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Thread: Why Ever Come Off Cycle?

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    Default Why Ever Come Off Cycle?



    IGF-1 Sale!
    I've been thinking about this alot lately....I have no wife, no kids, i'm not worried about my health.....in reality we don't know the long term effects of steroid use and we only know the negative effects of steroid abuse of a few individuals that the media has blown up.....in medical ethics they can't do a controlled "long-term" use study anyways.....

    I've pretty much been following the following protocol for the last 4-5 months and am not interested in cutting back a few weeks just to ramp it up again....why not just ramp it up or run it the same as I've been doing, but switch up compounds of course......

    I've copy and pasted the "GEAR" portion of Growth Principles by Big A....I've been doing the training and eating (for the most part) and have been pretty close to following the Gear portion



    from Growth Principles for Beginners by Big A

    GEAR

    You need a testosterone base. 750mg/week is plenty. You need an anabolic – deca or Eq at 400mg/week is plenty. You need for optimum growth, a good oral like d-bol at 30mg/d or A-50 50mg/d. You use the test and the anabolic non stop. The oral is 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Every 6th week (the half way point between the off oral period – so 2 weeks after you finish the oral) you have a blood test. If the blood test is OK, then you can begin your next 4 weeks on oral. There is no reason for you to come off. The only 2 reasons are health or your receptors are saturated. If the regular blood test is OK, your health is OK. If you are still making progress, your receptors are OK. Coming off, will just sabotage your gains. That’s why I do not believe in set time frames for cycles. Listen to your body. When you use the oral, you need to use all the liver aids available – Synthergine, Milk Thistle, L-methionine, Liv-52, etc. Of course you cannot drink or do rec drugs during that time. Using these precautions, your blood tests will be OK.
    You also need to use an anti estrogen like Nolvadex at 10mg/d throughout the whole time. Also, you have a choice between HCG every 4 weeks at 5000IU or Clomid at 50mg EOD. These will make sure that your balls will stay at a decent size and they will not forget how to function. The blood tests that you need are: full blood count, liver and kidney function tests, FSH, LH, TSH, cholesterol. If the Total protein test in the liver tests is high, that is because of your diet. You need to keep an eye on the Billirubin and Urea test results. Your FSH and LH will be suppressed – that’s normal because of the gear. If the TSH is low, add 20mcg/d T3. If the kidney function is off, then drink more. Protein stresses the kidneys, so you need more fluids. When you eventually come off the gear, you make sure that you are off the orals. Then cut out the anabolic over 2 weeks. Then the testosterone over 3 weeks. One week after that, you need to add primo tabs or anavar (oxandrin) for 3 weeks. That will ensure that you will keep your gains.
    Ideally do a gainkeeper’s formula that is outlined in another article.
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    Got this from steroid.com. It's but one argument for cycling off:

    Coming Off Steroids
    "On occasion, elite bodybuilders stay on steroids for several years at a time. This is due to the fact that they must be in shape for multiple contests as well as guest appearances throughout the year. This non-stop regimen has claimed some victims. Mendenhall comes to mind. This guy had the potential to be one of the best bodybuilders in history. Yet, he admittedly burned out on steroids before he could even claim a national championship. Hill is another bodybuilder which I have recently seen suffer from the demanding, non-stop steroid regimen required at this level. After rocketing to the top, he has recently dropped out of sight. Demelo was another up and coming national competitor who burned out on steroids and never made it. I think he is trying to make a "natural" comeback - - good luck, bud. Santoriello took a serious setback after his teenage success before coming back to win the national championships. I heard that he was messed up by steroids. Some don't think he can make it as a professional because of the amount of drugs he has to take to stay in shape. (Oh, I mean the amount of Cybergenic Kits - give me a break!). Numerous pro bodybuilders and active top level national competitors find themselves in similar situations. Their contest schedule is just too busy for off cycle periods. Since their success is so heavily dependent on being in top shape, steroids become an absolute must for their program all year long".
    (From: Anabolic Reference Guide, 6th Issue, 1991, by W Nathaniel Phillips, partial excerpt of an interview with a former bodybuilder pro who participated at IFBB championships for several years.)


    The reasons why athletes voluntarily or willy-nilly discontinue steroids are various - One of the main reasons which speak for an interruption of the steroid regime are, as the above example has shown, certain possible health risks. Some discontinue steroids simply out of habit because one has heard that after a maximum of 12 weeks a suspension of the same period is suggested. Some discontinue because of limited financial resources or in view of a championship with doping tests. Often, also, the decreasing effect of the administered steroids and the smaller gains which manifest themselves after several weeks are a determining factor. Something almost all athletes have in common with this scenario: One is looking forward to the following weeks with mixed feelings since one does not know what to expect and those who already have some experience (mostly negative) know only too well what lies ahead. Possible apprehensions are, by all means, justified since most athletes experience the classic interruption symptoms such as weight loss, less body strength, muscular atrophy (loss of muscle tissue) and increased fat deposits. Some experience depressions, aversion to training, lethargy, and a lack of discipline. How is this possible- Very simply, the athlete experiences a catabolic phase. The athlete now has to deal with two major problems which will burden him during the following weeks and which make several athletes go "back to the stuff " after interrupting their steroid regime for only a very short time. First, it is very likely that the body's own testosterone production will be reduced since most steroids have an inhibiting effect on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, resulting in a reduced testosterone production in the, testes by the Leydig's cells. The extent of the reduction depends on the duration of the steroid intake and especially on the strength of the steroids taken. The more androgenic a steroid the more distinct its inhibiting effect on the endogenous testosterone production. In first place are certainly the various testosterone compounds Dianabol and Anadrol, exactly what works so well. When taking the more moderate steroids including Deca Durabolin, Primobolan, Winstrol, the extent of a possible endogenous testosterone -suppression is not only lower but also much slower and more even. Studies of Dianabol, for example, have shown that a conservative dosage of 20 mg/day after only 10 days leads to a 30% to 40% suppression. Since the body's own hormone production cannot be elevated from one day to the next, the athlete experiences a critical over bridging phase. The effect of the exogenous hormones is nonexistent and the body's own testosterone level helps only little to improve the situation. Thus it is important to increase the endogenous testosterone production as quickly as possible. How this is possible we will describe in the following section.

