As previously stated it is my first cycle so I have a lot of questions. I am currently 21yr/o, 5'10, 182lbs and have been working out for 6+ years. i am going to run dbol and winny for a 6-8 week cycle. I was also given Estrofuse but am pretty confused as to its use, is it on cycle support or pct? I want to run nolva for pct but was told the estrofuse would work the same which I'm skeptical about. I'm also going to be taking protein, creatine, amino acids, milk thistle, fish oil, Hawthorne berry, and daily multivitamin. However should I also take NAC, liv 52, or HCG? I've been doing my research but still feel somewhat clueless and worry that I'm getting bad advice so I would appreciate any insight. Thank you.
FIRST CYCLE NEED HELP PLANNING IT OUT AND MAKING SURE I HAVE EVERYTHING I NEED TO RUN IT CORRECTLY
- Thread starter jdavis23
- Start date
I was told to run it as follows:
Week 1: dbol 50mg/day (25mg in the morning/25mg at night)
Week 2-7: dbol and winny @ 50mg/day split evenly as before
Week 8: winny 50mg/day split evenly
at some point after or during week 2 begin to Estrofuse as on cycle and continue to run it after the 8 weeks as a pct
- - - Updated - - -
It seems to be bad/incorrect to me especially the estrofuse so I wanted help or insight
Week 1: dbol 50mg/day (25mg in the morning/25mg at night)
Week 2-7: dbol and winny @ 50mg/day split evenly as before
Week 8: winny 50mg/day split evenly
at some point after or during week 2 begin to Estrofuse as on cycle and continue to run it after the 8 weeks as a pct
- - - Updated - - -
It seems to be bad/incorrect to me especially the estrofuse so I wanted help or insight
monster-ish
New member
If you're going to shut your hpta down you might as well run a proper cycle. With that said this is what I would recommend:
Test e- 500mg/week for 12-16 wks
Dbol- 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks.
For pct you want to do it properly. Run both nolva and clomid for 4 weeks.
I would also recommend you run hcg throughout cycle at 500iu/week
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Test e- 500mg/week for 12-16 wks
Dbol- 50mg/day for 4-6 weeks.
For pct you want to do it properly. Run both nolva and clomid for 4 weeks.
I would also recommend you run hcg throughout cycle at 500iu/week
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IronJulius
New member
Dbol and winny have no reason to be ran together and never run a cycle without testosterone
noworries301
New member
So far VERY good advice here. Not good advice received from whomever said to run ANY cycle without testosterone. It's the hormone that makes us men. Put your prior "advice" where it belongs which is for someone who does not understand the body. 2 orals one a bloater and one a cutter with no Test? Really?
It's not a reflection on you at all but that was bad advice. In my opinion a first cycle should always be Test only and 8-12 weeks to see how your body reacts to each compound. You are 21 you have all the time in the world to stack...
Did I mention your original advice wasn't good??
Have a great weekend
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It's not a reflection on you at all but that was bad advice. In my opinion a first cycle should always be Test only and 8-12 weeks to see how your body reacts to each compound. You are 21 you have all the time in the world to stack...
Did I mention your original advice wasn't good??
Have a great weekend
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Muscle mechanic
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Brother orals are harsh on liver.
Not injectables and not testosterone not injectable anyway!
Your person who told u, doesn't know what they saying at all.
Or u misunderstanding!
Injectable can be ran longer no liver issues.
Orals or used as kick start, or finisher, add ons, or plateau breakers.
They are used for minimal time because orals are bad on liver!!!
As mentioned u have to have testosterone into any cycle period!
Why, because all steroids are derivatives of testosterone and our body recognizes them as testosterone BUT their modifications makes them behave much different than testosterone.
Our body does this, it senses dbol, winni or whatever and body says TURN OFF THE DAM WATER WE HAVE WAY TOO MUCH IN HERE!!! So body stops producing testosterone!!! Winni and dbol have their uses but out body NEEDS TESTOSTERONE for sex health drive mental health lots of things.
Estrogen is a steroid hormone and if u give yourself that with something like gnrh u eill block or stop testosterone thru neg feedback and became a woman eventually!!! Yes brother sex changes happen tampering with hormones wrong way adding one or two with the native dominate one.
Tits gyno bumps mumps moobs can grow and your pecker can turn into a clit and in the case if woman her clit into a long skinny pecker!
Sounds like your buddy got some pills and is passing them off as roids or will have some gyno men with ace bandage wrapped to stop the moobs from bouncing chasing around town!!!
Estro fuse throw that away!!!
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Iron Game
Veteran
Welcome to MuscleChemistry. I'm not big on recommending anyone to start a cycle under 23 or so. The reason I say 23+ is you should enjoy and take advantage of your natural test at its peak for a while.
That being said testosterone an AI and HCG should the most any first cycle should consist of. The supplements you listed are fine to use in conjunction.
