Another first timer looking for some help.

Howdy, first timer looking for some info.
I've been reading for a while now, lots of different idea's out there. I think I've pretty much decided what I'm going to go with, just need a few questions answered first.
I'm 35 years old, been training on and off for about 15 years, mainly just staying in shape with the odd building stage thrown in(ex pro beach volleyballer), never really managed to put any real muscle on. To give you an idea of my build, 6'4, currently 190 pounds but about 18%bf (just finished a weight gain cycle) Normally about 14%. Best results in the last 10 years was just under 200lb, and 10% but with my height it was still not really noticeable and that was every legal supplement under the sun plus 6 months of hell in the gym.
I've found a trusted supplier downunder who has asked me what I want.
I'm looking to go with Test and Deca for a 8-10 week cycle.
Some of the questions I have.
What qty's will I need?
Do I get it all at once?
What's a good price?
Do I need to purchase the support products as well or are they available legally? eg Liver, estrogen blockers etc.
Has anyone put a road map together of timing, when to take what.
Sorry about the basic questions, you probably get sick of them but I really want to do this right.
Cheers
Lawd

hey lawd,

When you first start using gear, your body is like wide open. Meaning that you can use much less and get major gains from it. So its always advised to start small, then take more gear later.

There are several types of test. Some start right away, some start a month later, some have a mixure of diffrent types of test. So first off, before we make a plan- you need to specify with type your supplier has.

For now, we will assume you have test E. Its very common, and cheap. I would suggest-given your size and age to start in the 500mg range. For the Deca, start at 300mgs. Split them up in half, and apply them 2x per week. If it is test E, or C, It will take about 2 weeks before you start to feel anything. I would save any modifications to these compounds till you reach your 8th week. By then, you'll know fully how your body is reacting.

MC's sell wonderful items for anti-e/ bloating. Its legal to purchase them here, i doubt you'll find them cheaper. You should start a light dose of nolvadex after a month, if your nipples get sensitive, add more. Save the majority for after your cycle. Take more after (we can get into that later).

Most people think that your cycle is the most important part. Its really after your cycle. Post cycle training (pct). You need to keep the gains you've made. So i suggest also purchasing clomid 50-100mgs per day for one month to get your body back into producing testosterone. You also might want to consider Immense growth factor, That will not only bring back bodies natural testosterone, but also give you more quality gains during this period. I use Immense growth factor as a bridge, in between cycles- so im always growing.

couldnt have said it better myself, and welcome lawd, also next time try posting this in the "Musclechemistry" forum

I am in the same boat as Lawd.

Will MC's anti -E take place of Novadex?

yes

Hi all, Thanks for the information, just what I was after.

I just heard today that my supplier has let me down. I have about 4 weeks up my sleeve before I was looking at starting my first cycle. I will continue to gather information while I locate another supplier.

Thanks again. Looking forward to joining the 200lb + club (without the gut!)
Cheers
Lawd

TheLawd said:

Hi all, Thanks for the information, just what I was after.

I just heard today that my supplier has let me down. I have about 4 weeks up my sleeve before I was looking at starting my first cycle. I will continue to gather information while I locate another supplier.

Thanks again. Looking forward to joining the 200lb + club (without the gut!)
Cheers
Lawd

Click to expand...

ok, consider your 'supplier letdown" as fortunate. I believe your diet is not down right. What does you diet look like?

Since you have some time before you can locate another source (or your current one comes through), take the time to read and learn on here about how to maximize your diet so you can maximize your gains.

and dont be so sure your diet is up to par, even the best of us could use some diet tweaks.
You sound like the "skinny, fat guy" type and some of us on here were in the same boat (including me). now Im a fat, fat guy

Definatley, cant grow without food bro from down low...

First time around when I got serious I think food was an issue, I hated the gut that came along with it. Your pretty much right, skinny fat guy.
My last growth attempt I up'd by cal intake to about 3500 a day. Quick breakdown.
morning, 130gms carbs, oatmeal. 40gms protein shake (top quality)
mid morn, apple, protein bar, 40p, 40c 5f
Lunch Tuna/rice 45p,120c,10f
mid afternoon shake, 40p,60c plus 10-15 armonds
Creatine + Beta-Alanine - workout
afterwork out shake creatine 40p,70c plus apple
Dinner 35p, 40c 10f
Shake before bed 40p, no carbs 10-15 armonds

Also taking, Multi, calcium and magnes, fish oil, herbal test booster, liver sup, HMB
I eat pretty clean, mainly chicken and steak for meals, carbs with meals were pretty much brown rice, sometimes wholemeal pasta.
L-glut with every shake, creatine before and after every workout.

3 months of this gained about 8 lbs, but bf went up from 16 to 19%.

So about 3 lb of muscle, about 1lb a month....

i understand, I used to have a hell of a time growing. When I started using gear, most would say I was underdeveloped to be taking the plunge. But my training was good (I though, it was very intense) and my diet was great, I was obsessive about it. But still wasnt seeing that size. a quality 200lbs was impossible. I chalked it up to genetics.

have you tried DC training? its not for everyone but seems to work well for "hardgainers". Not exactly sure what the exact definition of a hardgainer is, it varies. But I think guys like us definitely fall into the category.
I mean, you got the endomorphic types who are fatter/bulkier, then the ectomorphic that are skinner/leaner...and then the guys who got the shit end of both. I gain fat easier but dont put on muscle easy.

DC training changed alot of that.