    The second problem is the clearly more relevant and probably the more decisive factor for the potentially considerable performance loss of the athletes. As we know, steroids have a highly anticatabolic effect by reducing the catabolic effect of the body's own hormone, cortisone. When taking steroids, the steroid molecules block the cortisone receptors so that the cortisone produced by the adrenal gland cannot attach to the receptors, thus remaining for the most part deactivated. The body reacts by producing additional cortisone receptors so that, in the meantime, the unusually high amount of cortisone receptors in the blood can finally do their job. This again is not very serious as long as the athlete continues to take the steroids as planned. However, when the steroid regime is terminated the cortisone receptors are suddenly freed and the large quantity of free cortisone molecules in the blood now know exactly what to do. They rush to the cortisone receptors to form a molecule/receptor complex and transmit to the muscle cell the following message which is so unpleasant for the athlete: break down amino acids. These leave the muscle cell and enter the blood where they are transformed into glucose or blood sugar. The consequence of this process has already been described in another chapter. The athlete's second problem, in addition to increasing the endogenous testosterone production, is to lower the cortisone level to an acceptable level. As the reader knows, this goal is achievable to a high extent. In the following we will describe a sensible, step-by-step approach to interrupt the steroid regime, and the time after. Particular attention will be paid to the two problematic factors described in detail. We want to, however, explicitly emphasize that this information is no guarantee to protect the athlete from a loss of performance.



    1.)It is important that the athlete predetermines the time when he will stop the intake so that he can sufficiently prepare himself for it. This especially means to procure the necessary supportive preparations and to find the right mental attitude.


    2.)Prepare for day X slowly and steadily The athlete should stop taking the strongly androgenic steroids approximately four weeks before interrupting the steroid regime. When tablets such as Dianabol or Anadrol are taken, these are to be reduced slowly and evenly within fourteen days so that exactly two weeks before day X the oral intake of predominantly androgenic, steroids is terminated. Those who take injectable, androgenic steroids such as Testosterone or Parabolan reduce these to zero within four weeks so that their intake will end on day X. The milder, oral steroids such as Primobolan S, Winstrol, Oxandrolone, Oral-Turinabol, etc. are slowly and evenly reduced fourteen days before day X so that after two weeks they are no longer taken. It is sufficient when the dosage of the "weaker" injectable steroids such as Deca-Durabolin, Primobolan Depot, Winstrol Depot is reduced to half of their intake about one week before termination.


    3.)Avoid an abrupt discontinuance of all steroids at the same time because the body would enter an immediate catabolic phase. The cortisone receptors will be free and in combination with the low testosterone and androgen levels a considerable loss of strength and mass, and an increase of fat and water, and often gynecomastia will occur. Gynecomastia is possible because the suddenly low androgen level shifts the relationship in favor of the estrogens which suddenly become the domineering hormone. Especially eye-catching is also the extreme listlessness to training or sex and a generally weak state of mind of several athletes. If not forced because of medical reasons never discontinue steroids "cold turkey"


    4.)If the athlete does not yet take antiestrogens he should begin their intake during the last weeks before ending the steroid regime. Athletes who already take antiestrogens the weeks before should continue to do so over the described interval. A daily combination of 20 mg Nolvadex and 25 mg Proviron is usually sufficient for this purpose. This avoids an estrogen surplus, an important factor, which also must be considered when in the following testosterone stimulants such as HCG are taken since HCG often also increases the estrogen level. Since the androgenic effect of Proviron also promotes the increase of the androgen level the androgen/estrogen ratio is further shifted in favor of the androgens. The possibility of a rebound effect after the discontinuance of the antiestrogen combination is considerably reduced by Proviron.


    5.)In order to increase the body's own testosterone production the athlete, on one hand, takes HCG which directly and quickly stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes and, on the other hand, takes Clomid which promotes the complete hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, however, it needs a longer start-up phase. The administration of HCG begins during the last week of discontinuance. The athlete injects three times 5000 i.u. in a three-day interval. Following, three more injections of 5000 i.u. are injected every five days. After the third HCG injection the intake of Clomid begins since its gonadotropin-stimulating effect in the event of an already activated increased testicular activity is more effective. Clomid is now taken over two weeks, two tablets of 50 mg each per day in the first week and 50 mg tablets per day in the second week. Point 5 obviously does not apply to women.


    (6.)All this, however, helps only if the athlete is able to mostly block out the catabolic effect of the increased cortisone level. A compound which, because of its distinct anticatabolic effect, fulfills this requirement is the beta-2 sympathomimetic, Clenbuterol. Clenbuterol successfully blocks the cortisone receptors so that the athlete is usually able to maintain a large portion of the strength and muscle mass built up by the steroids. The intake of Clenbuterol begins directly at the end of the steroid therapy and continues over 8-10 weeks (see also Clenbuterol). Another compound of the group of sympaticomimetics which also has an anticatabolic effect (but less pronounced than Clenbuterol) is Ephedrine. Probably the most suitable drug in this situation is a preparation which in school medicine is used in the treatment of the Cushing's syndrome, a hyperfunction of the adrenal glands which causes the body to produce too much cortisone. Those who have read this book carefully will know which drug is meant: Cytadren. Since it reduces the cortisone level extremely well athletes usually take it directly after completion of a steroid treatment (see also Cytadren). Several athletes take thyroid hormones in this phase since they have an anabolic effect when taken in small dosages and for not excessively long intake intervals. Their effect can be clearly increased by the anticatabolic effect of Clenbuterol which explains why this combination is used during the phase of discontinuance. The use of growth hormone also makes sense since it has a strong anticatabolic/anabolic effect. You can forget Ornithin and Arginin which supposedly increase the realising of GH, because they are ineffective. Distance yourself from the thought that pharmaceutically improved muscle mass can be maintained with "natural methods."


    7.)Adjust your nutrition according to the new situation. After discontinuance of the steroid intake the metabolism will go back to normal. This means that the athlete should reduce his daily caloric intake over the course of several days by 25-30%. The protein supply, however, should still be relatively high at 1- 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight per day.


