MC IGF and surgery

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I broke my ankle (tibia & fibula). It took two surgeries to repair. You guys suggested using the IGF to help the healing process. Im only using it sub q at the moment. Im having trouble with cramps and spasms in my injured leg. Therefore, im afraid to apply to my injured leg. My question is this, am I getting any healing benefits applying sub q? Or should I suck it up, and start high, like in my quads and work my way down? It's still painful at times and im afraid the pump will feel like cramps.

You get many benefits sub q...Many people will argue whether subq versus IM, which is better...I will tell you from past experiences it is going to work either way...

IGF is widely "believed" to cause cells to split and duplicate and volumization of the cell, should you apply it to the muscle (IM application) i.e the reason many people believe that size gains stay with them, or they see pretty instant "site enhancement".

Either way, it should indeed speed healing time, if you are already having issues from the surgery, you probably don't wanna be going IM, because internally you may not be healed and anytime you enter an area subq or IM there is risk of infection, subq being a lesser risk...

On that note, I'd say go with SubQ...

^^ bump for other opinions ^^

I would go no where near the surgery spot. You don't want to run the risk of getting an infection or anything from something that could've been avoided

Patience old grasshopper..lay off the igf till a few months and stay with that deca plan..and Wv is right . infection isn't needed unless you wana be peg leg..

Thanks guys

some quick points on the long term recovery of Pilon Fractures....

Depending upon your job or recreational activities, there is up to a 90% chance that you can return to your preinjury activity level. However, if you have a demanding manual labor job or enjoy high-impact recreational activities, you may need to consider changing professions or limiting your activities.
Patients who enjoy high-impact activities, like sports, usually do not resume them until a minimum of 6 months after surgery or injury. If you have a manual labor job, you will typically need 4 to 6 months of rehabilitation before going back on full duty at work.
It is common to limp for several months after your injury because of stiffness, discomfort, and weakness. Studies have shown that people with pilon injuries often continue to improve for up to 2 years after injury. Typically after the two year mark you're about as good as you're going to get.
Arthritits between the distal tibia and the talus is fairly common and usually will continue to worsen with age....IGF may help you with the development of new chondrocytes and allow for new articular cartilage formation, slowing the process of arthritis.

^^^That would scare me

^^^ that's a tough break..

Jpotch said:

some quick points on the long term recovery of Pilon Fractures....

Depending upon your job or recreational activities, there is up to a 90% chance that you can return to your preinjury activity level. However, if you have a demanding manual labor job or enjoy high-impact recreational activities, you may need to consider changing professions or limiting your activities.
Patients who enjoy high-impact activities, like sports, usually do not resume them until a minimum of 6 months after surgery or injury. If you have a manual labor job, you will typically need 4 to 6 months of rehabilitation before going back on full duty at work.
It is common to limp for several months after your injury because of stiffness, discomfort, and weakness. Studies have shown that people with pilon injuries often continue to improve for up to 2 years after injury. Typically after the two year mark you're about as good as you're going to get.
Arthritits between the distal tibia and the talus is fairly common and usually will continue to worsen with age....IGF may help you with the development of new chondrocytes and allow for new articular cartilage formation, slowing the process of arthritis.

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That's exactly what my doc told me. Will I get the benefits from the IGF sub q? Or do I have to apply in the injured leg? Btw, I run a machine shop, requiring me to be on my feet all day. Im going to get a knee scooter to help with this. I know my mountain biking, skiing, and motocross days are over. Thanks for your input.

tripwire said:

That's exactly what my doc told me. Will I get the benefits from the IGF sub q? Or do I have to apply in the injured leg? Btw, I run a machine shop, requiring me to be on my feet all day. Im going to get a knee scooter to help with this. I know my mountain biking, skiing, and motocross days are over. Thanks for your input.

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Not to be rude at all, but we did answer this for you. You absolutely will get very good benefits from using IGF or HGH applied SUB Q..no questions asked

hopefully this isnt considered thread-jacking. Im thinking more elaborating.. but is there a "best" spot to sub Q for best results? I'm thinking in the abs/stomach area.

forgive my ignorance, the thought just popped in my head as I was reading.

