Mnay times, I feel like using with or without has little difference on whether or not the 'intense pump' from IGF-1LR3 is experienced, BUT I have always KNOWN that my pants fit an inch or two looser when not using creatine in conjunction with IGF etc.... so if you are close to summer, spring break etc. Stop creatine (if you can, some use it as part of PCT) approximately 7-10 days before showtime.