    8.)Reduce your workout schedule. Avoid maintaining the same workout program as during steroid regime since this would only magnify the catabolic effect. The athlete should not come up with the crazy idea of compensating a possible loss of performance by increasing the extent and intensity of his workout since such an action would have a negative effect. Limit yourself to your basic exercises, train every muscle once a week, and try to maintain your strength as much as possible. Do not train more than four times a week and limit the workout sessions to 60 minutes. Several so called "experts" are of the opinion that the athlete after a steroid regime should avoid the heavy basic movements for some time and suggest that exercises are carried out more frequently with lower weights. Dear Reader, try it. Those who used to make 8 repetitions of squats with 400 pounds and now switch to leg extensions or leg presses with 12-15 repetitions will wonder how fast an upper thigh can lose size.


    9.)Reality has shown that with the necessary knowledge, discipline, ambition, and willpower a considerable amount of the strength and muscle mass built up by the steroids can be maintained. Apart from the year-round steroid intake, a successful over bridging interval between the various treatments is the only way to achieve continuous improvements. Certainly, often it is necessary to go one step back in order to make two steps forward. This is absolutely normal and nothing is said against it. What many, however, do is go two steps back and move two steps forward so that their performance is stagnant. Almost everyone knows how to build up with steroids but only very few are able to maintain the results. Correctly interrupting the steroid regime in combination with a sensible interval of over bridging helps maintain results and creates the basis for a further, successful steroid regime.
    Last edited by NAIR; 01-15-2010 at 04:20 PM.

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    Well if your not concerned with your health, which is a pretty dumb comment to make, then go for it, dont take any breaks in between cycles, because thats why a lot of people take breaks. Another is to give your receptors a break. If your not concerned with your health, then run 2-3 grams of test for a year.

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    STEROIDS ARE NOT DANGEROUS.. THEY ARE COMPLETELY SAFE.

    I have a buddy who has been using NON-STOP for 20 years.. everything is perfectly fine with him. I have been using so far for 3 years straight .. I AM PERFECTLY HEALTHY... I am on hrt though.. so I can NEVER COME OFF..

    You seriously think Jay Cutler or Branch Warren or Dex Jackson or ANY of the IFBB pro's ever come off!?!? Hell no!! Wanna know why?? Because the second they do their bodies will naturally start to degenerate back to their GENETIC MAX LIMIT STATE.

    If you wanna be BIG.. You MUST go BIG. Plain and simple.

    I am sick and tired of hearing people say steroids are dangerous. THEY AREN'T.

    It's the media that creates it this way.

    What is dangerous are compounds like DNP and Diuretics... That's what is killing people. Not the people who take 2-3 grams of Test per week.. COME ON MAN.. use your head..

    STEROIDS ARE NOT THE VITAL ORGAN DESTROYERS PEOPLE LIKE YOU FITNESS MAKE THEM OUT TO BE.

    First off,NO ONE has written the book on how much to use steroids...

    Steroids ARE an experience....

    There isnt anything more about it...

    We are all men here and whatever u do you accept FULL RESPONSIBILITY for your actions....

    We dont need GOD or ANYONE ELSE for that matter pointing fingers about whats too much and how much you should use...

    How would you know whats to much? Did you read it in some mickey mouse steroid book? Or do you just gauge it yourself and make it up as u go?...

    It so bogus to flame those that u feel use to much when your playing dart games too...

    And facts are no matter how much you use or little u do in the eyes of the outsiders we all are the chemical demons ...

    A villain at that using a controlled substance act that categorized Anabolic Steroid into the same class as drugs like heroin and cocaine....Its sad but ture....Try telling the outsider that U only use a little bit.....lol..yeah right...


    -END RANT.



    Now Irish my brother from another mother.. You and I have discussed this before. I am never coming off.. I have the God Given Genetics to be a MASS MONSTER and by GOD I am going to be one.. and YOU my friend have the same integrity and drive and genetics and determination to become whatever you want too...

    DON'T LET ANYONE TELL YOU THAT YOUR LIFESTYLE IS DANGEROUS. EVER !!
    Last edited by The Deuce; 01-15-2010 at 06:56 PM.

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    hmmmm, I guess I need to get a little more educated about overal usage of gear, because I just thought that using 2-3 grams of test every week for 20-30 years straight had to be dangerous in some way or another....

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    i've already made my decision to use anything and everything available to me for life.....i don't mind being a guinea pig for the world....the results i've already seen last year with this mentality still amaze me....now mind you this is just with aas....i've yet to use igf, insulin, hgh, synthol, etc.....along with the number of compounds i've taken (and have so nonstop since the beginning of sept is when i started up again) i've not used any ancillaries or anti-e's, although i have them on hand...i've not needed them.....because my side effects have been minimal (other than fucking tren cough when i was on at only 75mg eod) i feel my genetics will allow me to use more and stay on longer than most individuals.....also this is making me wonder why i wasted my time with small cycles in the past....although they gave me nice, consistent growth..they didn't make the overnight transformation i've seen recently
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    I never said I would ever use 2-3 grams every single week for 20-30 years but during my blast phases YOU ARE DAMN STRAIGHT I use 2grams of Test per week..

    Dude, my receptors are so torched that it takes 400mgs of prescription cyp from my Endo to get High Normal Test Levels (834ng/ml) -- 2g's of test per week hits me at peak muscle growth of Total Test at 2701ng/ml...

    Your whole view of the fact that steroids are dangerous is totally misconstrued, do I think that the average user should stay on forever.. NO.

    Do I think someone looking to just better their physique and achieve the best look that they want for themselves through the ways of AAS should cycle on and off .. YES !!

    But to the people looking to be a PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER, POWERLIFTER, OR STRONGMAN... There is no set standard for how much is too much.

    FIND ME AN ARTICLE ANYWHERE THAT STATES THAT STEROIDS ARE DANGEROUS, and is backed up with facts .. then we can talk.

    Point being, how many AAS users have you heard of or do you know that are on a liver transplant list??

    Now, how many people do you know suffering from acute liver failure from alcohol abuse??

    How many AAS users have you heard of or do you know that have had AAS related heart issues??

    Now how many smokers have you heard of or do you know that suffer acute high volume heart disease..??


    AND THIS IS JUST FROM THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE LEGAL FOR ANYONE OVER THE AGE OF 18/21 TO PURCHASE AT FREE WILL...


