more is better. I know more muscle is better and its most of our goals here. But what about volumes of juice. i remember when a six week cycle of maybe just test and winny was a good hard cycle and people got good gains from it. Now its the norm to run 16-20 week cycles with 3 or 4 steroids stcked throughout , usually including insulin or other substances like T-3 or clen and lots of ancillarys because of the insane dosages. I honestly think we are getting a little used to seeing huge dosages and just thinking thats normal. I plan to never compete and and i really dont want to be as big as someone who does compete in the heavy classes. I want to be fit and look great and be muscular enough to satisfy my goals for myself. Somewhere along the way i went from small dosages to keeping up with the trends and my cycle plans got to look ugly with large dosages and large amounts of cash. I just think i can temper my body plans with my cycle plans and avoid alot of sides , alot of costs , and alot of chnces of getting gyno.
Why is it we all seem to have the mentality
- Thread starter pudgy
- Start date
teekahty
Hardly a Newbie
Well since you opened the can of worms here , i will fan the flames ... More is not better when it comes to Juice ... No matter how much you put in ... Your Body can only use so much the rest is converted to estrogen ... The more synthetic test you pump in the more estrogen your body contains ... Even if you are a pro .. your body is only able to accept so much test ,, it does not matter what you weigh or what you look like ..
BLEED GREEN
New member
I tend to agree, I think my dosages(500mg Test and 500 mg EQ) 4th cycle, are middle of the road. As long as they continue to work why increase...
LA
New member
Ok, and now for an opposing opinion.
When it comes to juice, more is better (for muscle gains). The more juice, the more muscle- period. Also, the more sides.
I'm going to leave this answer "as is" for now. I have a feeling this post is going to cause much debate and would like to allow sometime for a few more members to state their opinions first.
When it comes to juice, more is better (for muscle gains). The more juice, the more muscle- period. Also, the more sides.
I'm going to leave this answer "as is" for now. I have a feeling this post is going to cause much debate and would like to allow sometime for a few more members to state their opinions first.
saturn
New member
I totally agree.....I believe in using the least amout to achive your goal for your cycle. I have several cycles under my belt and have never gone above 750mg of test a week (well except 4 weeks at the beginning of my last cycle adding prop for a kick start). I see guys on the boards talking about thier cycles and insane dosages and most of them have only been training for a short time and don't have a whole lot of quality muscle. If people would put as much time and effort in thier training and diet as they do in thier cycles they would be much better off.
I am currently on the last month of a 6 month cycle of 1 g test,fina 150 eod and 6 wks anandrol for the first minth and 6 weeks d bol for the 4th to 5 th month--long big cycle--SO WHAT!
I have always had my blood levels checked and was ok.
Money wise--that's all relative.Some would say to spend 20 bucks on a cycle is too much--so thats not even go there.
being on alot of juiced enabled me to cheat on my diet--so what--thats my choice--it worked for me.Do i get bigger on 1.5 of gear wkly than 500 wkly--absolutly. so why not? I,m 50 yrs old-its my choice--as long as I,m being checked by my md and all is relativly safe than I believe we should promoting peoples personal choices and not deciding on whats the right amount of gear to use--
YOU use 300 grms of test a week? well theres a large amount of people who would say thats TOO MUCH!
I have always had my blood levels checked and was ok.
Money wise--that's all relative.Some would say to spend 20 bucks on a cycle is too much--so thats not even go there.
being on alot of juiced enabled me to cheat on my diet--so what--thats my choice--it worked for me.Do i get bigger on 1.5 of gear wkly than 500 wkly--absolutly. so why not? I,m 50 yrs old-its my choice--as long as I,m being checked by my md and all is relativly safe than I believe we should promoting peoples personal choices and not deciding on whats the right amount of gear to use--
YOU use 300 grms of test a week? well theres a large amount of people who would say thats TOO MUCH!
footballcat
Hardly a Newbie
I think that alot of people over look there diet. Diet is key to growing. But you allways here about taht kid, who thinks more is better and hes 22 running over 1 gram a week of test, and 700 of deca, and is losing his hair, not for me. I think my next cycle will b low dose, longer time
tugs said:
Tugs, first of all i was not meaning my post to be threatening. THat is the feeling i get from you in your response. It is mearly an observation i have made and it is my opinion. Im not trying to be right , the reasoni posted it is to be discussed. I knew it would cause opposition and your points are very good. It is a personal choice , you are doing it safely , and you can afford it and you want to , so be it. What is right for me obviously not right for you.
