whiteox
New member
I don't personally have any experience with lipostabil, but for those of you that are considering it, you might want to check out this link - might make you reconsider.
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=270402
Also - here's a post copied off a newsgroup about lipostabil that I haven't seen on any of the boards.
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Hey,
In response to your inquiry about phosphatidylcholine (PC), I
was way off. It turns out that a guy at this institution is one of the
pioneers of research in the area of that glycolipid. Here is the basic
lowdown. It is a lipid, often found in the plasma membrane of most cells.
It has particularly high concentrations in neural, kidney, and liver cells.
It is made by several pathways that are complicated and not worth knowing,
but it is derived from choline you take in through the diet.
According to what I looked at, it gets broken down by pancreatic
enzymes if ingested, so all you will get if you took a pill would be free
fatty acids and some glycerol. If taken into the body in some other way,
the effect would be quite different.
It is very complicated, but I can send you the article this guy
wrote if you really wanna see it, but it turns out that the molecule PC is
involved in a bunch of signaling processes in cells. A lot of them they do
not understand. One of the ones they do is actually the one I am working
on, the sphingomyelin/ ceramide pathway. Basically, if you create PC, it
can get converted to sphingomyelin, and under the right signals that will be
converted to ceramide. Depending on how much ceramide is made, there will
be different effects. One is cell growth and proliferation, another is cell
cycle arrest, and another is cell death.
So, what does this mean? Well, because PC can increases
ceramide concentrations, it can have an effect on any cells that have
ceramide, such as adipocytes (fat cells). I am sure that at the right
concentration PC can induce death of fat cells, but this would merely
release their contents into the body, so I may have been right in saying the
fat will just get transferred someplace else. But, because the fat released
is unprocessed and useless in that form, it is likely it could just be
excreted in your feces. So, in a way, this stuff could get rid of fat. That
is the good news.
The very bad news is that PC will kill other forms of cells.
What cells? Remember the ones that had a lot in them? Neurons, liver, and
kidney cells? You will most likely kill those cells a lot sooner than you
will kill fat cells because they are probably more sensitive to PC, and I
know they are more sensitive to ceramide. Because the theory is to get the
stuff into the body right at the site of the fat, this is not too much of a
concern. BUT, no one knows exactly how much of PC is too much for nerve
cells, etc. So, even a small perturbation of PC levels may be lethal to
neurons, but have no effect on fat cells. This could have consequences for
the skin and muscles near where PC is used, leading to eventual loss of
muscle tone, numbness, or even paralysis. If the smooth muscles of the
small vessels near the site undergo paralysis, the surrounding tissues will
not get enough blood and will die. This could result in the skin, muscle,
and fat all rotting away (gangrene).
So, in summary, I would advise anyone considering to take this
stuff not to. Ingesting it will just cause it to be broken down, so you may
as well flush the money down the toilet. Because of all of the uncertainty
surrounding exactly what the effect is on different cells, and the potential
for severe medical problems down the road (I didn't even go into brain
damage or liver or kidney failure, but by the way PC has been shown to cause
kidney failure in mice), I would strongly recommend no one inject or
otherwise self-administer PC.
Hope this helps
Michael
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=270402
Also - here's a post copied off a newsgroup about lipostabil that I haven't seen on any of the boards.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hey,
In response to your inquiry about phosphatidylcholine (PC), I
was way off. It turns out that a guy at this institution is one of the
pioneers of research in the area of that glycolipid. Here is the basic
lowdown. It is a lipid, often found in the plasma membrane of most cells.
It has particularly high concentrations in neural, kidney, and liver cells.
It is made by several pathways that are complicated and not worth knowing,
but it is derived from choline you take in through the diet.
According to what I looked at, it gets broken down by pancreatic
enzymes if ingested, so all you will get if you took a pill would be free
fatty acids and some glycerol. If taken into the body in some other way,
the effect would be quite different.
It is very complicated, but I can send you the article this guy
wrote if you really wanna see it, but it turns out that the molecule PC is
involved in a bunch of signaling processes in cells. A lot of them they do
not understand. One of the ones they do is actually the one I am working
on, the sphingomyelin/ ceramide pathway. Basically, if you create PC, it
can get converted to sphingomyelin, and under the right signals that will be
converted to ceramide. Depending on how much ceramide is made, there will
be different effects. One is cell growth and proliferation, another is cell
cycle arrest, and another is cell death.
So, what does this mean? Well, because PC can increases
ceramide concentrations, it can have an effect on any cells that have
ceramide, such as adipocytes (fat cells). I am sure that at the right
concentration PC can induce death of fat cells, but this would merely
release their contents into the body, so I may have been right in saying the
fat will just get transferred someplace else. But, because the fat released
is unprocessed and useless in that form, it is likely it could just be
excreted in your feces. So, in a way, this stuff could get rid of fat. That
is the good news.
The very bad news is that PC will kill other forms of cells.
What cells? Remember the ones that had a lot in them? Neurons, liver, and
kidney cells? You will most likely kill those cells a lot sooner than you
will kill fat cells because they are probably more sensitive to PC, and I
know they are more sensitive to ceramide. Because the theory is to get the
stuff into the body right at the site of the fat, this is not too much of a
concern. BUT, no one knows exactly how much of PC is too much for nerve
cells, etc. So, even a small perturbation of PC levels may be lethal to
neurons, but have no effect on fat cells. This could have consequences for
the skin and muscles near where PC is used, leading to eventual loss of
muscle tone, numbness, or even paralysis. If the smooth muscles of the
small vessels near the site undergo paralysis, the surrounding tissues will
not get enough blood and will die. This could result in the skin, muscle,
and fat all rotting away (gangrene).
So, in summary, I would advise anyone considering to take this
stuff not to. Ingesting it will just cause it to be broken down, so you may
as well flush the money down the toilet. Because of all of the uncertainty
surrounding exactly what the effect is on different cells, and the potential
for severe medical problems down the road (I didn't even go into brain
damage or liver or kidney failure, but by the way PC has been shown to cause
kidney failure in mice), I would strongly recommend no one inject or
otherwise self-administer PC.
Hope this helps
Michael