    Do you hate being proven wrong or something?? There has never been ONE SINGLE DEATH DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONNECTED TO ANABOLIC/ANDROGENIC STEROIDS.

    End of Story.

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    That's awesome Irish bro.. I am glad you decided to go that route.. it's the only way really.. Piddly ass cycles are for people who are looking to just "SAY" Yah man, I use steroids, I'm cool!!

    The real growth, the real transformations start happening when you do what I do and what you have decided on doing and have been doing.

    I myself will guinea pig right beside you.

    I have never taken a mg of Nolvadex/Clomid/Adex/Aromasin during a cycle.. EVER... I don't get side effects that warrant the usage of such things... now when I use to have to PCT like an idiot thinking I HAD TO COME OFF.. That was a different story ...

    The only thing that I think people should use in conjunction with any AAS is a Prolactin Antagonist when running a 19-nor .. I.E.- Caber(What I always use), bromocriptine, and Prami.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    I never said I would ever use 2-3 grams every single week for 20-30 years but during my blast phases YOU ARE DAMN STRAIGHT I use 2grams of Test per week..

    Dude, my receptors are so torched that it takes 400mgs of prescription cyp from my Endo to get High Normal Test Levels (834ng/ml) -- 2g's of test per week hits me at peak muscle growth of Total Test at 2701ng/ml...

    Your whole view of the fact that steroids are dangerous is totally misconstrued, do I think that the average user should stay on forever.. NO.

    Do I think someone looking to just better their physique and achieve the best look that they want for themselves through the ways of AAS should cycle on and off .. YES !!

    But to the people looking to be a PROFESSIONAL BODYBUILDER, POWERLIFTER, OR STRONGMAN... There is no set standard for how much is too much.

    FIND ME AN ARTICLE ANYWHERE THAT STATES THAT STEROIDS ARE DANGEROUS, and is backed up with facts .. then we can talk.

    Point being, how many AAS users have you heard of or do you know that are on a liver transplant list??

    Now, how many people do you know suffering from acute liver failure from alcohol abuse??

    How many AAS users have you heard of or do you know that have had AAS related heart issues??

    Now how many smokers have you heard of or do you know that suffer acute high volume heart disease..??


    AND THIS IS JUST FROM THE PRODUCTS THAT ARE LEGAL FOR ANYONE OVER THE AGE OF 18/21 TO PURCHASE AT FREE WILL...


    Do you hate being proven wrong or something?? There has never been ONE SINGLE DEATH DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONNECTED TO ANABOLIC/ANDROGENIC STEROIDS.

    End of Story.
    Why you gettin so up tight bro, that 2-3grams of test a week gettin to you? I never said I hate being "proven wrong". I'm not saying your wrong an I am right, or the other way around, why I find an article how about you find where I said I hate being proved wrong, k? And I agree, that the media has it hyped up tremendously, and I also agree that there are people dieing every day from smoking, drinking, drugs etc and that using steriods are not as dangerous if used "properly".

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member jtunderdog's Avatar
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    Ive read about 90 percent of this post and the thing I think is that it all depends on goals. If you are going to compete at a national level you are going to have to either be flex wheeler with a myostatin mutation or make a commitment to do what it takes. If you are doing this for cosmetics (I guess in a way I would put myself somewhat in this category) you aren't going to have to make the kinds of sacrifices an ifbb pro or hopeful will make. Airborne I know what you mean by health is not a concern but take it from someone who has immune issues, your health is one of the most important things you have. I personally have taken gear to break plateaus. Genetically I don't have what it takes to compete as a heavy weight and Im okay with that. I do want to have larger than 17 inch arms and after 13 years of training I would say its going to take some help and a better diet to stay in that place. Why come off? I say if you are willing to do whatever it takes because you want to compete go with what you think is going to help you attain your goals but get blood tests and keep yourself healthy. The biggest guy ever in a coffin is dead. If you can take gear with no health side effects and you are doing it for cosmetics go ahead. If you are doing it to be cool and gain a ton of weight and size without being committed to the lifestyle don' take it because when you do get off you are going to lose the gains and probably be in worse shape than before. Just my two cents.
    Is a fictitious character who talks about interesting topics just for fun. If your arms are 12 inches...don't shave them.

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    By the way airborne I know you aren't taking gear to be cool that was just me making a parallel to someone reading this post and who may be considering running something without doing any research just to be big. You know what I mean. I am not attacking anyone by any means but it just seems like its all about goals to me.
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    well U look at the pros-as long as they are pros and amateurs they pretty much stay on NONSTOP for like what 15-20 years?

    could be wrong here but I think they are probably on more than 2-3G of test a week...more like on anything they can get their hands on-they're still alive.

    Hell when they get in their 50s and 60s they are probably way healthier than most people their age.

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    MuscleChemistry Guru freakinthegym's Avatar
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    i dont ever plan on coming off, lol i'll be 60 still stickin myself.

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Exactly Dorian.. Thank you !!

    And Fitness.. Sorry bro.. it's just one of those things that gets me heated when I hear someone saying AAS are unhealthy.. IF ANYTHING.. They are healthier than not taking them IMHO.. Seriously. The more muscle you have the overall healthier you are because the less fat you have. FAT IS BAD. *Well excess fat is bad.. some fat is necessary* Man it boils down to the basic chemistry of human health. If a man suffers from LOW testosterone .. then he will reap a lot of BAD benefits on his health... higher risk of cardiovascular disease.. just a whole bunch of nasty things.. Erectile dysfunction. NOW, You reverse that and have HIGH Testosterone (no matter what the level it is) and all those "BAD SIDES OF LOW TESTOSTERONE" Go away..

    So.. yah.. like Dorian said.. a Man who was a PRO-BB-er for like 20 years and used AAS for 30 years.. and in their 50's and 60's and in a million times better health than any other comparative 50 or 60 year old man that NEVER used AAS...

    No hard feelings bro, i just get worked up about this issue. Mainly just because Steroids are 100% safe !!

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Yeah FREAK !! Now that's what I am saying !!

    Me too.. but even if i wanted to come off.. if I wanna have SEXUAL INTERCOURSE.. I need my Test Injections... so my options are limited .. LOL

    Because I am always gonna wanna slam the va-jay-jay !!

