First Female-Driven IGF-1 Research

[squatter]

bingo! you hit the nail on the head. when I say monitering, I mean pure visual observation. I keep all my trainees off of the scale, and when I measure BF I don't tell them what it is. their only cue is the mirror. why? the mirror NEVER lies. for most men and all women, especially non-competing women, what you look like is all that matters.

squatter

 

[BGMKE7]

just would like to add that i experience the extreme hungry about 4 hours after the injection.its doesnt last all day and night.it just hits me hard at the 4 hour mark.i even went a little hypo from not eating fast enough.i also have noticed that i can eat what ever i want and im getting better results by doing so.i tryed to keep my diet clean and sometimes i got a little nauseas too.but now i have just said what the hell and started eating whatever is there in front of me and im not putting on any fat.i really didnt want to test this so called theory but i was forced to cause i hate being nauseas.just my 2 cents.
later

 

[WWM/PUMPED]

just would like to add that i experience the extreme hungry about 4 hours after the injection.its doesnt last all day and night.it just hits me hard at the 4 hour mark.i even went a little hypo from not eating fast enough.i also have noticed that i can eat what ever i want and im getting better results by doing so.i tryed to keep my diet clean and sometimes i got a little nauseas too.but now i have just said what the hell and started eating whatever is there in front of me and im not putting on any fat.i really didnt want to test this so called theory but i was forced to cause i hate being nauseas.just my 2 cents.
later

I am having the same things happen to me. well not the hypo but I feel and look better if I eat what every I want. I tryed to eat VERY clean today and by 2PM my head was pounding like crazy and felt sick as shit.

 

[scorpiochiq]

bingo! you hit the nail on the head. when I say monitering, I mean pure visual observation. I keep all my trainees off of the scale, and when I measure BF I don't tell them what it is. their only cue is the mirror. why? the mirror NEVER lies. for most men and all women, especially non-competing women, what you look like is all that matters.

squatter

Yep, also, men and women are very different. In a given month a woman's hormones alter, rise, fall and then some - not to mention I know I can gain 5 pounds of excess water retention during PMS so there is no sense in using the scale or the fat caliper. Oh, and as per Max Rep's comments, I agree that it's important to get accurate measurements but at the moment I don't have a reliable scale or calipers. However I will take note of my strength improvements in the gym.

Day 5)Didn't get to the gym for my clean-up day because I was exhausted from the weekend. I also had my cheat day today (in fact, I started last night at dinner) so the last thing I am at this moment is 'lean'. Holding a lot of water but I am really excited to get back at the gym this week and see what this puppy can do now that I am almost finished my period (yes, too much info there perhaps but it is relevant when considering the water I was holding) and that the igf has been in my system for few days.

 

[squatter]

true true! my girl swells during PMS. her breasts are falling out of her bra and some times her top lip even swells up. and sure as shit a week later back to normal.

she and I are on day 3 and nothing worth noting. I had a killer headache yeasterday for the whole 2nd half of the day. maybe coincidence.

squatter

 

[scorpiochiq]

I was going to say you can tell she has a high IQ, but I like the way you put it!

Thanks for the compliment!

Day 6) Great mood, and a fantastic workout at the gym today. I didn't to have a shake this morning when I got up so when I went to the gym I was really working on empty - a true test for the IGF.
My strength was really impressive. I did a Back workout today and even though I was pushing till failure I still had energy to move on to the next exercise. Even though I am typically stronger and more energetic the day after my carb-up, it doesn't hold a candle to the energy I had in the gym today (on empty at that!).

Major observations include: localized growth in my delts where I have been injected the IGF (now at 50 mcg and staying there). STrength gains. Not really a pump in my upper body but when I stepped on the Gauntlet (climbing stairmaster) I had a serious pump in my quads. I was also able to get through some pretty intense cardio quite easily. I 'felt' like I was burning more calories than normal even though I only did 20 min on that machine - perhaps because of the burn. The energy was endless.
My muscles appear larger but not necessarily more defined. I will wait until Wed/Thurs for my water to shed a bit more and really form an opinion.

