serious vets help me out here please

[superted]

Link to my progress pictures in signature

Looking for advice from truly seasoned guys and I mean no offence to anyone but please only if you have first hand knowledge

Ok so u read my log, im the dude who quit drinking and added 45lb LBM in 18 months

I've had the advice and help of some major body builders and I've run into a crossroads where I'm getting 2 completely different opinions on the next step and I trust both guys implicitly and both are monsters with results to back up their hypothesis

Here is my conundrum

My cycle grew out of all proportion as I'm genetically lucky and exp zero sides from anything so under.close doctor supervision I pressed and pressed as both advised. Well everything has worked out beyond any expectations I ever had and I want to step it up to the next level

My cycle is winding down and will have been 6 months, my original plan was to cruise on Watson Cyp until blood and all values returned to.normal

Opinion A UK pro new school of thinking

He says my cycle has been so long and suppressive that unless I reset my receptors by coming off I will only yield 10% of my genetic potential going forward. He has put together an aggressive PCT and GH slin peptide cruise for my time off

Opinion B old school guy going for his pro card this year

Similar set up with GH and peptide but with 300mg cyp

He does not believe that my gains going forward would be.limited as guy A suggests

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS?

I have a.wicked cycle planned for the.next round of which they both approve

 

[jtunderdog]

Its really about your goals and your health bro. How has your bp been through this whole thing. Several guys I know have had some issues with high bp causing heart problems. I would personally say you need to come off a while. The 300 sounds like self decided hrt doses and its your choice don't get me wrong, but 6 months is a long cycle. There are guys on here who don't come completely off either and they may have different opinions, but I say get your values and make a decision from there. If you aren't planning on going pro or something I don't think its so much of a necessity to cruise at 300. You are also going to notice some psychological issues like possibly depression when you come off after that long. Just be prepared. You have been on 6 months and your body is going to do some odd things coming off. My two cents bro.

 

[Shaptown]

Jesus christ bro...

Option A without a doubt in my mind. You have been on for 6 months!!!! Do you want to have to be on TRT for life? If you somehow hope to want to be able to say no to this question, then you need to get off ASAP and stay the fuck off for a VERY long time and let your body recover back to base androgen levels. You have saturated your receptors for a very long time. I don't know how old you are, but the older we get the less likely it is that we fully recover. You seem like a young enough fellow; I highly doubt the sentiment that you will never be able to reach your genetic potential again. In fact, I guarantee you that if you get off now and utilize every option available to you, not only will you recover completely, but you will do so quite quickly in my opinion.

I have a feeling that you didn't utilize HCG during the duration of your cycle to prevent testicular atrophy and keep those leydig cells pumping and producing at least SOME endogenous amount of test. Did you? Next time, you really need to be more prepared to cycle. If you did, ignore this previous comment....

Anyway, I am a firm believer in using HCG DURING the cycle to prevent atrophy as opposed to using it in monstrous dosages afterwards to get everything kickstarted again. The best analogy I have heard regarding this issue is mowing your grass. It is much easier to simply mow the lawn once a week to keep everything looking nice and under control. It is much more difficult, to let your lawn grow completely out of control then attempt to make it look halfway decent; wouldn't you agree?

Get off ASAP, and utilize lots of SERMS; I would stay away from Nolva, as it inhibits IGF-1 levels and it would therefore be very difficult to maintain gains with it. Use 50mg of Clomid and 40-60mg of Toremifene Citrate every day for about 8 weeks. Yes this is longer than your normal PCT protocol, but your cycle was much longer than the normal cycle.

Also, if I were you, I would seriously consider utilizing some SARMs. I can refer you in the right direction. They are somewhat expensive, but the use of both would really get your natural production flowing in NO TIME! Thirdly, and this one is VERY important, but then again so are all four recommendations I will make for you, utilize 50mg of Proviron ED. Since this is a good androgen, but weak anabolic, you will recover your libido quite well with this. It is also quite effective even if you for some god forsaken reason decide to bridge. I actually stay on Proviron pretty much all the time. It is truly an amazing compound, and if you have never tried it, you are gonna like it, I guarantee that (Men's Warehouse commercial comes to mind...lol). It also binds with SHBG, which effectively increases the amount of free test you have. This will be VERY important in your case, since we don't want the low amount of test you do have in your blood to be essentially inactivated (really it's actually preventing binding to the AR and exerting an anabolic effect, but the same for our intensive purposes), by binding to SHBG.

