MC Femera AKA Genesis

For those that have wondered about MC's Femera, I have to say that it has been great for me. I had experienced a bit of soreness and lactation from my last cycle of M1T, and four days after taking the Femera, the symptoms I was experiencing are all gone. MC's stuff is the real thing, and you can't go wrong with the price.

I'm not a mod either so it isn't like I get anything from saying this either. MC Rocks! :thumbsup:

basically femara is an aromitase inhibitor....unlike nolva or clomid in the ways they bind to the receptor to prevent aromatizing actions...femara instead has the ability to literally stop estrogenic sides from occuring by eliminating aromitization from the very beginning...there for it is a very good anti estrogen!!!lol!

no its not a replacement for any of the above...maybe nolva...clomid and HCG are neccesary for getting the boys back to action bro....but it can be taken during the cycle and does a good job at keeping the nipples unswole while you get swole! Its called aqua-fem on the MC supps page...awesome price bro....and TK...we dont get any kickbacks or anything either bro....if so i would pimping the shit out of their products....cause im broke!!!! but its a good product and you cant go wrong without it

gratuitous reposting of my own information:

it's cheap, and there's not much risk erring on the side of taking too much, although nolvadex has been demonstrated to have effects on vision similar to clomid's:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10707134&dopt=Abstract
http://bjo.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/88/1/125

it's well-known that formation of gynecomastia seems to depend on estrogen to testosterone ratios rather than on the absolute amount of estrogen:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1163504&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2137877&dopt=Abstract

you can't get worse ratios than patients being treated with powerful anti-androgens. this closely correlates to post-cycle gyno conditions, where there is too much estrogen and not enough androgen. this study finds anastrozole(femara/arimidex style) doesn't work for prevention of post-cycle gyno -- well, duuh -- but furthermore, doses of 10mg of nolva are often sufficient, while up to 30mg may be necessary for extremely poor responders.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9426725&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9426725&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14759718&dopt=Abstract

for post-cycle HPTA use, the best study available on the subject suggests that even 5mg/day is plenty:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3931502&dopt=Abstract

"No statistically significant difference was found between the two subgroups of patients treated with either the lower (5 or 10 mg once daily) or higher dose of tamoxifen (10 mg twice daily) with respect to basal or LHRH stimulated gonadotropin and testosterone response or the E2/T ratio..."

as far as gyno, fat gain, or estrogenic water during cycles goes, nolvadex is poorly suited. nolvadex is a so-called SERM, meaning it has estrogenic activity at many types of tissue, which happens to include fat cells:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9010344&dopt=Abstract
http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/264/6/R1219

an aromatase inhibitor such as arimidex is a better choice, and is plenty effective against gyno in this situation:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/9/4428

given the superphysiological amount of testosterone and the presumable use of hcg, you'll still have enough estrogen washing around for its beneficial effects on lipids and bone content.

to recap; for post-cycle use, tamoxifen is the best drug we have available. 10-20mg/day of tamoxifen is sufficient for HPTA recovery and gynecomastia prevention, if not excessive. during cycles arimidex is a better choice, but if it's too expensive or not available, nolvadex will help prevent gyno at low doses, but can do nothing for fat gain. the risks of excess tamoxifen are small, including vision damage, but i hate using more drugs at higher doses than necessary.

but there's more bad news on the use of tamoxifen: it will reduce your circulating IGF-I levels. how much? 17% at 5-10mg/day, 47% at 20mg/day. this doesn't even take into account that it separately increases some binding protein levels.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11759825
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9758441

"Estrogens and the selective estrogen receptor modulator tamoxifen have been used previously to suppress circulating IGF-I levels in patients with acromegaly."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...ve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15223841

much of tamoxifen's action on breast cancer looks like it's mediated through this effect. interestingly, GH levels don't change, so this means that if you're shooting GH and running nolva, your circulating IGF-I levels will still be severely suppressed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=9364247

nolvadex also increases your levels of SHBG.

aromatase inhibitors are apparently themselves inhibited by nolvadex to some degree, but not vice versa. really weird pharmacokinetics and i couldn't explain why. some others have found nolvadex clearance increases -- i.e. lasts less in the body -- but this more recent study contradicts them. go figure.

http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/5/9/2338
http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/full/5/7/1642

you could use both at once but would have to up the dose of letrozole/arimidex to compensate for this effect.

also, the doses of femara we're taking are probably way too high. 0.5mg/day provides similar suppression as compared to 2.5mg -- virtually complete-- although researchers found additional suppression all the way up to 30mg/day. the curve really flattens out, though.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8345034

should save some money...