L.A.: as for the low carb diet I am switching this week to more of a Jay Robb Diet, which is only low glycemic carbs like fruits. This type of diet really works for me.


Oh yeah, I added one more variable today (which I took after today's workout but will take in the morning with IGF from here on in): Injectable B12 w/ folic acid. The B12 is actually a combination of 3 different forms of B12 including methylcobalamin which among many things protects against cancer, chronic fatigue syndrome and neurological diseases. I got it from my doctor and inject 1 ml (which is 5 mg/ml of the formula) daily. Essentially it's a kick *ss vitamin mix.

 

[scorpiochiq]

she and I are on day 3 and nothing worth noting. I had a killer headache yeasterday for the whole 2nd half of the day. maybe coincidence.

squatter

Where did you get the IGF from? Reputable source? I'll tell you why: I tried IGF before but I got it from a crap source that didn't send it in ice and shipped it USPS so it took 2 weeks to get here. Needless to say, it arrived and I felt nothing. However I think the headache is a good sign that it is doing something because I have been getting them as well. Remedy? 1) Food and 2) split up your dose into two, especially if it's more than 50 mcg. Just my opinion.

 

[scorpiochiq]

A few observations based on the fact that I am NOT doing IGF in conjunction with an AAS or other: simply put, you have to work your ass off. I 'feel' and 'see' a difference when I put the pedal to the metal but when I am lounging all day or eating poorly, very little happens. I think IGF (alone) is far from the easy way out. Much like taking Cytomel you have to train and diet hard while on it in order for it to work. I know that sounds almost obvious, but I do think there is a definate disadvantage to doing the IGF solo IN COMPARISON to injecting a synergistic cocktail of anabolics with the IGF.

That being said, I am working my butt off. I am still looking for a complete change in my body composition and physique so for those wondering 'how can I tell whether it is hard work or the IGF that is working'? I can promise you that the effects of the IGF (from the pump and burn to the 'twice the calories in half the time feeling') is hard to ignore).


Now, an interesting Q is, if one took GH for 6 months doing just an average amount of activity with an average diet, with their body composition/physique still change? Are the effects of GH more dependable than IGF?

 

[squatter]

we got ours from cyb sol

I think it's good, it's just that I'm pretty well developed (6'5" 300 @8%), change would have to be very drastic to notice this soon. I've done alot of AAS and growth for just a year. this is the only thing on the market escept for EPO that I haven't used. I'm very in tune with my body.

had a mild headache today and was sick to my stomach off and on all day. I'de feel like puking then a minute later be fine. eating does help though. I'm eating over 7500-8500 cals a day, so I'm full all day, but even still, the more I eat the better I feel. eati8ng even makes my headache go away come to think of it.

scorpiochic, if you don't mind me asking, what is your age and level of fitness? do you compete? plan to?

squatter

 

[squatter]

my girl says that she felt pumped in her biceps for an hour after carrying a pair of dumbells across the gym while she was training some one. she also said that she feels like her face is red, but admits that it might be PMS. It's cold here, but she feels like she is let prone to the chills. she still doing 25mcg one morning dose. no headaches or upset stomach.

squatter

 

[scorpiochiq]

had a mild headache today and was sick to my stomach off and on all day. I'de feel like puking then a minute later be fine. eating does help though. I'm eating over 7500-8500 cals a day, so I'm full all day, but even still, the more I eat the better I feel. eati8ng even makes my headache go away come to think of it.

scorpiochic, if you don't mind me asking, what is your age and level of fitness? do you compete? plan to?

squatter

I have been having headaches as well, and on Sat I actually puked. I didn't note it in this diary because I wasn't sure if it was because of the IGF or because I took tylenol on an empty stomache.

I also figured out that eating takes the headache away.