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorian123 View Post
    well U look at the pros-as long as they are pros and amateurs they pretty much stay on NONSTOP for like what 15-20 years?

    could be wrong here but I think they are probably on more than 2-3G of test a week...more like on anything they can get their hands on-they're still alive.

    Hell when they get in their 50s and 60s they are probably way healthier than most people their age.
    exactly on all of your points, but especially the highlighted one
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Hahaha, Irish we both said EXACTLY to what Dorian said.. crazy !! LOL

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    MuscleChemistry Vet Juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    i dont care about a f**ing trophy, being pro or wanting to be pro dont mean shit to if you should or should not stay on all the time.
    that being said
    im on year round but on HRT dose 3-4months of the year (250mg ew test). and blast with 1-2g test and another compound like deca or trean or mast ect.
    I think when one stays on yearound that what they SHOULD WACH is ORALS.
    they can be very bad for you. nvm the liver stuff sure it hard on liver some more then others but thats not my worrie its the cholesterol in blood!

    orals REALLY can mess up your levels BIGTME.

    so i try to run oral only 6-8weeks long (depends on oral winny would be closer to 4 weeks) 2-3 times a year tops.

    the rest stricly oil's.

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    MuscleChemistry Vet Juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    because Steroids are 100% safe !!
    I dotn agree with that statment but yes there pretty safe.

    you know drinking toomuch water in one go could kill you. a lady died close to hom for trying to win a water drinking contest. 2 gallons in liek 20 min she won went home and died had 2 kids it was for a nentendo wii for them.
    the radeo station got sued because they didnt make her sign a liability form since they "thought water was safe"

    take halo for 12 or 24 weeks straight. you cant tell me thats safe.

    i do agree there pritty safe though.

    oils specially

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Ok yes JP.. I agree.. I was referring mainly to TESTOSTERONE... and yes.. Orals for more than 6 weeks for most 8 weeks for some is MAX. To remain safe.. I guess I should have been more exact with my words... YEAR ROUND PERMANENT TEST IS 100% SAFE... Blasting to larger levels and adding in different oils = safe.. adding orals in and keeping them within a reasonable timeframe of use = safe.

    It is my opinion that ANY oral has done all it is going to after 6 weeks.. I haven't had much luck in gains after the 6 week time frame.

    So yes JP you are correct.

    I guess you filled in the blanks that I forgot to emphasize on.. but I guess I wasn't trying to defend orals more or less. OILS.. More or less.. and MAINLY Testosterone on the whole is what I was referring.

    Ok so... There is a Safe way and an Idiot wrong way.. someone doing an oral for longer than 10 weeks would be considered an idiot wrong way IMO.

    Then we got other kick ass orals like methyl-test and methyl tren that SHOULD STAY IN THE 3-4 Week range at maximum.. just so you don't pickle the hell out of your liver...

    Another one.. CHEQUE DROPS.. IMO.. The most powerful Oral steroid out there. But that's why most people save it for like a one time blast at a time for like a POWERLIFTING Meet.. or STRONGMAN Comp...

    But.. I personally think TEST is what CAN BE RUN AT ANY DOSE FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE (After the age of 24 years)


    There I think I covered it all.. LOL

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    Anabolic steroids are like anything else: depending on your health and overall predisposition to these powerful hormones, if used in moderation and smartly, sure, steroids can be relatively safe. The key word is relatively. Remember, there adverse side effects--primarily cardiovascular--can take its toll. One cannot use these compounds recklessly and think they are living a healthy life; physically or psychologically. To each their own, but to say they are 100% isn’t just an exaggeration, its irresponsible and downright ignorant.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    Really, unless you are an MD, a medical researcher or some other kind of medical specialist you shouldn't be making these statements at all. If this is your opinion, than fine, say that. But its quite ridicurous to make such claims when you clearly havn't got the right to state such things. Go to med school, then study sports medicine for 6 years; then come on here and tell me your professional opinion is that AAS is perfectly fine to use whenever and however and cycling off is just BS.

    My point isn't to talk shit, rather that I think your claims are unsupported and further, you are unqualified to make them as they apply to other people. Post anecdotes all day long but I feel you should make clear that that's all they are.
    Last edited by NAIR; 01-15-2010 at 10:33 PM.

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    MuscleChemistry Guru dorian123's Avatar
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    I don't think doctors are qualified to make them, there hasn't been enough research on te subject

    the proof is in the puddin, like John Ramono once said, "show me the bodies, if steriods are so dangerous, show me the bodies."
    Last edited by dorian123; 01-15-2010 at 10:49 PM.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Get_Swole's Avatar
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    I can see both sides i think test and some other oils are perfectly safe in moderation as long as you blast and cruise. etc. Now if you do one blast of say 3g's a year i think your pushing the envelope although you may be perfectly fine. Also i believe its perfectly safe as long as you monitor your body/ blood test a minimum of 4 times a year. Most of us already do this im just saying some dont. I agree with Nair though that no one can say 100% safe without some sort of doubt as its never been proven or studied long term usage. Thats all i have the energy to type lol 12 hour days installing steel = Swole's bed time.
    All statements from Get_Swole are strictly fictional none of the statements should be taken seriously or literally.

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    MuscleChemistry member nuknuk's Avatar
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    well Im still trying to find out what works best for me. As of now I come completely off from cycle to cycle. Some are long and some have been short. There are some good points on this thread.

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    Im heading into 6th year of my cycle. Feel great. I go higher in summer, low end in winter. Take clomid about 25 days a month, balls are full. Full head of hair. psa went from .08 to .09 in 5 years. Most important feel/look good.

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    MuscleChemistry member nuknuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickdoo View Post
    Im heading into 6th year of my cycle. Feel great. I go higher in summer, low end in winter. Take clomid about 25 days a month, balls are full. Full head of hair. psa went from .08 to .09 in 5 years. Most important feel/look good.
    so you are saying you have been on for 6 years?

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Fine Nair. I could care less. Whatever. I am not going to debate this anymore. You want to think they are dangerous. That's your own opinion. I have mine. Point is. There is no medical proof either way. So I can go to medical school. It isn't going to teach me anything. All of us on this site KNOW MORE than any licensed practicing Doctor out there.


