thinking about at that time... <!--emo&--><img src="http://musclechemistry.mantisforums.com/IB3/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif" border="0" valign="absmiddle" alt=''><!--endemo-->  sorry enchantra... yes.. naplams right on the days off of clen take an eca...  hee hee... i guess that it has just become second nature to do that...



sasha

Sorry sasha, I did mean spanishfly.  I didn't read over it sorry.  I really don't care if she takes t3 but I just wanted her to try the clen and stacker2 first.

thanks sasha.. I totally undersatnd we all have our days.. ok well I think ill try 2 weeks of clen and then 2 weeks of an eca, but question is how many weeks would i do this for? and how much clen and how many a day? and the days off clen how many pills of eca a day... lmao.. thats alot of questions sorry, b ut know that I appreciate this  GREATLY =O).. have a great weekend all

I have all the answers when you get home baby.  You have alot of reading to do this weekend babe.
Criteria these
CLEN:ED
week1, 10mg, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 60
week2, 60, 60, 50, 40, 30, 20, 10

STACKER2:One in the morning and one before she works out.
How's that look to everybody?  Not to good on cutting because I'm always between 5-7%bf so I don't have to worry about those things.  :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Come on people what do you all think?  Help a bro out

hey mb.....is the 10, 20 ,30 etc how much clen she'll be taking?  If it is she may not get to 60 (or six pills whatever lol).  When I first ran my clen cycle i got up to 7 and I was  amess so i dialed down to 5 and I was cool with that.  Also once I got to my peak dosage...I stayed there and didn't taper down.  You taper T3 up and down.  Also you and enchantra may want to consider using Ketotifin (sp?) also because you can take less clen and it keeps the recepters open instead of having to cycle 2 and 2.

hope this helps
tubby