on-going argument about how to get OFF properly...what do YOU think??

hello,

this is the question:
how do you run your AS's towards the end of your cycle for optimum recovery??

some say you can and should run a short acting AS like fina or prop right up till you start clomid.. while others say to cut out as much of your androgens weeks before and possible end with something like eq (if that was in your cycle) or even just cut out everything but your test (ethan,cyp) and just start clomid 2-3 weeks after last shot.

i like the tappering because im assuming its easier for your body to recover from something like 250-500mg test as it tappers itself during the 2 week wait to start the clomid rather then just dropping something as harsh as fina and starting clomid 2-3 days later..

which is the best way for gains keeping and recovery?? and
possibly the LOGIC behind it??

thanks for settling this
cya
UWANAFIGHT2

I start my clomid therapy about two half lives after my last dose of whatever I'm taking. so if I'm taking some test E with a half life around 7-10 days I start clomid two weeks after my last shot. You could even start it one half life after your shot.

I also run my clomid for at least 4 weeks instead of the common 2,3 week method. This is what works best for me. But I get shut down HARD on my cycles cuz I generally mega dose for long periods and use high androgens.

There is no exact right answer to how to recover best. ALot of poeple will have different answers for you which I'd like to hear, but it depends on what substances you took and how long and how shut down you are.

but for a general rule of thumb I run clomid 4 weeks after 2 half lives of the last AS I take, but this is not what everyone else does, just what I do....

Anyone else?,,,bigjosh

oh and I never taper off, I run the same doseage throughout my cycles, but sometimes frontload, but in the end I don't lower my doseages. I figure if I'm taking 2g test /wk that lowering my dose to 500mg lets say prolly just slows things down. I'd rather run the 2g then start clomid two half lives after last shot and run it for a LONG time.

You can also look into taking things like arimidex, letrozole, and aromasin, and hcg to bring you back up to speed. HCG is best used when staying on though and wanted to jump start yourself w/out really comming off though.

One more thing, in addition to the clomid I take I run letrozole for 2-5 weeks post cycle and during my whole cycle. This aids in blocking estrogen during and after cycle while helping raise my test levels post cycle and raising igf-1 production...

Also things like anavar, clen, insulin, creatine, glutamine, high protein diet, aminos etc, are good for post cycle to aid in muscle catabolism.

I have never tapered so I can not comment on its effectiveness, I run the clomid for 3 weeks and also run 5000iu of HCG for 3 injections each 5 days apart prior to clomid............The HCG starts @ 2weeks after the last Test E or EQ injection........

I corrected it...Thanks for the catch CE!

Currently im on 300mg cyp and 400mg eq and have been for 20 weeks and have added tren suspension 50mg ed for the last week or so and will continue for another 2 weeks..

i plan on then continuing the cycle for about 3 more weeks then take my last shot and wait about 14 days and then start clomid?? what do you think?

i also have about 30 proviron tabs .. should i throw them in now to control the bloat in my face or wiat to use them in my post therapy? and if so how do i use the proviron post cycle?

thanks
cya
UWANAFIGHT2

uwanafight2 said:

Currently im on 300mg cyp and 400mg eq and have been for 20 weeks...

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Bro, it doesn't matter what you do now, your recovery is probably going to be very difficult. Periodic hcg usage is MANDATORY for long cycles like this. If you would have been using hcg weekly, you would have at least prevented significant testicular atrophy. That's one barrier to recovery.

Another one, some researchers are speculating, has to do with the internal "clock" used by the endocrine system. The thinking now is that lengthy cycles tend to screw up this timing mechanism found in the endocrine system, and that is a significant barrier to recovery. I would bet that consistent doses of hcg would help prevent this from happening.

And using fast-acting compounds or tapering won't help with recovery because you're already suppressed....LH is zip. You have no endogenous testosterone production. And it doesn't matter what AAS you take, exogenous hormones will prevent normalization of your endocrine system.

You're probably going to have to use a combination of clomid, nolvadex, and hcg in your recovery. Expect a real roller coaster ride with the hcg because one day you'll feel terrific, and then you'll crash again because hcg is suppressive in its own way. Best of luck to you.

wow i didnt know it was this bad..

Please don't say this is your first cycle...

I believe in using short acting AS (Fina, Prop, Winstrol...etc.) at the end of a cycle. Just makes sense to me. Why would you taper or quit others and just take Test E. Your "balls" aren't going to start recovering while on test any way. I say your natural test production is screwed while on AS so why not go until recovery. Here is the end of my last cycle.
EQ wks 1-9
Test E wks 1-10
Prop weeks 11-12 EOD
Fina weeks 11-12 EOD
Week 13 - start Clomid

well if suppression is the same wether on 500mg test ew or 2g's and a shit load of other stuff..i would of course not tapper or drop androgens.. but as we all know.. recovering from 500mg of test for 12 weeks..isnt the same as recovering from 150mg fina ed for 6-8 weeks..

still anyone recommend how i should use the proviron.. never understood how to use it post cycle???

btw, i have been on the boards for 5+ years.. started with triedia then elite for years and since have been floating around.. i have done about 5 cycles mostly low dose to moderate.. first time with fina tho.

thanks
cay
UWANAFIGHT2

uwanafight2 said:

...first time with fina tho.

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I don't think the 3 weeks of fina is going to do anything more to you than 23 weeks straight of using exogenous androgens has already done.

I have disagree because i have already seen gains.. especially in strenght.. and since i am on low doses..700mg ew total... the fina will bring the total up to 1050.. which i think will give me some decent gains.. even if the extra is only for 3 weeks..

any word on the use of proviron during post cycle as an anti estogen/libido support.. or should i use it now to help shed water??

cya
UWANAFIGHT2.. thanks

bump

Ideal would be to end with short acting esters, like prop. I have recovered fine on test cyp & EQ, just stopping cold and starting clomid 2 weeks later.

uwanafight2 said:

I have disagree because i have already seen gains..

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I wasn't referring to gains, I was speaking from the aspect of post-cycle recovery. If I was in your position, I wouldn't be worrying about recovering from 3 weeks of tren usage as much as recovering from supraphysiological androgen supplementation for 23 weeks straight.

I'm just coming off using short-acting esters to decrease the amount of time I have to wait to start nolavdex/insulin/igf
example:

Week 1-6 Testosterone Enanthate 750mg/week
Week 6-8 Testosterone Propionate 700mg/week
Week 10-14 Tamoxifen 20mg/day
Week 10-14 Insulin 10iu/day
Week 10-14 Long r3 IGF-1 30mcg/day