Squatter, I am turning 27 in the next couple of weeks. I would say my level of fitness is non-competitive however I train hard 5 days a week with competitive athletes and have a similar training/diet style and mindset (hmmm, aesthetic perfectionist). I don't plan to compete, except against myself. I just want to take my body to the next level, without using anabolics.

IS your girl using igf alone?

 

[scorpiochiq]

Day 7) One week. I feel like I should have something more noteworthy to write but to tell you the truth I don't - and am fairly disappointed at that. I felt/looked leaner before my cheat day/weekend towards the beginning of this igf cycle than now.

I did chest today. Felt strong. Not too much of a pump though, of course chest is a hard thing to really feel a pump in. To tell you the truth though my workout had a bit of a black cloud over it because I was hoping at the one week mark I would be able to see more of a change and was pissed to see there wasn't much of one.

 

[MaxRep]

Despite what someone up above said, the mirror does lie because your mind plays tricks on you.

Subjective "feelings" about how you're feeling throughout the day and in the gym don't count for much when trying to determine the value of a product. The only thing that counts is a change in your body equal to your desires. And the only way to determine that is with objective means.

Weight does fluctuate and that's why a once or twice a week weigh in done for an extended period of time works very well.

Anyone who thinks you're going to see dramatic changes within a short time frame is not very experienced with anybody but beginners, who are the only people with whom dramatic changes will occur fairly rapidly.

Your feelings now are exactly why I earlier advocated using objective means of determining the effectiveness of the IGF. If you had something concrete to measure, you would know if there has been a benefit from the IGF. As it is, as I said earlier, you have no idea and now you're trying to make a determination with faulty data.

If you continue as you are, without taking objective measurements, I can guarantee one thing will happen. Your postings will oscillate between "everthing's wonderful" and "this stuff sucks" and everything in between. The good news is therefore, the way you feel today will later be replaced with a conviction that you're looking 10 times better and the IGF is working miracles. The bad news is you will also, at times, feel you definitely look no better than when you started and the IGF is a waste of money. And when this is all over, you will not really know which one is true.

Happy trails,

MaxRep

 

[scorpiochiq]

I agree. Valid points. Unfortunately I don't have any calipers and my scale is broken. That is why I have been continueing the way I have been - until I replace it.

 

[BGMKE7]

is this objective?

before igf-1 i eat everything in sight and i get fat.(but big)
during igf-1 i eat everything in sight and i actually lose weight and see more veins.(and look so much better)
i think that says it all.
also im not a beginner and i have seen dramatic changes with adding igf-1 to my training.

 

[scorpiochiq]

I still need to diet hardcore on IGF

 

[PRAETORIAN]

Despite what someone up above said, the mirror does lie because your mind plays tricks on you.

Subjective "feelings" about how you're feeling throughout the day and in the gym don't count for much when trying to determine the value of a product. The only thing that counts is a change in your body equal to your desires. And the only way to determine that is with objective means.

Weight does fluctuate and that's why a once or twice a week weigh in done for an extended period of time works very well.

Anyone who thinks you're going to see dramatic changes within a short time frame is not very experienced with anybody but beginners, who are the only people with whom dramatic changes will occur fairly rapidly.

Your feelings now are exactly why I earlier advocated using objective means of determining the effectiveness of the IGF. If you had something concrete to measure, you would know if there has been a benefit from the IGF. As it is, as I said earlier, you have no idea and now you're trying to make a determination with faulty data.

If you continue as you are, without taking objective measurements, I can guarantee one thing will happen. Your postings will oscillate between "everthing's wonderful" and "this stuff sucks" and everything in between. The good news is therefore, the way you feel today will later be replaced with a conviction that you're looking 10 times better and the IGF is working miracles. The bad news is you will also, at times, feel you definitely look no better than when you started and the IGF is a waste of money. And when this is all over, you will not really know which one is true.

Happy trails,

MaxRep

Max, you make some valid points and I am not sure if you were referring to me on the issue of subjectivity..but anyways just a few notes...