I definately fall into the hardgainer catagory.
Like everyone I've tried a number of different workouts, I base my workouts around the POF system mainly, with a few variations.
Basically, warm up sets, then heavy weights low rep covering Stretch,mid range and contracted.
From reading Big A's post for beginners, one of the problems I may have is over training, I normally train 4-5 days a week, maybe arms twice in a week but normally no double ups. I've now cut this down to 3 days a week although at the moment I am trying to loose some BF as I think I am too high to start a growth stage at the moment.
My cardio is noramlly very low intensity, around the 110 bpm when trying to put on weight.
I think I am on the right track, probably a few tweaks to diet during growth (maybe add a couple of whole chickens might do the job)
Hopefully my first cycle in about 4-6 weeks once, I was going to get the biggest personally trainer at the gym to work with me over my first cycle as well to make sure I am working at my peak.
How's your stats these days Dreww?

TheLawd said:

I definately fall into the hardgainer catagory.
Like everyone I've tried a number of different workouts, I base my workouts around the POF system mainly, with a few variations.
Basically, warm up sets, then heavy weights low rep covering Stretch,mid range and contracted.
From reading Big A's post for beginners, one of the problems I may have is over training, I normally train 4-5 days a week, maybe arms twice in a week but normally no double ups. I've now cut this down to 3 days a week although at the moment I am trying to loose some BF as I think I am too high to start a growth stage at the moment.
My cardio is noramlly very low intensity, around the 110 bpm when trying to put on weight.
I think I am on the right track, probably a few tweaks to diet during growth (maybe add a couple of whole chickens might do the job)
Hopefully my first cycle in about 4-6 weeks once, I was going to get the biggest personally trainer at the gym to work with me over my first cycle as well to make sure I am working at my peak.
How's your stats these days Dreww?

Click to expand...

yes, going to 3 days a week is great. I never broke 200lbs until I did this myself. You're on the right track.
I used Big A's program and it was pretty good. Better than most "programs" out there by far. Make no mistake about it, he know his stuff. But the DC program worked alot better, even though the theory behind both is pretty similar.

some might debate this, but I drop cardio completely when bulking/maintaining. I do this to keep my metabolism as slow as possible. When guys like us eat 4,000+calories a day, we put on some weight, but soon after our already fast metabolism skyrockets even higher to counteract it. Gotta love the human body and its ability to adapt to almost anything.

Also on diet, try to incorporate lean meats, but not chicken and fish. Jay cutler grows off that, but guys like us dont. I eat alot of leaner cuts of turkey, ground beef, steaks. I avoid shakes if at all possible. I have maybe one a day and its the grossest meal of the day.
My stats are about 6'1" and 220lbs. Ive been as high as a fat 230lbs. Im "naturally" about 160lbs-170lbs and pretty lean (always had abs).

Hi Guys, I've just been offered the option of HGH, a lot more $$. Is this an option for me to acheive my goal if I cant locate another supplier?

i prefer igf over hgh any day bro especialy the price difference is rediculous

Hi All,
I've found another supplier finally
I'm looking at starting my first cycle, Stanazol liquid, (this is Winny right?)
Also adding Test along the way.
I'm looking at starting in about 3 weeks, main reason for time frame is to get my current 17% down to about 12-14%.
I'm going in for a blood test later this week to get a baseline to work from.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Also, thanks Presser for info on igf.

TheLawd said:

Hi All,
I've found another supplier finally
I'm looking at starting my first cycle, Stanazol liquid, (this is Winny right?)
Also adding Test along the way.
I'm looking at starting in about 3 weeks, main reason for time frame is to get my current 17% down to about 12-14%.
I'm going in for a blood test later this week to get a baseline to work from.
Any comments would be appreciated.
Also, thanks Presser for info on igf.

Click to expand...

It sounds like you aren't gonna listen to any of us anyways....but here's worth a shot.
Let me be the first to say that winny alone doesnt do much of dick, especially if you are like me and you sound like you genetically are kinda similar to myself.

Dont waste your time gearing unless you can get the base compound - test. IMO everything else is worthless without it, its simply icing on the cake. The test is the cake.

Sorry, didnt mean it to sound like that, but up until now I have a real problem finding a supplier. The guy I have now is about to start Winny with some test down the track as he is already a good size but by the sound of it's not going to work for me.
He has pretty much said he can get what I want, but i know he has two much winny so I thought I would do the same.
The question is. Do I go back to the original deca with Test? Or go for Test from the beginning and winny?

TheLawd said:

Sorry, didnt mean it to sound like that, but up until now I have a real problem finding a supplier. The guy I have now is about to start Winny with some test down the track as he is already a good size but by the sound of it's not going to work for me.
He has pretty much said he can get what I want, but i know he has two much winny so I thought I would do the same.
The question is. Do I go back to the original deca with Test? Or go for Test from the beginning and winny?

Click to expand...

all you need for a first cycle is test. Doesnt matter whether you are bulking or dieting down....test is all you need. As a plus its usually cheapest and easiest to find as well.
If you cant grow off of that, then its your diet or training and no amount of gear will make you grow until that is fixed.

and by the way, a supplier will always want to sell you what he has a shitload of, or whatever is pricey on his list. Dont confuse a supplier as anymore than a common drug dealer, most of them are simply that. And about as honest as one.

Cheers Drew, I've changed my order, all good. Thanks again for the info.
Also, as I'm a classic skinny fat guy, I was thinking it might be interesting to document my progress. I was going to do 3 short video's a week plus photo's starting from a week before to a few weeks after. I'll let you know how it all goes.
Thanks again.
Lawd

i moved this thread to proper forum, next time please post it in proper forum