    By the way. You really don't know me. Considering I have a degree in Nutrional Science, Human Anatomy, and Chemistry... I think I might know a little bit about WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.. But make your point. Call me ignorant. Whatever. I am not going to bicker. No need to. If you don't think they are safe. Then don't use them.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member jtunderdog's Avatar
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    I will add one more thing. The amazing thing about research is that it oddly comes out to benefit the person who paid for it usually to. I have taken about 4 stats classes and several research classes and even if the fda did a study they would make steroids seem way worse than alcohol or cigarettes just because they need the tax money. One of the most dangerous drugs on the planet is....Tylenol. No joke. They will sell it to anyone and I know a girl who almost killed herself trying to go to sleep by taking tylenol pms. Tylenol and alcohol combined is way more toxic than any oral ever. My point is its all about money and I think we all know that.
    Is a fictitious character who talks about interesting topics just for fun. If your arms are 12 inches...don't shave them.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    You must care; otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time arguing about it. The fact is you are wrong: anabolic steroids can be dangerous and the medical documentation and evidence is so strong that hardly any one doubts it--well any reasonable person. Even the aforementioned John Romano (who is not even close to a med-specialist) acknowledges the dangers of misusing "these very powerful drugs." (He discusses this on Real Sports with Brian Gumble). I mean, "steroids are 100% safe"? Wow, in the words of nuk (from another thread), "that is the biggest bullshit I've ever heard."

    Your degree is not on only unimpressive, but totally irrelevant. If you told me you had published peer reviewed research within the subject than maybe I could begin to consider you credible but your argument thus far fails. Additionally, usually when one flashes their credentials they usually have at least a masters under their belt and most often the degree is relevant to the subject of their argument.

    By the way, I never judged you ignorant; rather I said the statement you made was. Big difference bud. I simply disagree with what you’re saying, nothing personal.


    Finally, yes, you could go to medical school and if you’re good enough to make it through, yes, it will teach you something. It will teach you a lot. Additionally, there are many endocrinologists who would disagree with your statement regarding board members knowing more than them, specificially, endocrinologists and many sports-med docs. I don't think you are giving them enough credit. Remember, it was an MD and biochemist who first synthesized test, creating the first synthetic AAS.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    Fine Nair. I could care less. Whatever. I am not going to debate this anymore. You want to think they are dangerous. That's your own opinion. I have mine. Point is. There is no medical proof either way. So I can go to medical school. It isn't going to teach me anything. All of us on this site KNOW MORE than any licensed practicing Doctor out there.


    By the way. You really don't know me. Considering I have a degree in Nutrional Science, Human Anatomy, and Chemistry... I think I might know a little bit about WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT.. But make your point. Call me ignorant. Whatever. I am not going to bicker. No need to. If you don't think they are safe. Then don't use them.

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Ok Nair I do care ok.. is that what you want me to say !?

    No I do NOT have a Master's.. I have an Associates in Applied Nutrional Science w/ a Bachelor's in Chemistry minor in Human Anatomy. SO HOW, does this not relate.. The compounds we put in our body are inherently chemical in structure. And since we are human's well I guess it would apply to the anatomy. I did a paper once on the Misconstruing of Facts Via the Internet as a Mode of Knowledge ( I got an A on by the way) basically to sum it up, we as a whole.. a species with a thought process will migrate to where we want to get and pull knowledge from (I used WIKIPEDIA as a prime example).. even though we know that it could be false we buy into it as a reality because why?? It's on the Internet it must be true!! I also had a sub-section on the mass amount of "INTERNET FORUMS" much like this one right now. A congregation of humans with the same Interest ban together to found a coalition of unique trains of thought on the same wave length pattern. The hierarchy will rein supreme in these places much like a KING. I.E.- The Person everyone goes to for information (whether this information is correct or false is irrelevant because as our species tells us.. we believe the person in top power because the are "supposed to" know it all).

    Talk until you are blue in the face Nair. We all know that steroids can be dangerous if taken improperly. That's NOT what I was stating.. Of course If I take 100-50mgs Anadrol's in 3 minutes odds are I won't make it to the next day. Longevity and Cruising and Blasting is what I was talking about as being a SAFE PRACTICE WITH NO HARMFUL SIDE EFFECTS INHERENTLY MAKING THESE THINGS SAFE.

    Knowledge speaks from experience. How many People have died due to Anabolic steroid use? How many can they directly or indirectly tie to this? I think the answer is 1. I think ONE persons death has been attributed to AAS Usage.

    There are a lot more dangerous things out there in the world than AAS. And You can bet your sweet lil ass that no matter what I choose to do regarding my AAS usage/amounts/duration/compound combinations.. I bet I live just as long if not longer than if I was to do NONE AT ALL !!

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    Maybe I took your statement a bit too serious, then. When you said steroids are 100% safe and then proceeded to build an argument based on that claim, I felt that you may have been either misguided, misinformed, or just fucking around. Really, I meant nothing personal by it. ACtually, this kind of took a turn towars the dialectic a bit--good stuff

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    No Hard feelings Nair.. You know I love ya and respect your opinion and such.. and it was 100% MY fault for not being straight forward with my answers... and yes hahaha.. in the end it did tend to sway towards the Socratic techniques.. haha..

    Like I said bro.. I am 28 years old. I don't have all the answers in the world. But to me.. knowledge is Power and.. hopefully in 5-10 years I am one powerful man.. Figuratively and Technically.

    Hey, look what Arnold did. He busted his ass. Became supremely famous and YOU SAY HIS NAME.. Everyone knows who he is. Now that.. Is Power.. Beyond that of the President.. IMO





    I like you Nair I do. It feels good to have some intellectual conversations once in while... when I am ready for another one. Can I call on you??

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    No Hard feelings Nair.. You know I love ya and respect your opinion and such.. and it was 100% MY fault for not being straight forward with my answers... and yes hahaha.. in the end it did tend to sway towards the Socratic techniques.. haha..

    Like I said bro.. I am 28 years old. I don't have all the answers in the world. But to me.. knowledge is Power and.. hopefully in 5-10 years I am one powerful man.. Figuratively and Technically.