As a competitive BB for over 8 years and having trained IFBB athletes I can attest to how the mirror can lie yes...it is always a good idea to get someone else's objective opinion...the scale or calipers dont lie but they can be misinterpreted greatly and also lead the experiment. I think the real reason most athletes are trying IGF is that they are seeking dramatic changes which have been well documented by other users. I am not sure if you have been following the IGF thread originally started here by LA or the original one on Muscle Nexus which started this whole debate, but either way the changes seen were "dramatic" and they were seen in advanced level, well trained competitive BB's. I dont have the handles readily available but i do remember many saying the effects were unlike anything done before ..including GH, slin, aas etc....these BB have been using various ergogens for many years and are not novices by any means....the results were substantial enough that even in advanced level BB's measurement were not required...this is what started the IGF discussion and the responder/non responder issue as well.
I understand where you are coming from and i agree with what you are saying in relation to documentation..my point is though..that the results I and others are looking for go far beyond the scale or tape....others have documented them and this is what we are looking for as well.
Peace,
P

 

[PRAETORIAN]

Re: is this objective?

before igf-1 i eat everything in sight and i get fat.(but big)
during igf-1 i eat everything in sight and i actually lose weight and see more veins.(and look so much better)
i think that says it all.
also im not a beginner and i have seen dramatic changes with adding igf-1 to my training.

My point exactly...thanks for chiming in bro..you are one of the BB's I was referring to!
Peace,
P

 

[squatter]

my girl is taking clen and t-3. she has to make a public apearence and wants to lean out dramatically, fast. not the wisest thing to do IMO, but she is very inteligent and knows more than most.

I've dropped the dose to 50mcg. 100mcg was too much discomfort. headaches and stomach pains are no problem now. hungry all the time. I'm trying to put size on, so I'm eating everything in site. actually, I always eat clean as a life habit, but I'm eating tons. only 4 days in. so no major weight changes thus far.

squatter

 

[MaxRep]

Praetorian, other than speaking to SC, I was just speaking in general.

However, the following is for you.

"but either way the changes seen were "dramatic" and they were seen in advanced level, well trained competitive BB's."

Don't you see the problem here? You're making an incorrect assumption that everyone makes dramatic gains. Some people make no gains. Some people make minimal gains. Some people make respectable gains. And some people make awesome gains.

SJR who I'm sure you know, who is a national level Heavyweight, used IGF in various formats and I believe in dosages up to 120mcg/day. He reported zero benefit. Not only that, but he also reported on at least 6 other people who he knows who used IGF and all 6, also reported zero benefit. I have seen on other boards, some people love it and some people think it's an expensive joke. Regarding SJR, I saw him at the recent TOC in Culver City and he looked great. Too bad he missed his weight class limit and had to go up against the SuperHeavies.

Anyone using a new product for the first time should use it in as controlled a manner as possible. They should also use objective means of identifying any gains. After all, if they fall into the "make minimal gains" category, the mirror will probably lie one way or the other and their objective measurements are the only way they'll know what gains they made.

SC has apparently made no gains after her first week. Obviously she's one of the ones not making Dramatic gains. How anyone can not see the need in such a case for objective methods of measuring any future gains or lack of gains is beyond my understanding.

Get a tape and tape her measurements. Do it once a week and graph them. Measure her strength with weight at 10 rep max. on 3 basic exercises. Do that once every 2 weeks and graph that. Keep track of her caloric intake.

Maybe she's not eating enough, I don't know. I don't think you two know either. What I do know is that you and she will get to the end of her IGF cycle and only have a vague feeling as to how the IGF worked or didn't work. If someone then asks her how much fat she lost, or how many pounds of muscle she gained, or how much her squat poundage went up for 10 reps, or how many grams of protein she had to eat to see a benefit, or how much she gained on her arms, you'll be saying "I don't know" a lot.

Since you bring up your experience, all I can say is that's great, but you probably still have a lot to learn. Personally, I did my first AAS cycle 24 years ago and won my first contest 15 years ago. And I too still have a lot to learn.

Peace,

MaxRep