Lastly, for the entire duration that you utilize these compounds, I would run a dose of approximately 6.25mg of Aromasin. This will prevent your test from aromatizing. It is also very "lenient" on your estrogen as well, and will not drop it to dangerously low levels (like letrozole will) that will essentially further inhibit your recovery. Aromasin is the ideal choice here, because it will not detrimentally effect your lipid profile.

I consider myself a VERY experienced individual, and I am without a doubt more versed in the biochemical side of AAS then just about everyone on the internet. I really do hope you will consider my advice, and hopefully use it.

In summation, I would recommend running:

Weeks 1-8: 50mg Clomiphene ED
Weeks 1-8: 40-60mg Toremifene ED
Weeks 1-8: 50mg SARMs S4 ED
Weeks 1-8: 50mg Proviron ED
Weeks 1-8: 6.25mg Aromasin ED

Some would recommend you throw in some HCG at 2500-3000 IU every 5 days or so but I strongly recommend against it. At this point getting your endogenous production flowing is our primary goal, and all HCG is going to do for you is cause a slight production of testosterone at the expense of causing negative feedback to your Hypothalamic Pituitary Gonadal Axis.

Best of luck!

 

[Zeus]

I agree with both of these guys. PCT is a must to get your natural hormones back to normal. Staying on is not beneficial at all. All your gonna do is fck yourself up. Get yourself some clomid, nolvadex, or torem. Or combine two of the three for a sure thing. I personaly like HCG during PCT, but some may not agree.

 

[MMX2]

Option A.
I realize that you have made some great gains and you should be proud of that- but you really need to let your body normalize. This is very important as you get older(trust me on this). You have some very good advice so far and I would consider it when making your decision.
I don't know what your aspirations are but unless you are definitely looking at national competition, pro aspirations, you need to come off to avoid any future potential issues. The rule of thumb is to come off as long as your cycle. That would be 6 months. There is NO reason that you should not continue to grow without AS in that time period- with a consistent workout and diet regimen.

 

[superted]

Thx for the response guys

I'm typing on iPhone but just wanted to thank-you

Yes I did utize HCG entire cycle and have no sack problems 300 iu's 2 x EW with a 1500 iu shot every 60 days to wake lydig cells

Also I ran proviron @ 50mg ED entire cycle

I am 43 and I am on doctor prescribed doses test cyp independent of this cycle and yes I would like to compete at some level, I have had 2 blood tests so far on this cycle

If I go with option A PCT will be agressive and would include proviron @ 140mg ED

I'll post actual PCT plan when get back to my computer for your review, it also includes HGH slin igf and various other peptide

 

[MMX2]

Thx for the response guys

I'm typing on iPhone but just wanted to thank-you

Yes I did utize HCG entire cycle and have no sack problems 300 iu's 2 x EW with a 1500 iu shot every 60 days to wake lydig cells

Also I ran proviron @ 50mg ED entire cycle

I am 43 and I am on doctor prescribed doses test cyp independent of this cycle and yes I would like to compete at some level, I have had 2 blood tests so far on this cycle

If I go with option A PCT will be agressive and would include proviron @ 140mg ED

I'll post actual PCT plan when get back to my computer for your review, it also includes HGH slin igf and various other peptide

I am 44 so I understand. I am on HRT test as well. I think you have a good plan. I get blood tests done every six months- how have the results been- if you would like to share them?

 

[superted]

I am 44 so I understand. I am on HRT test as well. I think you have a good plan. I get blood tests done every six months- how have the results been- if you would like to share them?

Yes

Blood has been fine so far, ill be having another shortly will gladly post

One of my major concerns in option A is my original reason for being on TRT in the first place. I had lost all libido and my marriage was suffering as a result to the point of almost no return so TRT saved my marriage and has also resulted on a general overall well being.
I am fortunate in that I have good insurance and blood work and doctor check ups are regula

Oh and no problems with BP either to the bro that asked, sorry still using damn phone but wanted to respond as you have all be so kind to go out of your way to give such detailed answers

Thank-you once again really appreciate your advice on this

 

[jtunderdog]

Good advice all the way around. I know its hard to come off. I understand trust me. I am on lexapro and it has slowed my libido some as well. Congrats on your results bro. Im glad you are dedicated. Most guys over 30 look 8 months pregnant these days, I am bent on not being one of those guys as well.