    Hey, look what Arnold did. He busted his ass. Became supremely famous and YOU SAY HIS NAME.. Everyone knows who he is. Now that.. Is Power.. Beyond that of the President.. IMO





    I like you Nair I do. It feels good to have some intellectual conversations once in while... when I am ready for another one. Can I call on you??
    Thats basically what this arguement is about, the quoting say that steriods are 100% safe. These days, you can not say that, for a lot of different reasons, mainly because newbies will come across this thread and beleive that "steriods" can not damage your health, no matter what you do or take. I think you just needed to be more specific about what you were saying. But I do agree with you to an extent, steroids are not dangerous if used properly, but that goes with just about type of meds you take.

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    6 years straight

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    MuscleChemistry member nuknuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickdoo View Post
    6 years straight

    well then lets see some pics. You should be jacked right? pics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    Ok yes JP.. I agree.. I was referring mainly to TESTOSTERONE... and yes.. Orals for more than 6 weeks for most 8 weeks for some is MAX. To remain safe.. I guess I should have been more exact with my words... YEAR ROUND PERMANENT TEST IS 100% SAFE... Blasting to larger levels and adding in different oils = safe.. adding orals in and keeping them within a reasonable timeframe of use = safe.

    It is my opinion that ANY oral has done all it is going to after 6 weeks.. I haven't had much luck in gains after the 6 week time frame.

    So yes JP you are correct.

    I guess you filled in the blanks that I forgot to emphasize on.. but I guess I wasn't trying to defend orals more or less. OILS.. More or less.. and MAINLY Testosterone on the whole is what I was referring.

    Ok so... There is a Safe way and an Idiot wrong way.. someone doing an oral for longer than 10 weeks would be considered an idiot wrong way IMO.

    Then we got other kick ass orals like methyl-test and methyl tren that SHOULD STAY IN THE 3-4 Week range at maximum.. just so you don't pickle the hell out of your liver...

    Another one.. CHEQUE DROPS.. IMO.. The most powerful Oral steroid out there. But that's why most people save it for like a one time blast at a time for like a POWERLIFTING Meet.. or STRONGMAN Comp...

    But.. I personally think TEST is what CAN BE RUN AT ANY DOSE FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE (After the age of 24 years)


    There I think I covered it all.. LOL
    YEP coverd :-)

    just cuzz you know you never knwo the newbie that never did a cycle or only a few and is liek fuck it i got 1000 pills of dbol 50mg/tab ill just take 2 a day till there done lol.

    trust me people can be STUPID lol,


    i need me my sustaplex !! so i can go back to 1.5-2g ew :-) for 2 or so months then its spring time to change it up.:-P

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    First off, nuk, Im not in my 20's, my goals are different, I get mine from a doctor and it's hrt, thats why its been 6 years, but my amounts are not high like many others, 75 milligrams daily, along with T-3, I read some of the amounts used here and just can't understand why. I have cycled on off in my 20's. Then nothing for years. Then now in my 40's I will cycle till the end. I have the tortise approach. Slow steady gains, still making them. Ill posts my pics after this cutting cycle which will end here in 5/1/10. Furthermore in my 30 years doing this I see guys now from the 80's that where the big guys in the gym. Not one even looks like they ever lifted a weight in there life. Not one

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    MuscleChemistry Guru dorian123's Avatar
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    what about Lou Ferrigno? that guy still looks awesome

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    MuscleChemistry Guru dorian123's Avatar
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    yeah if your 60 years old and come off everything and quit lifting...or even 30 for that matter...
    the body no longer needs to carry all that extra weight-use it or loose it

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    MuscleChemistry Guru freakinthegym's Avatar
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    hell yeah!

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Yah obviously MICKDOO.. no matter how many years you use AAS at whatever dose you use to get however big you get... when YOU come off entirely.. and stop eating the same way.. and stop your gym activity... YES OF COURSE YOUR BODY RETURNS TO A HOMEOSTASIS POINT and you would look like that.. AAS don't keep you super huge for life.. if that was true.. we'd all do one or two cycles and QUIT because we would stay that size.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member The Dude's Avatar
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    I have to agree with The Duece on this of course. I simply have a B.S. in Biochem and a minor in toxicology. Dr's and even Endocrinologist's are not educated in the physiology of these circumstances as we are. They work on the basis of maintaining HOMEOSTASIS. Your best bet is to look at the AIDS guys....
    Yes you can do damage with enough of anything even drinking too much water.... there was a death related to that more recently than steroids. How many AIDS related deaths have been delayed for the forseeable future???
    Idiots will kill themselves with anything most of us who do big doses take precautions and know the risks. I get monthly checkups. I'm near 3g a week. A little dyazide and my BP is back to 122/72. Face it. We are the experts.
    The Dude Abides

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    OK well i'm finding out as of friday that i'm a pussy with this test suspension....100mg ed but i only have 22g 1.5 pins....both glutes, quads, and delts are killing me and my body and joints ache like i've got the flu......only 3.5 more weeks of this then i'm backing for 3-4 weeks off to just .75ml sustaplex and maybe 10-20mg methanoplex before i ramped it up again
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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    MuscleChemistry Vet Juced_porkchop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    OK well i'm finding out as of friday that i'm a pussy with this test suspension....100mg ed but i only have 22g 1.5 pins....both glutes, quads, and delts are killing me and my body and joints ache like i've got the flu......only 3.5 more weeks of this then i'm backing for 3-4 weeks off to just .75ml sustaplex and maybe 10-20mg methanoplex before i ramped it up again
    hahaha
    your scaring me i have a vile of testS from axio and iv been thinking if i should use it. i here good then i here bad . shoulda stuck with prop lol meh o wel w/e
    sustaplex is where its at! :-P
    Last edited by Juced_porkchop; 01-17-2010 at 10:05 PM.

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    MuscleChemistry Regitered Member The Deuce's Avatar
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    Gotta agree there.. CAN'T LIVE CORRECTLY WITHOUT MY SUSTAPLEX !!!

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=The Dude;476827]I have to agree with The Duece on this of course. I simply have a B.S. in Biochem and a minor in toxicology.QUOTE]

    Not quite true my friend. MOST MD canidates enter into med school with BSs in bio/molecular checmistry. Again, I think we're not giving the specialists the credit they deserve. Sure, your standard GP doesn't know a whole lot when it comes to these things, they work work idiots who need warts remvoed and bp meds to keep control the sides related to their obesity.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member NAIR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    No Hard feelings Nair.. You know I love ya and respect your opinion and such.. and it was 100% MY fault for not being straight forward with my answers... and yes hahaha.. in the end it did tend to sway towards the Socratic techniques.. haha..

