13 weeks ... Go big or go home... this is it.. help is nice

objective To maintain gains and mass. Little or No side effects if efforts to offcycle right for a second cycle .. preferably surpass 200 lbs and be 200lbs after pct. Little Water retention is understanble no desire for 6 pack favorite features massive traps lats and back straps.

current stats age 28 white male of german decent.just under 5'11 at 188lbs. no anabolics benching 245for 4x8
Leg press 500 4x8. Clean 20 pull ups running 7 minute mile comfortably

last injection dec 25, 2013 off cycle with novadex, clomid , herbal test booster axis HT (BSN)
LAST STATS bench 275-4x8. Leg press 645- 4x8
Dead lift 135-4x8 power clean 135-4x8 pullup 12 - 4x10

Prior cycle 2 years ago first cycle deca &little test 8 wk
Second cycle year half ago deca test 400/400 8 wk off cycle clomid hebal test
3rd cycle oct -dec 2013 -12 week
First month
400 deca wk pyramid up
500 test wk pyramid up
Dbol 20 mg a day
Novadex 20 a day

Second month
400 deca wk
1000 test wk
40 mg dbol
20 mg novadex

3rd month
350 deca wk pyramid down
500 test wk pyramid down
Dbol 20 mg pyramid down
Novadex 20 mg day

Off cycle
clomid novadex 1 month
Novadex 2 more weeks and hebal test booster for 1 month after

Contant supplements
Muti vitamin
Milk thisle
Krill oil
Glucosamine
Protein powder with BCAA
Creatine almost always 1 month on 1 month off



NEW CYCLE AND TRAINING PLAN




HAD TO REVISE THIS FOR MORE DETAIL people wanted... peoples advise is much help I don't know it all but im not new to the gear game either.. I think im on my 4th cycle now off and on with to much .. and I want to step it up a bit. and adding options/opinions/thoughts /questions even and advice too .. so here is the plan. Try to be detailed without writing a book.
Overview
Were going with deca,test cypo, dbol, oxymetholone and proviron .. with novadex morning and evening 10mg every day of for about 13 weeks. Test and deca all 13 weeks for most part with oxy and dbol in beginning for 8 weeks each and proviron for last 8 weeks with a mid point peak of all at once doses are only normal not extreme.Proviron seems like a good call right before off cycle and to help body butncorrect me if im wrong or I can do something better I have questions at the end on off cycle.

Other supplements to note durring training
N.O. explode and nitrix creatine for 1 month then one month off
Milk thistle
Glucosamine
Krill oil
Muti vitamin


Week 1
Dbol 40mg 20mg- 2 hours before workout about 3 hours after
Deca 400mg shots are split and never 2 on one day
Test cypo 700
Oxymetholone 20mg every day
Novadex 10mg morning


Week2-10 week 5 Proviron start till week13 50MG ed
Dbol 40mg wk 8 stop
Deca 400mg
Test 1000mg
Oxymetholone 20-40mg daily raises wk8 stop
Novadex 20 mg daily morning and night

Week 11
Deca 400mg
Test 1000 mg
proviron 50 mg daily
Novadex 20mg morning and night

Week12
Test 500mg
Proviron 75mg daily
Novadex 20 mg morning and night

Week 13 better safe than sorry I know its all still in my system continuing and doing pct for 6 weeks
Proviron 100 mg daily
Armidex .5 every other day
Clomid 50mg every day 1 wk pyramid down
Novadex 30mg ed
Herbal test booster axis ht

DIET.
PRIMARY PLAN mix of .......
Eggs pasta chicken mash frosted mini wheats potatoes steak bagels/cream cheese. bacon rice pizza and burgers in in the mornings along with vitamins

Snacking is done on cashews ..boiled eggs dash salt.. beef jerky cliff bars avocados dash salt pepper bagel cream cheese

Lunch primary chicken steak rice pasta greek yogart banana with peanut butter beef jerky .. 1 can of tuna a week. At work.... workout after work

After workout shake
Version 1- high calorie mass gainer with BCAA cottage cheese, 1 raw egg ,1 scoop peanut butter, 1 scoop ice cream chocolate, splash milk 3 ice cubes and blend

Version 2 . 2 raw egg.2 good scoops cottage cheese .Fresh Raspberrys.. blue berries. Blackberrys 1 cup total. 1 scoop ice cream vinalla. 3 ice cubes splash milk blend... vinallia or decent protien powder non chocolate