 

[superted]

My 18 month progress

 

[big lifter]

if your on TRT mate you dont want to come off gear completely.. im sure you know this, people who are telling you to either didnt read that you require HRT or they just dont understand what a blast and cruise is designed for..
guys if a person is put on TRT from his doctor it means his natural test is too low, now picture how low it would be after a cycle.. he wouldnt grow naturally at all without some sort of gear, let alone still be able to grow in his 6 months off, it cant happen. you need a minimal amount of test in your body to sustain the muscle mass that you had built. without it you will lose a HUGE portion of your gains, no question.
what the guys on here are advising is good infomation to the average user, but it doesnt take into account the factors that you have.

cruise on a low dose of test mate, your pro mates will help you with everything you need regarding the length of the cruise period and what other drugs you will need aswell, for guys with HRT cruising is the only way to come 'off' while holding onto gains. the whole idea of blasting and cruising is that you are on for your 'blast cycle' and then your off is your 'cruise cycle' the cruise cycle will bring the levels down in your body enough to bring things back on track with everything that you'd be worried about enough to come off for starters, trust me ifyou came off completely your body would be worse off than if you stayed on your current dose. rock bottem test levels are hell, and you said that you needed HRT to fix your libido problems and wellbeing, can you imagine 6 months of no sex drive, feeling like shit, losing all of your gains because of the lack of test in your body, just to get back on and do all that work again 6 months down the track? ..talk about depression.

i know what id be doing.

oh and shaptown do your thing.. 'i disagree wholeheartedly with everything big lifter just said........etc'

 

[Shaptown]

if your on TRT mate you dont want to come off gear completely.. im sure you know this, people who are telling you to either didnt read that you require HRT or they just dont understand what a blast and cruise is designed for..
guys if a person is put on TRT from his doctor it means his natural test is too low, now picture how low it would be after a cycle.. he wouldnt grow naturally at all without some sort of gear, let alone still be able to grow in his 6 months off, it cant happen. you need a minimal amount of test in your body to sustain the muscle mass that you had built. without it you will lose a HUGE portion of your gains, no question.
what the guys on here are advising is good infomation to the average user, but it doesnt take into account the factors that you have.

cruise on a low dose of test mate, your pro mates will help you with everything you need regarding the length of the cruise period and what other drugs you will need aswell, for guys with HRT cruising is the only way to come 'off' while holding onto gains. the whole idea of blasting and cruising is that you are on for your 'blast cycle' and then your off is your 'cruise cycle' the cruise cycle will bring the levels down in your body enough to bring things back on track with everything that you'd be worried about enough to come off for starters, trust me ifyou came off completely your body would be worse off than if you stayed on your current dose. rock bottem test levels are hell, and you said that you needed HRT to fix your libido problems and wellbeing, can you imagine 6 months of no sex drive, feeling like shit, losing all of your gains because of the lack of test in your body, just to get back on and do all that work again 6 months down the track? ..talk about depression.

i know what id be doing.

oh and shaptown do your thing.. 'i disagree wholeheartedly with everything big lifter just said........etc'

jesus bro grow up!

OP did not initially state he was on TRT. I still am a firm supporter of option A. If he ran the proper peptide protocol while he was off, he would still be able to gain.

 

[superted]

PCT 3 - 4 months

Decided to keep it relatively simple and we thought GHRP 6 and MGF PEG would be overkill

HG SLIN IGF1 Recovery Cruise
Test 200mg EW Watson Pharma
Proviron 100mg ED pre bed

GOALS
maintain mass on igf/slin/HG between cycle also help repair left shoulder now 90% normal, bring up lagging body parts (arms)

HGH
7 days a week
as Im on a pct recovery maintenance log, use 4ius gh ED before go to bed, and 6 ius on days I train back, chest and legs. do all shots intra muscular into the damaged shoulder.

IGF1
Igf bilateral 60 mcg 30 mins IM pre WO days bis tris shoulders
my lagging body parts. IGF just on ches/tri day and back/bi day with one extra session a week of bis/tris lagging body part
60mcg on training days , 30mcg on each side, same other. can use same spots just go up and down the muscle

SLIN
Eat half of breakfast Pre WO meal, shoot 5ius then consume 50g dextrose/glucos and creatine glutamine, protein shake. then resume, it peaks in 10 mins so u want carbs in seconds after shot, do not wait then shoot 5ius post training with protein, aminos, creatine and obviously 50g fast sugar.dextrose glucose.

Pre Wo total 90c Post WO 110c both to contain at least 50g fast acting carbs

Will be using Humalog rapid acting insulin

Training
new split, body will then grow to adapt to new stress, reason iv grown off
chest,tris
back,
rest
legs
shoulders, biceps.
rest
rest

increase volume on sets but dont go to failure, this ensures a full muscle and not too taxing on cns ill need extra rest day to combat fact i cant synthesise protein as rapidly off so ill need extra day, cortisol is more rampant off so combat by adding rest day.

Cardio 3 x 40 min steady state EW will try to do AM fasted when possible