carbs and fat seperation

Is this principle of to have protein with low to no carbs with higher fat intake and vice versa total bs or does it have credence and if so how many of you apply it to your meals out side your pre and post workout window. Thanks. I know alot of pro body builders and natual ones that eat steak and potatoes all the time and are lean and ripped even into contest time. I was just curious

I have done low carb many times. Do a search for keto you'll find several threads about this subject.

I don't know what your goals are, but I've been doing 3 days low carbs and 1 day high carb and I've dropped off some fat pretty quick.

My low carb days are not extreme (less than 100g per day) and very little of them are simple

Good Question!!!

Sounds like you're referring to the idea of alternating low carb (higher fat) w/ high carb (low fat) meals over the course of a day.

The idea would be that you could increase insulin sensitivity in a matter of hours, which would provide a hormonal mileau (less insulin) that is not conducive to fat gain. It is still a matter of kcal in vs. kcal out when it comes to loseing or gaining fat, but we all know that hormones can play a big role in this.

Insulin, for instance, causes something called "futile" cycling, whereby energy is essentially loss b/c enzymes of carbohydrate metabolism are activated (ATP used) and enzymes that undo this activate are also active. (Thinking now of PFK kinase and PFK bisphosphatase.) This is basically like taking one step forward and then o1 step back - end result is simply energy loss but in terms of the metabolic processes involving the carbs, you're back where y ou started. This is one of the things that causes the thermic response to feeding / eating.

Anyway, hypothetically, you could take advantage of such things by eating a low carb meal in between a high carb meal and do a better job of handling the carbs (less fat storage, more glycogen storage) b/c you have had enough time to restore / improve insulin sensitivity during the 5-6 hr between carb meals. (Whereas this would not happend eating a carb containing meal every 2-3 hr).

Haven't seen it demonstrated in humans, but there might be something in the animal lit. which I haven't loooked into for a long time. A guy named Flatt wouuld be the one who would have done it (with mice, probably).

But, like y ou said, hard as nails, genetics is the overriding factor.

FYI< I recall reading the Lee Labrada used to eat this way. I also saw Doggcrapp post recently that he has his trainees do the same. (He also includes a non-carb meal at night, giving the time during sleep to do the insulin sensitivity trick, but varies the time of the alst carb containing meal according to the althete's genetics and propensityu for putting on fat. He seems to have pretty good results.)

-Randy

hi randy :shocked::wave:

homonunculus said:

...provide a hormonal mileau...

Click to expand...

If you aren't going to speak with normal words that I can understand, you HAVE to spell them correctly. It is milieu, my brother.

Oh, I LOOOOVE to do that. hehe

Skip

homonunculus said:

Good Question!!!

Sounds like you're referring to the idea of alternating low carb (higher fat) w/ high carb (low fat) meals over the course of a day.

The idea would be that you could increase insulin sensitivity in a matter of hours, which would provide a hormonal mileau (less insulin) that is not conducive to fat gain. It is still a matter of kcal in vs. kcal out when it comes to loseing or gaining fat, but we all know that hormones can play a big role in this.

Insulin, for instance, causes something called "futile" cycling, whereby energy is essentially loss b/c enzymes of carbohydrate metabolism are activated (ATP used) and enzymes that undo this activate are also active. (Thinking now of PFK kinase and PFK bisphosphatase.) This is basically like taking one step forward and then o1 step back - end result is simply energy loss but in terms of the metabolic processes involving the carbs, you're back where y ou started. This is one of the things that causes the thermic response to feeding / eating.

Anyway, hypothetically, you could take advantage of such things by eating a low carb meal in between a high carb meal and do a better job of handling the carbs (less fat storage, more glycogen storage) b/c you have had enough time to restore / improve insulin sensitivity during the 5-6 hr between carb meals. (Whereas this would not happend eating a carb containing meal every 2-3 hr).

Haven't seen it demonstrated in humans, but there might be something in the animal lit. which I haven't loooked into for a long time. A guy named Flatt wouuld be the one who would have done it (with mice, probably).

But, like y ou said, hard as nails, genetics is the overriding factor.

FYI< I recall reading the Lee Labrada used to eat this way. I also saw Doggcrapp post recently that he has his trainees do the same. (He also includes a non-carb meal at night, giving the time during sleep to do the insulin sensitivity trick, but varies the time of the alst carb containing meal according to the althete's genetics and propensityu for putting on fat. He seems to have pretty good results.)

-Randy

Click to expand...

Now that's an answer!!!

Skip said:

If you aren't going to speak with normal words that I can understand, you HAVE to spell them correctly. It is milieu, my brother.

Oh, I LOOOOVE to do that. hehe

Skip

Click to expand...

Skip,

Sounds good to me... I'll do the understanding and you can be my spellchecker!!! LOL. Touché! ( Is my accent mark going the right direction?...)

-Randy

raybravo said:

hi randy :shocked::wave:

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Big Dog!!! What's up, man. GLAD to see ya here!!!

-R

am doing good bro , i saw skip post about this board on promuscle and the post also said u were a mod here , so i dropped in . looks like a pretty neat board , going to stick around !

Yes that's how Doggcrapp has his clients do their meals. Either high protein and carbs or high protein and fats, never protein, carbs and fats. The carbs cause insulin spike and could drive fats to adipose stores. Also carb cut off is around 5 to 6pm.

Ray

raybravo said:

am doing good bro , i saw skip post about this board on promuscle and the post also said u were a mod here , so i dropped in . looks like a pretty neat board , going to stick around !

Click to expand...

Glad to see ya here, man. I think you'll like it - very similar atmosphere as at PM.

-Randy

JonnyO said:

Yes that's how Doggcrapp has his clients do their meals. Either high protein and carbs or high protein and fats, never protein, carbs and fats. The carbs cause insulin spike and could drive fats to adipose stores. Also carb cut off is around 5 to 6pm.

Click to expand...

here's a question , how much of a insulin spike would there be !? i mean due to the presence of the protein and fat , wouldnt that affect the insulin spike ? so becos of this , maybe the insulin spike is negligible and u can get away with that .. ?

Fat causes little to no increase in insulin release. Protein causes a lesser one, but it is dependant upon the rate of amino acid entry into the blood. Make it a fatty mealk, slowing protein digestion, and you've got a pretty minimal insulin release.

-R

no i know fat doesnt cause an increase in insulin release , i was thinking would having fat and protein "decrease " an insulin spike which would otherwise be ?

The fat would slow the rate of amino acid entry into the blood - would lessen insulin release. Eat a pure protein meal and there will be some gluconeogenesis as well, whereas this will be lessened w/ the fat.

-Randy

damn this is getting too technical for me. Guess I'll stick to my PBJ sandwiches.

KR