Who Know About MetFormin?

BrownBomber

New member
I was talking to RayBravo about this and have some questions...... a lot of questions fellas

1) Is Met used while on Slin or Off Slin?

2) Does Met help control fat gain or help somewhat with gaining muscle?

3) Can it be used after every Carb meal?

4) Can it be used aftr a Fat and Protein (No Carb) meal?

5) Should it be cycled on and off?

6) Is it more benficial on a bulker or a cutter?

7) Is there a max amount I should take at once/daily?

Thanks fellas
BB
 
Glucophage is a brand name for metformin which is an oral hypoglycemic drug. Glucophage was made to be used to control adult onset diabetes. This drug is will increase the body's ability to transport glucose into the muscle cells much better by increasing insulin sensitivity. This substance will also inhibit the body's formation of sugar by the liver whereby lowering insulin secretion in the body. This substance is very similar to phenformin, that is also an oral hypoglycemic except that phenformin is considered the harsher of the two compounds. Phenformin is considered to be from 5 - 10 times stronger than Glucophage at what it does for the body on a mg. per mg. comparison.

Glucophage has signifigantly less side effects than phenformin has as well. The chance for an overdose causing hypoglycemia with the use of Glucophage is dose related whereas you almost have to take a lethal dose. It is common knowledge that Glucophage will increase insulin sensitivity as well.

As far as bodybuilders are concerned, this product is used as an oral form of insulin. It will cause greater glycogen supercompensation during carb-ups as well as lowering blood glucose for those that are using the BodyOpus or Atkins diet to induce ketosis more easily. Common side effects of Glucophage are a metallic taste in the mouth, nausea, and vomiting. This will become on the next big drugs used by professional bodybuilders in the coming years for its ability as a repartitioning agent and blood glucose disposal agent.

Effective Dose: 1,700 mg. per day in divided doses. You have to take this with meals and with water to avoid stomach upset.


Stacking Info: This compound is commonly taken with Creatine in order to help shuttle the creatine into the muscles more effectively since this product increases insulin sensitivity

I dont think I would stack ala with metformin...ALA seems to give a similar carb shuttling action and may result in low blood sugar and some unwanted sides may occur.....Make sure you have carbs handy at all times just in case you feel dizzy....especially in traffic.


1) Is Met used while on Slin or Off Slin? You can use with slin, but why?

2) Does Met help control fat gain or help somewhat with gaining muscle? It does help control fat gain by stabilizing insulin and blood sugar...overall glucose disposal

3) Can it be used after every Carb meal? Depends on how many meals and the dosage of your tabs. I use the 500mg tabs...I would not excedd 3000mg. So if youre having six moderate to high carb meals you can take 1 500mg tab with each meal. I would go the safer route and do it with 3-4 meals.

4) Can it be used aftr a Fat and Protein (No Carb) meal? Dont use without carbs unless you like the possibilty of fallin over from low blood sugar.

5) Should it be cycled on and off? Not necessary. Ive used for years at a time. It's actually a great life extension drug.

6) Is it more benficial on a bulker or a cutter? Either one. Just dont expect dramatic results. It's just another supplement that gives result with a good overall diet and exercise program.

7) Is there a max amount I should take at once/daily? Dont exceed 3000mg. this increases your chance of low blood sugar and even lactic acidosis.....stick too 2000mg or less.
 
I forgot.....

"1) Is Met used while on Slin or Off Slin? You can use with slin, but why?"

From what I have been reading it helps control the fat gain usually assoc. w/ Slin. It also allows you to use a lower dose.

Right/Wrong?

Thanks
BB
 
It makes your own natural insulin more efficient thereby reduce the output of insulin......so, yes, with that in mind you can use slin at lower doses with glucophage. Just be on top of things. Always have a candy bar in your pocket in case you feel low blood sugar coming on...........
 
Great info bro...last questions I promise ;)

1) Is the reason why ppl tend to gain less fat while using Metformin w/ Slin because the fact thier using less Slin or because Metformin does something else?

2) Do you recommend using Avandia over metformin? Ive heard that it is better for "our needs."

Thanks again
BB
 
1) Is the reason why ppl tend to gain less fat while using Metformin w/ Slin because the fact thier using less Slin or because Metformin does something else? Again it comes to metformins ability to make insulin receptors more sensitive Which in turn means your utilizing most of the insulin and glucose is shuttled more efficiently........Therefore you dont have any excess insulin (which is a trigylceride) being store as fat.


2) Do you recommend using Avandia over metformin? Ive heard that it is better for "our needs."

Avendia is a totally different drug.

Targeting insulin resistance
Type 2 diabetes occurs for different reasons. For some people, the pancreas doesn't produce enough insulin (a hormone that helps the sugar in your blood enter the cells of your body).

However for other people, the cells throughout the body develop a condition called insulin resistance. Although the pancreas produces insulin, the body's cells cannot use it effectively, and the sugar (sometimes called glucose) stays in the blood. Over time, blood sugar levels rise, and type 2 diabetes develops.

Avandia works to help overcome this insulin resistance by making the body's cells more sensitive to insulin.


Insulin sensitizers — how they work
Avandia contains an insulin-sensitizing drug called rosiglitazone maleate — a TZD. TZDs target a special "receptor site" at the center of certain cells. This decreases the cells' resistance to insulin and allows more sugar to enter. As more sugar enters the cells, sugar and insulin levels in the bloodstream drop. This results in lower blood sugar levels.