    Like I said bro.. I am 28 years old. I don't have all the answers in the world. But to me.. knowledge is Power and.. hopefully in 5-10 years I am one powerful man.. Figuratively and Technically.

    Hey, look what Arnold did. He busted his ass. Became supremely famous and YOU SAY HIS NAME.. Everyone knows who he is. Now that.. Is Power.. Beyond that of the President.. IMO





    I like you Nair I do. It feels good to have some intellectual conversations once in while... when I am ready for another one. Can I call on you??

    Thank God I'm on your good side. I really don't want to cross a guy with a gun like the one you're flashing in that avatar. From now on, its "yes sir mr. Duece."

    And yes, lol, anytime hit me up!

  49. #49
    MuscleChemistry Guru dorian123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Deuce View Post
    Gotta agree there.. CAN'T LIVE CORRECTLY WITHOUT MY SUSTAPLEX !!!
    fuck yeah, sustaplex kicks ass-love it

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    [QUOTE=NAIR;476891]
    Quote Originally Posted by The Dude View Post
    I have to agree with The Duece on this of course. I simply have a B.S. in Biochem and a minor in toxicology.QUOTE]

    Not quite true my friend. MOST MD canidates enter into med school with BSs in bio/molecular checmistry. Again, I think we're not giving the specialists the credit they deserve. Sure, your standard GP doesn't know a whole lot when it comes to these things, they work work idiots who need warts remvoed and bp meds to keep control the sides related to their obesity.
    Not quite what I meant. Yes it is great to know how to balance a chemical equation, know drug interactions and know that steroids are synthetic derivitives of testosterone, BUT 99.9% don't even know that different steroids are approved for different uses. Call some Endo's on your insurance plan and ask them what anabolic steroid is approved for the treatment of Edema. Now ask an Endo what steroids are going to help you gain the most muscle with as few sides as possible. Ask for a stack or even if they know what steroids are syngergistic. BTW stanazolol is approved in this country for the treatment of Edema. Doctors don't know what we do, how we do it, or what we use. Look at how many prescribed Phen Fen, Vioxx, the list goes on. We are the test group that will never be published, b/c the govt doesn't see enough value and enjoy going after steroids more than crack. We don't shoot at them.
    I only come off when I get sick of the shots, but I'm also on HRT, but a much higher dose.
    The Dude Abides

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    [quote=The Dude;476934]
    Quote Originally Posted by NAIR View Post

    Not quite what I meant. Yes it is great to know how to balance a chemical equation, know drug interactions and know that steroids are synthetic derivitives of testosterone, BUT 99.9% don't even know that different steroids are approved for different uses. Call some Endo's on your insurance plan and ask them what anabolic steroid is approved for the treatment of Edema. Now ask an Endo what steroids are going to help you gain the most muscle with as few sides as possible. Ask for a stack or even if they know what steroids are syngergistic. BTW stanazolol is approved in this country for the treatment of Edema. Doctors don't know what we do, how we do it, or what we use. Look at how many prescribed Phen Fen, Vioxx, the list goes on. We are the test group that will never be published, b/c the govt doesn't see enough value and enjoy going after steroids more than crack. We don't shoot at them.
    I only come off when I get sick of the shots, but I'm also on HRT, but a much higher dose.
    that's why the boards are the experts......you just have to be patient enough to weed out the bullshit and know who and what to listen to......great points
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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    What I have seen though is people will lose the drive to train when they are not cycling. The cycle stops then they simply don't want to do anything. No cycle, no workout. In essence they quit. I just enjoy it. Obviously more with extra T. However I would still do it regardless. It keeps me focused.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juced_porkchop View Post
    hahaha
    your scaring me i have a vile of testS from axio and iv been thinking if i should use it. i here good then i here bad . shoulda stuck with prop lol meh o wel w/e
    sustaplex is where its at! :-P
    well my body is telling me it doesn't like suspension.....i've had the worst test flu and my night sweats and nightmares are 10x worse than when i was on tren....my whole body is aching like the flu, but i take ibuprofen and about an hour later i go from aching and freezing my ass off to my body feeling good but sweating like a pig....on a positive though it's some strong f'n shit....i lifted like a madman on mondays workout and am still debating about training the rest of the week....i haven't taken a shot today and will wait a couple days to let my inj sites heal a little and will use prop instead with a tab or two of dbol for the next 3-4 weeks before I jump on my next big adventure
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

  54. #54
    MuscleChemistry Registered Member Get_Swole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    well my body is telling me it doesn't like suspension.....i've had the worst test flu and my night sweats and nightmares are 10x worse than when i was on tren....my whole body is aching like the flu, but i take ibuprofen and about an hour later i go from aching and freezing my ass off to my body feeling good but sweating like a pig....on a positive though it's some strong f'n shit....i lifted like a madman on mondays workout and am still debating about training the rest of the week....i haven't taken a shot today and will wait a couple days to let my inj sites heal a little and will use prop instead with a tab or two of dbol for the next 3-4 weeks before I jump on my next big adventure
    fuck me that shit sounds like a nightmare in its self. I was debating on fuckin around with it next cycle but fuck that id rather stick to my regulars lol.
    All statements from Get_Swole are strictly fictional none of the statements should be taken seriously or literally.

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    MuscleChemistry Registered Member irish2003's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Get_Swole View Post
    fuck me that shit sounds like a nightmare in its self. I was debating on fuckin around with it next cycle but fuck that id rather stick to my regulars lol.
    I think I would have been OK had I been running some other test with it and that the suspension I would have kept at 50mg a day instead of 100mg/day....i think it's great as an add-on, but at this point I had finished my sustaplex and prop, stopped the anadrol, and was kinda tapering down......i just didn't see the point in sticking myself twice a day for just a quarter of a cc, so i did a half a cc two times a day instead.....lesson learned though......also i could have cut the suspension like was recommended by several, but i'm hard headed......
    "Because only plants grow naturally"

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