Dinner before bed chicken breast.. salad.. bagel toast.. pasta Along with shake maybe glass or 2 of wine before bed... I need to stop that I know.. I eat healthy when I go out for food as well and normally cheating with glass of wine with food or martini and whenever or whatever meal ot is I eat till it hurts for the most part I stuff myself


Training is easy to say ... I work 12 hours a day 6 days a week so I workout after work normally I wold ib the morning when t levels are higher but its hard to do.. my basics is I eat 2 hours prior snack light along with injection .. 1 hour prior maybe sip a little protien shake maybe injection if I was at work before that and stack dbol .oxy...but just a few swigs of shake seriously.. preworkout shake 30 mins prior NO EXPLODE

Gym is done with 5 min stretch. . 3 min power walk.. few more streches with light warm up with power lift.. light weight..always do power lift in the beginning of training most exercises are done with 4 sets of 8 to 10 progressive weight each week .. usually 4 or 5 set dobe with drop sets done to muscle failure. 5 min cool dowb and streching to end session last 1 to 1 and half hours

So questions ... is this a decent way and healthy way to off cycle for say 8 weeks. Is there anythibg I could do better on or off cycle.. pct... diet... dosage amounts or questions you have for me or advice is welcomed I took some time to write this .. I thank you for reading it and any input or questions you have I would love to discuss I start cycle I. 2 weeks this is most I have ever done... want to do it right ..safe... get good gains that stay and off cycle right And do another cycle right after but smaller to make it stay on

Before last cycle 167lbs
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Sounds like you want mass. With those strong German genes you should do well with lots of deads, squats, military presses from the rack, bench and power cleans. Those will combine to give thickness and well developed traps and back and overall thickness.

Before last cycle 167lbs
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Deca test dbol 12 weeks 195 lbs

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I should focus more on that your right... I want bigger

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I want bigger hope this works better this cycle and new plan of attack

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very detailed i will say....

for the gear i think personally you are running a bit high on the test dosage. 4
i wouldnt take dbol and anadrol together that will kill your liver in addition imo its not needed.

i would take dbol for about 4-5 weeks at the start and then stop that,
i think you honestly could do your test at about 4-500 a week and your deca at 400 and be fine. maybe you should try something like eq just to see how it is for you.

you need to eat more food to gain weight, period. eat more...

train heavy with the basic lifts and try to bump your reps up a little bit shoot for 8 or so, i think you are missing out by doing only 4 reps, the time under tension is not there.

PCT
get HCG that will blow your herbal stuff out of the water and you can run it simultaneously with your gear to keep your natural test levels up and make an easier transition off everything.

Too much down time between training and cycle got me I think... or there my excuses

It was 4 sets of eight... I did think it was a little much when they would all be in my system at once for a few weeks

csuperman said:

very detailed i will say....

for the gear i think personally you are running a bit high on the test dosage. 4
i wouldnt take dbol and anadrol together that will kill your liver in addition imo its not needed.

i would take dbol for about 4-5 weeks at the start and then stop that,
i think you honestly could do your test at about 4-500 a week and your deca at 400 and be fine. maybe you should try something like eq just to see how it is for you.

you need to eat more food to gain weight, period. eat more...

train heavy with the basic lifts and try to bump your reps up a little bit shoot for 8 or so, i think you are missing out by doing only 4 reps, the time under tension is not there.

PCT
get HCG that will blow your herbal stuff out of the water and you can run it simultaneously with your gear to keep your natural test levels up and make an easier transition off everything.

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You look like you have a hell of a metabolism man. Eat more. Less testosterone for sure maybe a little more deca. Save that money and add in IGF. Theres more than just deca. Eq will help alot with appetite.

So maybe like 6 weeks dbol then do 6 weeks oxy woth the proviron as well do both in late cycle would not be bad

2 people say less test ... so ill go down to 700mg.. I want bigger... I do have a good metabolism .. and a phyical job... I try to eat tons...so I will eat more... and do the oxy first for 7 weeks then stop and go to dbol and proviron for the last 6 weeks..with a few days of them over lapping is all just to see what its like

Cadaverousbloom said:

So maybe like 6 weeks dbol then do 6 weeks oxy woth the proviron as well do both in late cycle would not be bad

Click to expand...

