ATTENTION: Homonunculus

LOL. Is this all I am to you guys - some sort of automated, walking, talking dictionary?...

Never mind... ;^)

Basically, the used mouse and cow muscle cells that were not fully developed (but doing so, and growing in size in a culture dish), to see how interleukin-15 affects development and growth. IL-15 is a cytokine, or type of cell-to-cell communication molecule that skeletal muscle cells (among others) use to communicate, *presumably* when adapting to an exercise stimulus (GROW, BABY!).

The IL-15 didn't affect the rate of proliferation or doubling of the developing cells (thymidine incorporation), which I would presume means it would not necessarily affect satellite cell division, which is necessary for muscle cells to grow (more on this if you want). However, it did increase the rate of myosin heavy chain accumulation, the major contractile protein. The cells were bigger with more contractile protein!

To compare it to IGF-1 (and eliminate the effect of IGF-1 on cell doubling), they blocked cellular proliferation (making new cells) with a chemical and found that in the cow cells, IL-15 and IGF-1 each doubled contractile protein production alone. Cool thing is, the effect was ADDITIVE when BOTH IGF-1 and IL-15 were both in the cell medium: the IGF-1 and IL-15 were acting via different pathways.

Bottom line. IL-15 increased muscle cell growth, but *might* not have the effect on satellite cells necessary for muscle cell growth (more on this, if you're interested). IL-15 and IGF-1 seem to increase cell size via different mechanisms. (Sounds like a recipe for a stack!!! LOL)

Limitations (among others):
These were developing cell lines. I have seen similar data using nearly the same model (fetal mouse muscle cells) showing that creatine was just as anabolic. We know it don't work THAT good (if at all!).

A developing muscle cell (not yet fully differentiated or even innervated!) is a hell of a lot different than a mature one in a functioning body.

Is IL-15 increased in response to an exercise stimulus?...

Where is the control group?... Were they simply *restoring* normal muscle contractile prot. accumulation by putting some IL-15 there?... (What are in utero levels?...). This is a problem with these kinds of in vitro (culture dish, etc.) studies. An analogy would be if you compared *no* protein consumption versus RDA protein consumption on gains in muscle mass with resistance training. Duh.

All of the issues of comparing the culture medium with that in vivo, e.g., concentration of the IL-15, half-life, feedback inhibition of its production, etc.
These were not human cells.

Hope this helps, man.

-Randy
 
Yeah, I really enjoy reading Randy's posts. I noticed that the study was in 1995-I am sure if the IL-15 was a serious breakthrough it would be well known by now. (Maybe it is a breakthrough and only the elite use it-or can afford it! LOL!) I recall a few years ago reading about someone using one of the IL's-and lost a ton of muscle mass. Turns out he was using an IL that is very catabolic. Anyone wanting to experiment with IL better make sure they have the right stuff.
 
homonunculus said:
LOL. Is this all I am to you guys - some sort of automated, walking, talking dictionary?...

Never mind... ;^)

Basically, the used mouse and cow muscle cells that were not fully developed (but doing so, and growing in size in a culture dish), to see how interleukin-15 affects development and growth. IL-15 is a cytokine, or type of cell-to-cell communication molecule that skeletal muscle cells (among others) use to communicate, *presumably* when adapting to an exercise stimulus (GROW, BABY!).

The IL-15 didn't affect the rate of proliferation or doubling of the developing cells (thymidine incorporation), which I would presume means it would not necessarily affect satellite cell division, which is necessary for muscle cells to grow (more on this if you want). However, it did increase the rate of myosin heavy chain accumulation, the major contractile protein. The cells were bigger with more contractile protein!

To compare it to IGF-1 (and eliminate the effect of IGF-1 on cell doubling), they blocked cellular proliferation (making new cells) with a chemical and found that in the cow cells, IL-15 and IGF-1 each doubled contractile protein production alone. Cool thing is, the effect was ADDITIVE when BOTH IGF-1 and IL-15 were both in the cell medium: the IGF-1 and IL-15 were acting via different pathways.