That being said testosterone an AI and HCG should the most any first cycle should consist of. The supplements you listed are fine to use in conjunction.
Muscle mechanic
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
My post has a few typos they can be made out but important one without the native hormone.
That's right we need testosterone as men estro in women
But s step further for kicks
Woman or give testosterone as hormone replacement in proper doses of course. But testosterone converts to estro so bingo it's works for a woman and stops osteoporosis among other things.
But estro in men doesn't convert testosterone
And on your winni and dbol
Little school here just for ya!!!
Dbol converts to alot of estro at very high rate
Winni can cause gyno in many it has nature that can activate progesterone receptors similar to the non-aromatasing anadrol!!!
Testosterone can convert to estro but also equally as androgenic meaning dht
Dht is out natural way to get free testosterone sex drive and fight estro by lowering shbg and also binding to estro receptors beating any aromatase to the punch.
More shbg more estro because test can't bind where it should.
U need testosterone for dht as well!!!
If u want a cycle do the 500 mg of testosterone for 12-14 weeks
Another lesson out body NEEDS to hold on to any new tissue for at least 90 days to recognize it or else antigens will not get used to it and destroy it as foreign and not part of use!!!
I know your buddy's outlook a dumb one but he means this dbol will bloat and stacking with winni will off set it.
That isn't way to go about it st all.
Masterone and proviron are used for that to offset!
Winni is only used in cutting phase and doesn't make u ripped like many think.
It actually doesn't help with fat lose at all!!! That is an old hoax they even have stretched it to say it makes u V shaped
That s us what name Wintrol V means
Lmao!!!
Sorry not bashing u but u gotta listen to those who know, we have many here who have played trail and error and used like myself before internet said what was best.
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Muscle mechanic
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Welcome to MC brother I help anyone I can!
I rattled off but had to convince u that your buddy will have u in trouble
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I rattled off but had to convince u that your buddy will have u in trouble
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Iron Game
Veteran
Rattle away brutha!!
Iron Game
Veteran
I just noticed the part you said about the Estro Fuse.
I went and checked it out. Junk!
Try some Anti Estrogen from MCAS.
musclechemistry.com
guardianactual
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Just take 400-600mg of test-c for 10-14 weeks. Keep it simple.
EDIT: If it helps, my next blast will be 400mg test for 10 weeks and 40mg tbol for 6-8 weeks as a kickstart. And yes, I will grow and add on tons of strength
Never used Tbol, my friend swears by it. 40mg strong? I thought it was one of those 100mg style aas. I have seen people do 50 tbol with 50 anavar I personally don't see a reason to do that with orals... stack the c17 aas why not just use one haha.
Huge fan of test. Man, how is Tbol to you? Like do you use it for a lean bulker?
guardianactual
MuscleChemistry Registered Member
Welcome to MC. Yeah, it is best to get some forum opinions as well as do some extra research like, looking at steroid profiles.
Given what these two drugs do... you would be betger suited for picking one ir the other. And running test. Preferably longer estered since you are new and not used to injections.
Honestly, the best cycle to start is Test E or Test C.
2ml a week split Monday and Thursday at 1ml each. A ml or test e or cyp is normally about 200-250mg. So 400-500mg a week shot in equal doses.
Run an AI arimidex works well, Anti-E same concept. Run 0.5mg twice a week. I do mine with my shots. It'll take four weeks to really feel the test, but it is well worth the wait. The pumps are insane love test.
Test 400-500mg a week
Anti-E 0.5mg twice a week
Nolva bloat before bed at 10mg if you want, it is great for keeping water retention low
Pct up to you. I don't like giving tips on pct haha but I personally use clomid for pct.
You can still use dbol for 4-6 weeks to kick start your test, but it isn't needed. I would save it for cycle #2.
IronHound
New member
Yeah so I've run it I think 3 times. And what I have found is that it is FANTASTIC for strength, and doesn't bloat you, and the gains come in lean and seem to be easily kept afterwards.
Dosage wise, I think probably 30-60mg / day depending on preference is ideal. The cool thing about tbol is if you get the sweetspot figured out you can have great gains with almost no side effects at all.
Also TBol kinda gives you that "alpha" feeling when you are on which I am fond of.
It's not the strongest bulker in terms of pure size (probably goes to sdrol), but I'd put it up as #1 oral for gains:sides ratio.
Last edited:
Thank you very much to everyone that replied it definitely helped give me some more perspective on the situation. I definitely was getting fucked over for some $$$ by my friend so I'm just gonna sell off what I bought to break even and put a real cycle together for sometime in the future based off of all of the advice given in the forum(definitely less harsh and test based). Until then I'm just gonna keep training and try to break my current plateau, thank you again.
gveytia1
New member
Bro if you want a little "boost" or edge to help gains, you can try ostarine/mk-2866 @ 25mg a day. It works great and is available through a sponser of the board and is high quality and cost effective. Good luck to you bro!
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