Talking to Harvey earlier.....

And we were discussing just how much fat the body will give up over a week or over a few consecutive weeks.

With all the fat loss supps, cardio, calorie restriction going on what's the best (as in extreme) that you could probably achieve?

It's my belief that some people overdo it on the above. And setting muscle loss aside for a second, that the above mentioned people could achieve the same results from less. That anything above a certain point would be overkill.

So what you all think?

If I run GH, IGF, DNP, Clen, ECA, T3, all together, did an hour of cardio in the morning and another in the evening and cut calories by a 1000 a day would my results be any better than just doing a few of those things?

Don't know about you, but I'd go into cardiac arrest taking that cocktail! LOL

goldenear said:

Don't know about you, but I'd go into cardiac arrest taking that cocktail! LOL

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I think you missed the point of the question.

very good point, I think we all get to the point were we want to overdo it.

your only going to loose so much fat a week anyway, no matter what you add in the mix

I really couldn't tell you from experience, but my thoughts on it are if you find something that works for you, and then next time you do it, and it doesn't work the same, or as good, then the next time around you're going to add something else in there, or up the dosages.

Now I do believe that it would be in someones best interest to take weight loss slowly and gradually, then again sometimes people don't have time and try to overkill the process, in which sides can be very high. This being said, my thoughs are to take any process slow, and well thought out.

When I did the body for life cardio routine in the morning. I lost a TON of fat... problem is I lost some muscle too because doing that routine without eating puts ur body into a catabolic state. Ephedra will make your metabolism speed up.. that helps.

winnie said:

I really couldn't tell you from experience, but my thoughts on it are if you find something that works for you, and then next time you do it, and it doesn't work the same, or as good, then the next time around you're going to add something else in there, or up the dosages.

Now I do believe that it would be in someones best interest to take weight loss slowly and gradually, then again sometimes people don't have time and try to overkill the process, in which sides can be very high. This being said, my thoughs are to take any process slow, and well thought out.

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Good point Winnie!

I personally think that you should plan on 1-3 lbs a week and allow enough time to get there. That's fat not weight and with the 3 coming at the beginning and the 1 at the end.

The conversation Harv and I were having surrounded DNP use and why it wasn't necessary to add anything else to the mix. I believe that even if you added everything but the kitchen sink you are only going to loose "X" amount of fat anyways. I believe the body will find away of retaining it. In other words, if you are going to do DNP and are going to loose 5 lbs on it, adding clen, cutting calories, doing cardio isn't going to amount to a 10lb lose. That's the extreme example to make the point clear.

winnie said:

Now I do believe that it would be in someones best interest to take weight loss slowly and gradually, then again sometimes people don't have time and try to overkill the process, in which sides can be very high.

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LA, I didn't miss the point of your question. winnie essentially penned my thoughts in a more diplomatic manner than I.

My point is that I think it's time that people seriously evaluate their goals and expectations and realize that they're manipulating their bodies' physiologies using methods that weren't meant to be used. And by doing so, they may be potentiating the accrual of many different types of disorders or pathologies.

Take the Fen-Phen incident as an example. Mitral regurgitation is real, as are other valve disorders, and has been directly and causally linked to Fen-Phen (& Pondimin and Redux) consumption. However, thousands of users may be assymptomatic, in which case only an echocardiogram would definitively identify an abnormality.

And this is the problem with the majority of substances people are using or abusing. Just because we all read the cut-and-paste drug profiles proliferated all over the 'net identifying "side effects" and then fail to actually accrue those side effects during a cycle does not mean that other problems are not developing that will manifest themselves at some later date. What does it feel like when your creatinine clearance falls out of normal range. Well, I felt nothing. But guess what, since my 24-hour urinalysis shows an abnormally low result, I have to go have a renal ultrasound to ascertain whether or not I am experiencing decreased renal function. And you know what, my creatinine level on my renal panel came back @ 1.6... exactly what it was 2 years ago. So blood tests DO NOT tell the whole story. Granted, they do a pretty good job, but as my example demonstrates, you just can't sign off and go on autopilot after getting favorable results on your labs.