Bottom line. IL-15 increased muscle cell growth, but *might* not have the effect on satellite cells necessary for muscle cell growth (more on this, if you're interested). IL-15 and IGF-1 seem to increase cell size via different mechanisms. (Sounds like a recipe for a stack!!! LOL)

Limitations (among others):
These were developing cell lines. I have seen similar data using nearly the same model (fetal mouse muscle cells) showing that creatine was just as anabolic. We know it don't work THAT good (if at all!).

A developing muscle cell (not yet fully differentiated or even innervated!) is a hell of a lot different than a mature one in a functioning body.

Is IL-15 increased in response to an exercise stimulus?...

Where is the control group?... Were they simply *restoring* normal muscle contractile prot. accumulation by putting some IL-15 there?... (What are in utero levels?...). This is a problem with these kinds of in vitro (culture dish, etc.) studies. An analogy would be if you compared *no* protein consumption versus RDA protein consumption on gains in muscle mass with resistance training. Duh.

All of the issues of comparing the culture medium with that in vivo, e.g., concentration of the IL-15, half-life, feedback inhibition of its production, etc.
These were not human cells.

Hope this helps, man.

-Randy

Thank you, Sir. It was alleged that Ronnie was using this for the last Olympia. I personally think that Chad finally had him shitload. ;)

Skip
 
Skip said:
Thank you, Sir. It was alleged that Ronnie was using this for the last Olympia. I personally think that Chad finally had him shitload. ;)

Skip

I wasn't there, but I saw the pics. Phuckin' A, he took BB'ing to the next level IMO (like Dorian and Haney did at their peaks) . Whatever he did it was several shitloads. I am planning on going to this years O.
 
Its all in the shitload, Baby!!!

Here's a more interesting one:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entr...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14499665&dopt=Abstract

And another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entr...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12372339&dopt=Abstract

Doesn't seem that exercise increases it, though (?):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/entr...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14672962&dopt=Abstract

I still think we need to see a study on Masterpiece BBQ sauce (the best Barbeque sauce they make) and good old chicken. LOL

-R
 
I agree with skip . chad has talked about some new carb loading he is useing for his guys and also some new drug to help the carb load
 
WWM/PUMPED said:
I agree with skip . chad has talked about some new carb loading he is useing for his guys and also some new drug to help the carb load

Yes, I was kidding a bit about the shitload but I have heard from some VERY reliable sources (on top of you WWM) that there are strong similarities between Ronnie's prep this year and the shitload.

Do I know this for sure? Nope. However, it has come from some guys that are privy to what is going on at that level.

Yeah, I would be a bit flattered as I am sure Zilla would, also. :D

Skip
 
Take a listen to what Craig Titus says in Battle for the O. 2002 - he's describing a shitload style carb-up that he uses and that other guys use, too. Lee Priest does the same kind of thing, at least according to what he say on the same tape: He eats what he wants (albeit not in very large amounts) and minimizes water the day before the show.

I've read on several boards that Pro's have been doing shitload style carb-ups for a while (couple years), although there is only one person I can recall saying such a thing who is a personal friend and is definitely in the know. His word alone, to me, means that it is happening.

How long did it take us to figure out how many guys looks so much better on Sunday vs. Sat?... DUH LOL. Zilla and Skip are the men, though, for gettin' it down to a science.

Anyone else recall Ronnie mentioning this on video - maybe his first one? (Guess I have a project for tonight.)

-Randy
 
I may be mistaken but wasn't it Dorian that really started the carb up routine (got it to a science anyway) and who was his prep coach then?Hhhhmmmm. I certainly am not in the loop on this one...you guys know alot more about it than me....lol!
 
SS - Good question! First BB'er to use a carb up?...

I've heard / read the old school guys would start eating pasta etc., but the carb-up was pretty "crude." Funny how things come full circle.

-Randy
 
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