I have nothing but recomdations for fem.....I used to be an a-dex guy but with higher doses of test and dbol I was develping gyno with 1mg+ of adex ED. I take 2.5 fem ED with 150 prop ED and haven't had a problem yet and I'm days away from finishing. Good stuff

"but there's more bad news on the use of tamoxifen: it will reduce your circulating IGF-I levels."

If you were supplementing your igf levels at the same time, would this irradicate this problem or is the action of the igf affected also?

Hurilla said:

"but there's more bad news on the use of tamoxifen: it will reduce your circulating IGF-I levels."

If you were supplementing your igf levels at the same time, would this irradicate this problem or is the action of the igf affected also?

Click to expand...

it would definitely help, yeah. if you were supplementing gh it'd still be affected since it's apparently the step at the liver that gets messed up rather than the generation of GH in the first place.

bump it up

definitely bump this. got some a couple weeks ago from the old mc store, knocked it out fast, woke up on day 4 and no more soreness. first time i ever got anti e's from other than the doc, very happy with prices, well they went up like 5 bucks but its still a freaking bargain.

Femara and Formestane are the best anti-estrogens on the market, and both have the added bonus of boosts in IGF-1 levels. And no I wouldn't be using an anti-estrogen for PCT, I've heard of guys getting gyno after using an ant-e for pct then once they go off the estrogen rebounds and before they know it they are winning wet t-shirt contests, lol.

1500Iu's of HCG every 10 days, and yes you should use Nolvadex for PCT. But only use Femara while on cycle, it should keep estrogen in check, and I think Nolvadex would be better for getting rid of the puffy nipples, although many have said the same about Femara.

no no, you *would* use nolva for pct. one of the studies i pointed to demonstrated that an aromatase inhibitor like femara is insufficient for gyno prevention when administering flutamide, an anti-androgen. to which i say, "duh." when you have no androgens in your body, like post-cycle, inhibition of aromatase won't get your ratio back to a non-wet-t-shirt level.

i MUCH prefer the use of hcg throughout the cycle rather than after. testicular cells begin to die after 4 days in the absence of LH. when they regrow they regrow poorly in strange locations and structures and each subsequent regrowth is worse. hcg prevents this apoptosis(death).

i used just nolva for pct after a 13week cycle that included tren and 1-test cyp, m1t for parts of the cycle. my total test in begining of cycle was 180. after 5 weeks of nolva therapy my total test was 611. i would say nolve works very well in restoring test levels.

bump

Marble said:

no no, you *would* use nolva for pct. one of the studies i pointed to demonstrated that an aromatase inhibitor like femara is insufficient for gyno prevention when administering flutamide, an anti-androgen. to which i say, "duh." when you have no androgens in your body, like post-cycle, inhibition of aromatase won't get your ratio back to a non-wet-t-shirt level.

i MUCH prefer the use of hcg throughout the cycle rather than after. testicular cells begin to die after 4 days in the absence of LH. when they regrow they regrow poorly in strange locations and structures and each subsequent regrowth is worse. hcg prevents this apoptosis(death).

Click to expand...

what type of hcg dosing and shootin program would you recommend on cycle? i have been doing some reading and speaking with a few docs about it but want to hear as many opinions as possible on it...

body2see said:

So wait, why now is everyone saying they wouldnt use nolva for PCT?? If not then what would you use, and I hear everyone saying they wont even use HCG??? And no precise doses, some people say 2500iu once per week, 1250 EOD, 1250 ED....I for one am now confused....can someone set the record straight, that truly knows what they are talking about?

Click to expand...

Wow, Long Post. I know there is a lot of confusion out there. You can ask 100 people what Proper PCT should be and you will get 100 different answers.

Your best bet is to research around and find out what each drug is used for. Find out what other people are doing for PCT that are running the same gear you are. Then create your own PCT schedule based on what you think will work well for what you want to do. Then modify it with your own experience as you learn how they affect your body.

Good Luck Bro'

run femara @ 2.5mg eod or e3d throughout the cycle...run nolva @ 40-50mg ed for 2 weeks post cycle then lower it to 20mg for an additional 2 weeks.

I've never used HCG, but I think you would want to take it about half way through your cycle at 500iu ed for 5 days or so. Bump for more info...

Also there is a wealth of information on this board....the search function works wonderfully as most of these questions have been asked before in the past.

bump

Just read a good article by Par Deus, he suggest the following:

Week 1 5000iu's HCG 20mg nolvadex
Week 2 5000iu's HCG 20mg nolvadex
Week 3 2500iu's HCG 20mg nolvadex
Week 4 20mg Nolvadex
Week 5 20mg Nolvadex
Week 6 20mg Nolvadex

I'll post the article soon.