WesleyInman said:

Not to be rude at all, but we did answer this for you. You absolutely will get very good benefits from using IGF or HGH applied SUB Q..no questions asked

Click to expand...

Sorry, yes you did answer my question. I will apply sub q to the abs, thanks for your input.

tripwire said:

Sorry, yes you did answer my question. I will apply sub q to the abs, thanks for your input.

Click to expand...

How's your recovery coming aling bro?

Yeah brutha? Howz it goin??

The Dude said:

How's your recovery coming aling bro?

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Thanks for asking. Slow, but its healing just like the doc said it would. I have a removable cast on it now. Its kind of like a boot, but i cant walk on it for another 3 months. It will be another 5 months before i can walk un assisted.
I took the advice you guys gave me, im doing deca for bone healing and joint support, some test ofcourse, and im doing MC IGF sub q to help as well.
I had to bail on my gym membership because i have no income at the moment. But im doing as much upper body stuff as i can with the eqipment i have at home.

Great to hear. Sounds like you are progressing as expected.
I just read an interesting article today in The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery on the effects of IGF on bone reformation after injury and surgery. I'll try to get it up on here tomorrow if i have time. Great article and it really shows the benefits if IGF on healing time.

Great to hear. Sounds like you are progressing as expected.
I just read an interesting article today in The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery on the effects of IGF on bone reformation after injury and surgery. I'll try to get it up on here tomorrow if i have time. Great article and it really shows the benefits if IGF on healing time.

Jpotch said:

Great to hear. Sounds like you are progressing as expected.
I just read an interesting article today in The Journal of Bone and Joint Surgery on the effects of IGF on bone reformation after injury and surgery. I'll try to get it up on here tomorrow if i have time. Great article and it really shows the benefits if IGF on healing time.

Click to expand...

Great, thanks, i will be looking for it.

ok well here is the abstract from the article....to get a copy of the entire article online its like $30 so if you want you can check it out at pubmed...basically they found two things, #1 IGF and HGH dramatically increase the body's ability to heal bone injuries following surgical intervention, and #2 the HGH or IGF does not have to be locally infused into the injured area to achieve this result....
the xrays in the article comparing the bones which were not treated with IGF/HGH compared to the ones that were treated show a pretty dramatic difference in my opinion

Growth hormone stimulates bone healing in a critical-sized bone defect model.

Theyse LF, Oosterlaken-Dijksterhuis MA, van Doorn J, Dhert WJ, Hazewinkel HA.
Source

Department of Clinical Sciences of Companion Animals, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, Utrecht University, Utrecht, The Netherlands. [email protected]

Abstract

Growth hormone plays an important role in bone metabolism. Treating bone deficits is a major topic in orthopaedic surgery. Our hypothesis was that local continuous growth hormone administration stimulates bone healing in a canine critical-sized bone defect model. Bone formation in the defects was quantified using densitometric image analysis and histomorphometry. After growth hormone treatment, expression levels of insulin-like growth factors-I and II, and growth hormone receptor were determined in the bone regenerate of the original defects. Circulating plasma concentrations of insulin-like growth factors-I and II, and insulin- like growth factor binding proteins-4, and 6 were measured during treatment. Growth hormone administration resulted in healing of bone defects but without an additional effect of local infusion. Expression of insulin-like growth factor-I in the bone regenerate was lower in the growth hormone-treated dogs, whereas insulin-like growth factor-II and growth hormone receptor expression were not increased. Growth hormone increased circulating insulin-like growth factor-I and growth factor-II plasma concentrations. Continuous infusion of growth hormone stimulated bone healing in a canine critical-sized bone defect model. Local delivery of growth hormone did not additionally enhance bone healing. Increased circulating plasma concentrations of insulin-like growth factors-I and II most likely induced bone formation.

Thanks! Thats good stuff. Im glad to see application does not have to be localized, like wesleyinman said.