BLEED GREEN
New member
tugs said:
I don't believe that he was trying to influence anybody anymore than you are now with this post........
that's cool--i didn't mean to jump hard on it--its just that for me the red flags go up when i see limits being suggested and it takes off in that direction--i do understand that gear could be OUTRAGEOULSLY DANGEROUS- and its good to take caution.For me,i always push things to the edge--i probably need to back off alittle--its just that i let the blood test results justify what amounts I do.And hey,who wants to give up the outrageous high i get from being rock hard and a sky high libido
There comes a point where side effects outweigh gains. I feel many people are pushing to that point and beyond for no apparent reason. Pro BB is one thing but just taking them to look good is another. If you are not getting results off of moderate to moderately high doses then most likely your diet and training are messed up.
This is not my opinion...it is fact. Its BS to say that a guy 5'10 235lbs and 8-9%bf can not grow off of less 1000-1200mg of test. The sad thing is many guys smaller than this are using this much gear or more. I personally think the 1.2g of test is too much per week, but to each their own.
This is not my opinion...it is fact. Its BS to say that a guy 5'10 235lbs and 8-9%bf can not grow off of less 1000-1200mg of test. The sad thing is many guys smaller than this are using this much gear or more. I personally think the 1.2g of test is too much per week, but to each their own.
learner202
Banana
I think a lot of guys don't see the results off small doses anymore after a few years or whatever of use. Is that why they use more and more?! Input?
tugs said:
I simply don't believe this statement. Sorry bro, but I would bet money that your lipid profile was terrible during the entire run of this cycle.
Regarding the original topic of this thread...there was a study posted at Elite that showed progressively better LBM gains with greater testosterone dosages (topped out @ 600mg/wk.). So I'm going to support LA's comment based on the evidence presented from this study. However, I also believe there is a point of diminishing returns.
That being said, I have completely changed my approach to AAS usage. If this discussion goes that direction, I'll share my ideas. Otherwise, I'll keep 'em to myself, lol.
I guess people are different. Some react no different whether it's 400mg or 1g of test, and some just response proportionally to the amount of test taken.
I myself used to believe more is better but after a hard look at my diet and workout and sleep, 400mg of test e work great for me. I focus more on those 3 elements than I do with the dosage. However, IGF-1 didn't work for me.
Nice post btw.
I myself used to believe more is better but after a hard look at my diet and workout and sleep, 400mg of test e work great for me. I focus more on those 3 elements than I do with the dosage. However, IGF-1 didn't work for me.
Nice post btw.
My blood levels were ok--MEANING--of course they were out of whack--test levels were 3700--estro 670 at times--chol were whack--they WERE OK in the sense that they were only temporary and would all return to normal.Relax goldeear,think about it--most sides are temporary--when you work out I bet you take some eca stack--now ,right after you drop your last weight I bet some of your levels are excedding normal,right? but there only temporary.When i said this before i knew that they were ok only in the sense that they wern't at a point of no return.Are all sides temporary?(gyno) no--but mine were ,thanks.
BLEED GREEN
New member
goldenear said:
You have always showed a great deal of knowledge in your responses...Share your idea here....
machine99
New member
I have the study about the dose-dependant results of testosterone, showing that actually more is better. However it doesn't go high enough. I would like to see a study with a group give 750mg/week another 1,000mg week another 1,500mg/week another 2g/week. for 8 weeks and see what happens. Of course you might have a hard time finding subjects for your study, but it would be interesting to see the strength/muscle gains and also sides on the high end. As far as lipid profiles, I haven't heard much on how to keep them in the normal range. What should be taken or eaten or whatever to try to counteract any negative influences steroids might cause on your lipid profile. Be a nice article actually.
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