I mean what's the pct. of users on these Internet boards who actually earn their living through physiological manipulation anyway?

So your saying that at some point more isn't better. Well I agree, but at what point? If you could take whatever you wanted at whatever dose than you would lose as much fat as possible and maintain or even gain as much muscle as possible. Maybe people go crazy with all they take because they want to look their absolute best possible. Just like with a car, at some point it not going to actually go much faster, but people will dump thousands into it, just to drive to work or go crusing. Why not put everything into it you can. If your trying to say that people should use less than that is one way to think of it. Maybe just up the dose on what your using instead of using 10 different things. But many people on these bb boards don't go over certain doses because they have been brain washed into thinking that a certain amount is the absolute limit and if you go over that a steroid police officer would come to your house and kill you and your family. Common held beliefs that using over a gram of testosterone a week makes you a crazy person, using more than the exact dose of clen specified by a self-proclimed interent guru makes you insane.

Sorry about rant...anyways maybe some use more than they need to gain muscle or lose fat, but what is your point? Too use less to save them money? Are you worried about everyone's health? Should we design a fat loss drug protocol, thou shall use this at this dose and that is it, no more? If people are taking things together that will cause them to have an adverse reaction than we should tell them not to take those things together. But if one person is using more than we use....who cares?

Another way to think of it, is compared to "normal" people we ALL use too much of all this stuff anyways. So should we quit using
illegal druigs because they think that? I mean role-playing

I just think its fine unless someone is putting their health at risk....but aren't we doing that anyways by using steroids? Aren't our lipid profiles effected, what about prostate, are we more likely to get cancer?

I also agree with your point LA that just 1-2lbs. of fat/week would be fine, same for actual muscle

just my .02 cts

anything that comes to fast is really not worth it...

weight loss is no different. if it comes off too fast you lose muscle as well. this is not what anyone wants.

I think it is possible to lose 1/2 - 1 lb of weight a day but at that rate think of the muscle loss

remember this as well when useing gear more is not better I think the same thing of weight loss "gear"

I may be wrong or just talking out of my ass but thought I would share

shiko24

Well more is better as far as dose is conserned. 200mg/week of test doesn't so much 600mg/week does a lot more. At some point it isn't worth the risk and is stupid 10g/week of testosterone. I think at moderately high doses though one should be fine..sorry about rant earlier kind of grumpy.

machine99 said:

Well more is better as far as dose is conserned. 200mg/week of test doesn't so much 600mg/week does a lot more. At some point it isn't worth the risk and is stupid 10g/week of testosterone. I think at moderately high doses though one should be fine..sorry about rant earlier kind of grumpy.

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I agree w/ you that 600mg/EW is a lot better for BBer's then 200mg/EW....200mg EW would just be suitable for HRT, not good for BBer's goals.

what's dnp?

oh cool, you guys sure know a lot about this stuff

The point I'm trying to make was- I believe the body will only surrender so many lbs of a week of fat no matter how much of anything you took, under ate or did cardio to accomplish.

If you are at your max fat loss then adding an additional 30 mins of cardio ed or boosting the clen from 120 to 180 isn't going to aid in the fat reduction department. I believe the body has some sort of internal mechanism that limits the amount of fat it can loose over a short period of time.

I was just wondering if people agreed with this?

Yes, I believe the body will shut down to protect itself to prevent starvation.

There is a point of returns diminishing to near zero. The question still remains as to when Occam's Razor's end point is approached to the extent that said returns are not worth the investment of effort and/or resources.

Occam's Razor is a philosophical description of the following paradox: If every step you take halved the distance between you and the sought end point, do you ever cross the endpoint?

Most say that you do, some say you never reach that endpoint. I count myself among the latter. I have many times came very close to a goal but not quite reached it.

Well, i mean are we tlkaing about healthily? If that the case you should only loose around 1% of you bodyweight a week if that the case.

Very well put COldHeartBear, you want to losse as much as you can without sacificing too much at the same time.

I feel that with the proper diet /cardio/workout routine you dont need to run aloto of things to burn fat and perserve muscle.