Deca and Tren together

I have a friend who has been taking 500 mg sust, 400 mg tren and 500 mg primo a week. Good results in strength, some weight lost, and few sides.

Any more tren or test and he gets a lot of acne (even with 'tane)

The probelm is that he still has some joint pain.

What is a good dose of deca to add just for this reason? I would normally go with 200 mg, but I am afraid of the tren and deca causing deca dick. Or gyno (though he is not gyno prone). I also don't want to lower the tren dose since things are doing so well right now.

Deca and tren are really similar in chemical structure and i cannot say that i have ever heard of anyone taking both simultaneously. Is he taking glucosamine with MSM. THat always helps me when my joints act up while on winny, also he could try upping his water intake considerably....that helps some people.

The joint pain is more like tendonitus. He has taken glucosamine before and it helps with the knees, but not his elbows. But it is certainly worth a shot.

I was kinda thinking that 100 mg of deca would still keep the deca+tren so it is not more than the total amount of test. Maybe with proviron, he could go up to 200 mg of deca.

i know that chemically they are similiar but I've read recently on another board that they actually complement each other nicely and aren't redundant because they are different enough. Hey when it comes down to it we're really only2 chromosomes away from being monkeys...

I would run 200mg weekly, and definately watch the joints...

get the proviron and what Will said 200mg or 300mg what ever you can get your hands on

Youll be fine running 200 a week definitly. About a year ago i ran a SHIC with test prop, tren acetate and fast acting deca and i got GREAT results and had zero joint problems. I put on 12 lbs in 30 days, kept 9 and my strength went through the friggen roof. I loved it!

I thought running deca and tren together was a surefire way to get progesterone gyno?

Is there any documentation on tren or deca causing Progesterone gyno? I've come across this at another site:

I would like to clear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.