Avandia may be a good choice if:

Diet and exercise alone aren't giving you the blood sugar control you need.
A sulfonylurea (such as AmarylÆ [glimepiride, Aventis Pharmaceuticals] or Glucotrol XL® [glipizide, Pfizer Inc.]), metformin or insulin alone aren't giving you the blood sugar control you need.
You want to target insulin resistance, an underlying cause of type 2 diabetes.
You're looking for long-term blood sugar control.
You'd like a medication with convenient dosing options.
You should not take Avandia if:

You're allergic to rosiglitazone, or any of its components.
You have active liver disease.
You are in the later stages of heart failure (Class III or IV).
You experienced yellowing of the skin with REZULIN® (troglitazone, Parke-Davis).
You have type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis.
You have diabetic ketoacidosis.
In addition, when taking Avandia with a sulfonylurea or insulin, you may be at risk for low blood sugar. Ask your doctor whether you need to lower your sulfonylurea or insulin dose.


Bro this is a copy and paste becuase I have never used this drug. i have used metformin and can speak from experience. maybe someone else has some long term experience with this.


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Here's some interesting health info on avandia

Defective Drugs: Actos/Avandia (Generic name – Pioglitazone Hydrochloride)
September, 9 2003

Mayo Clinic Study Links Actos and Avandia to Heart Damage.

Actos and Avandia are oral antidiabetic agents that act primarily by decreasing insulin resistance. Pharmacological studies indicate that Actos improves sensitivity to insulin in muscle and adipose tissue and inhibits hepatic gluconeogenesis. Actos improves glycemic control while reducing circulating insulin levels. Pioglitazone belongs to a class of drugs called thiazolidinediones, which help lower blood sugar, or glucose, in people with type 2 diabetes mellitus.

Pioglitazone is the newest type of thiazolidinedione approved for use in the US. The drug company, Lilly, co-markets the drug with the maker, Takeda Pharmaceuticals North America. In 2000, the thiazolidinedione drug troglitazone (Rezulin) was taken off the market in the US and Europe after it was linked to dozens of deaths and cases of severe liver damage.

According to a report published in the March 19th issue of the Annals of Internal Medicine, a 49-year-old diabetic man taking Actos developed liver damage after taking the drug for 6 months. Blood tests excluded the possibility of a viral, metabolic, or autoimmune disorder, the authors state. Analysis of hepatic tissue revealed a mixed hepatocellular-cholestatic injury pattern consistent with drug toxicity. After discontinuing use of Actos, his liver returned to normal. Although this case does not prove that Actos was the cause, Dr. Louis D. May of Gastrointestinal Associates of Rockland in New City, New York, and colleagues suggest that patients treated with the medication should be monitored for evidence of hepatitis. "Physicians should be aware that this frequently prescribed agent is potentially hepatotoxic," Dr. May and colleagues write. “Careful monitoring for liver dysfunction, particularly during the first year of therapy, is warranted”, they add. The patient's initial symptoms included anorexia, nausea, and upper abdominal discomfort, as stated by the researchers. A few weeks later, he developed icteric sclera and acholic stools. The patient's hepatic function tests were severely abnormal.

In a similar case Dr. David W. Nierenberg, from Dartmouth Medical School in Hanover, New Hampshire, comments, "It now appears highly probable (but not definite) that pioglitazone can cause symptomatic, mild-to-moderate drug-induced hepatitis." He adds, “More patient data will need to be accumulated before the actual frequency of this reaction is known”.

A statement was issued by Takeda and Lilly, pointing out that any adverse events related to Actos use are reported to the FDA, and any cases involving questions of liver function are further evaluated by an independent panel of hepatologists. The statement continued, "To date, Actos has been prescribed to more than 2 million patients (12 million Rxs and over 1 million patient years of use) and the experience in regard to safety matches well with U.S. placebo-controlled clinical trials with Actos in which there was no evidence of drug-induced liver toxicity".

"Pending the availability of the results of additional large, long-term controlled clinical trials and additional, post-marketing safety data, current package labeling recommends that patients treated with Actos have their liver enzymes monitored at baseline, every 2 months for the first year and periodically thereafter. Actos should not be used in patients with active liver disease." Ann Intern Med 2002;136:449-452,480-483.

Actos Warning Label

http://www.actos.com/sub_sec2_safety.asp

The NY Times stated in May of 2000 that “Doctors warn patients taking new drugs Avandia and Actos, both approved last year for type 2 diabetes, should be monitored carefully for potential liver damage; similar drug Rezulin was taken off market by FDA”
 
"Avandia works to help overcome this insulin resistance by making the body's cells more sensitive to insulin."

Isnt this the main reason why we use Metformin?

From what Ive read glucophage has a main effect of reducing gluconeogenesis in the liver and only a secondary effect of increasing insulin sensitivity in peripheral tissues. Avandia's main mechanism is increasing insulin sensitivity, and is therefore a better chioce. Right?

Thanks
BB
 
According to literature its' more powerful than metformin than again so is phenformin, but than again that has horrible possible sides. I personally would go with metformin for safety reasons, but if pure result is what your after then phenformin or avandia is your best bet.
 
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