HCG confusion--while on--to use or not to use..,

so many opinions on this--to start,should you use hcg while on or not? then if you do decide to go on,how much do you take and how often?
For me I dont know if i want to get into this hcg cycling or not--do i need it?how do you tell? I am currently on a long test cycle--500 to 750 wkly---my sex drive is great--the only thing is that my sack is smaller--my nuts are the same size--just the sack is smaller and my volumne of semen is smaller too.What to do??

I'd like to bump this too...but tugs your sack is smaller most likely b/c your nuts are smaller. This is due to the body's test. shutdown shutdown and lack of spermogenis in the testes. Your sex drive will be great esp. while on test so don't let that fool you into thinking you don't need HCG. How long have you been using the test for?? Oh yeah you're nut sack might seem smaller too b/c of temp. (I know it sounds stupid) but the physiological reasoning for the nut sack to be on the outside of the body is to protect reproduction and allow lower temp's on the sperm instead of 98.6 body temps. If you go into cold water you'll notice your nut sack gets closer to the body and becoms wrinkled right? Well that's b/c it doesn't need them so far away. If you're very hot or just finished working out the nut sack will hang lower (relaxed) b/c it is trying to keep lower temp levels on the balls. HOPE YOU GUYS ENJOYED THAT ANATOMY/PHYS. LESSON!!!


I'm curious if the negative feedback from the HCG/AAS is worth using it mid cycle or if the gains would be even more enhanced b/c natural test (of course temp. in addition to exogenous test.)

Also, wouldn't it be quicker for the body to reach homeostasis sooner after cessesion of a cycle since the HCG during mid cycle would help lessen the length the time the body's hormones were shut down.

I've heard both ways work but curious as to any proof...or opinions.

I know the need for post cycle is there--i,m just try ing to figure out if its really necasary to use during cycle--once i start it i,m totally into it--but i,m just trying to play devils advocate to it to become convinced that this is now a new necessary part of gear usage

think the guy who wrote this was "Dr. John(swale i think)"


I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

That's an interesting post raybravo.

I like the AI part about lipid profile b/c that is why I take letrozole 5 days a wk (m-f) then Nolvadex on wkends (s/s) b/c I know that estrogen helps control the cholesterol in the blood. It makes sense too since men (with less estrogen than women) have many more heart attacks and bad lipid profiles and why women (who have higher estrogen...obviously) have fewer heart attacks.

Cool to see a DR opinion on the use of AAS rather than most DR's who state "They're dangerous and will kill you. I strongly advise you to stop using them!" I wish more DR's would broaden their horizons and then give their DR advice but offer ways of using them safely to patients who choose to use them regardless. It seems more sensible and ethical to me......at least a DR wouldn't feel guilty if a patient died b/c he offered both his opinion and some advice on how to be safe with it.

since i started using hcg throughout my entire cycles i have gotten much better results after coming off cycle. I keep so much more of my gains so much easier. I use 500-1000iu per week split into 2 shots and ill tell u i never have any kind of crash or anything after cycle, IMO i would never not use hcg in my cycle, it just makes so much more sense, i mean why let yourself get shut down for 10-16 weeks and then try to bring it back up?

I've incorporated Swale's theory into my current cycle (500iu/wk)and I can say that my boys are doing well. it's the first time that they haven't turned into raisins. I've got 2 wks left so I'll see how much more it helps with post cycle recovery.