T
TheElmo
Guest
whom here stops taking their liver suppls after they are done with their cycles? Or do you keep taking them year long??
NEVER TAKE SILYMARIN. 
i used to take it with any oral, but get this: it actually fucks up your androgen receptors so the receptor/ligand bundle can't float to the nucleus and have the proper effect. it's being looked at as an anti-androgen. here's details:
there's persistant bullshit circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug. this is false. either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract
in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer. most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270
so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?
i found this study which has fascinating consequences:
http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399
a choice excerpt:
"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."
or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm. upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger". different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.
silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there.
i.e. all androgens, oral or injectable, will not work nearly as well. avoid silymarin, and please spread the word.
i used to take it with any oral, but get this: it actually fucks up your androgen receptors so the receptor/ligand bundle can't float to the nucleus and have the proper effect. it's being looked at as an anti-androgen. here's details:
there's persistant bullshit circulating stating that silymarin is bad to take along with orals because it increases the rate at which the liver metabolises the drug. this is false. either no effect or the opposite has been found with both alcohol and aspirin:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3398694&dopt=Abstract
in vitro evidence suggests that silymarin actually inhibits drug metabolism, causing steroids to circulate in the body longer. most steroid breakdown is done by the cyp3a4 enzyme, which is significantly(dose dependant, but at least a 65% slower rate) inhibited by silymarin:
http://dmd.aspetjournals.org/cgi/content/full/28/11/1270
so why have users reported decreased steroid effects when using silymarin when the opposite should be true?
i found this study which has fascinating consequences:
http://carcin.oupjournals.org/cgi/content/full/22/9/1399
a choice excerpt:
"SB decreased androgen-stimulated growth and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) levels in LNCaP cells (6). In this study, we further evaluated the effects of SM and SB on androgen action. We found that SM and SB down-regulate several androgen-regulated genes, including PSA, human glandular kallikrein (hK2) and an immunophilin, FKBP51, mainly by inhibiting the transactivation activity of the AR. More interestingly, we show that SM and SB can inhibit nuclear localization of the AR. Thus this report provides a novel mechanism by which SM and SB inhibit function of the AR."
or, in plain(er) english, when an androgen comes to a cell it passes through the cell membrane and binds to an androgen receptor in the cytoplasm. upon binding, the receptor/androgen bundle float to the nucleus to tell which tell the cell to alter its behaviour, i.e. in this case, "synthesize more protein and grow larger". different androgens probably relay different messages, which is why particular stacks seem to be more effective than others, despite all binding to the same receptor.
silymarin inhibits this either by preventing androgen/receptor bundles from ever reaching the nucleus, or by allowing the bundle to drift out of the nucleus easily once there.
i.e. all androgens, oral or injectable, will not work nearly as well. avoid silymarin, and please spread the word.
T
TheElmo
Guest
you wouldn't happen to be a Liv-52 rep would you?
Can't say that I agree with this bro, for as long as I can remember even before Liv-52 everyone that knew about Milk thistle took it with their gear. Never did I hear of anyone one not having good or as good effects while using Salymarin.
Can't say that I agree with this bro, for as long as I can remember even before Liv-52 everyone that knew about Milk thistle took it with their gear. Never did I hear of anyone one not having good or as good effects while using Salymarin.
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