Also since your test is so high you have to run so much ai or serm it is interfering with your gains not to mention wreaking havoc on your prostate, and ldl/hdl levels. There is a reason why Nolva is PCT. It interferes or can reduce IGF and reduces a very high % of estrogen that can be beneficial. So your dose of Test is actually causing a problem and hindering your gains. Drop the test below 500 like closer to 400, keep the deca around 400 and add in EQ at like 800mg-1200mg/week. It's cheap and effective. Eq will help you eat like a horse, help keep you in a positive nitrogen balance, hardly aromatises, and gives better endurance for lifting more. Win Win. And 40mg of dbol is like the ceiling. And after 4 weeks it will most likely run it's course for gains and liver values. A lot going on here. You might be at a deca wall soon here too. Gotta change up the compounds man. Or AT LEAST the ester. You'd probably benefit from even running NPP instead just for a different ester of nandrolone. Oh and if Go Big or Go home was the title of my cycle, it would have Trenbolone in it. Research IGF for sure.

:bench::bber:

What i have to deal with or that is on the way or I alrdy have is 8 weeks worth of dbol ..100 tabs proviron.. 2 vials of deca... 100 tabs of oxymetholone. . Nova... clomid... 4 vials test cypo. .. thats to make this cycle takes me 3 weeks to make a change order so I have to build with this go for tren next time and start with something I have never done before.... do anabolics worth differently for some people. . And I was always told and tought you always run more test than deca.... or for bedroom reasons too

Makes me feel bad about my choice... the proviron was a mistake by the way ..but stuck with it.... how would you run what I got to get the most it strech out the test to 14 weeks

raysd21 said:

Also since your test is so high you have to run so much ai or serm it is interfering with your gains not to mention wreaking havoc on your prostate, and ldl/hdl levels. There is a reason why Nolva is PCT. It interferes or can reduce IGF and reduces a very high % of estrogen that can be beneficial. So your dose of Test is actually causing a problem and hindering your gains. Drop the test below 500 like closer to 400, keep the deca around 400 and add in EQ at like 800mg-1200mg/week. It's cheap and effective. Eq will help you eat like a horse, help keep you in a positive nitrogen balance, hardly aromatises, and gives better endurance for lifting more. Win Win. And 40mg of dbol is like the ceiling. And after 4 weeks it will most likely run it's course for gains and liver values. A lot going on here. You might be at a deca wall soon here too. Gotta change up the compounds man. Or AT LEAST the ester. You'd probably benefit from even running NPP instead just for a different ester of nandrolone. Oh and if Go Big or Go home was the title of my cycle, it would have Trenbolone in it. Research IGF for sure.

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How long do you prefer run dbol in dose like 40-50mg?

Whatever I'm just trying to give you ideas for the future. I'm just telling you your receptors get used to or saturated with the same shit. Even if you run test cypionate all the time. Running test enanthate will make a difference. I'm not that experienced with orals. I don't take them cause I used to drink alot. I am going to take something from one of our sponsors cyber supplements called aquaplex though. It's supposed to be right in between anadrol and dbol. It is a methylated liquid oral. If you want to do 8 weeks straight.... do dbol for 4 then the abombs. Or take 4 weeks off and finish with the drol. But no one I mean no one on this board is going to recommend taking dbol for longer than 4 weeks, some will not take longer than 10 days. Most people just use orals the first 2-3 weeks especially with Deca since it takes like...3 weeks for deca to kick in. So with the cypionate you are basically running off dbol alone for the first 2-3 weeks with no test. It's wasted time. You could kickstart with test propionate during that time too. Then save the rest of the test P for the end cause it takes forever like another 3 weeks for deca and 2 weeks for Test cyp to clear your system before you can start pct properly. Deca is great but in a 12 week cycle you have 5 weeks of lag time and 7 weeks of optimum blood levels.

Read the posts in this thread by Mrbigz it will help. http://www.musclechemistry.com/upload/general-conversation/71146-total-newbie-i-need-help.html

How long do you prefer run dbol in dose like 40-50mg?

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I ran it when I was younger. I haven't ran it in a while. I would go by my liver values. Or pay really close attention to how I feel and eat really fucking clean. Processed carbs and saturated fat put extra stress on the liver also.

I got you..... well thisbis test cypo... last timebi ran test Eth... so im doing ok.. ill drop to 4 weeks with the dbol and save my liver a bit for the oxymetholone after.. say 5 weeks ..followed by proviron.. sound a little better.. I know what your saying with test prop... I knew too do that and forgot to.. soo ill be just running off dbol for 2-3 weeks dbol and novadex... ut I was thinking drol first ... then dbol or no

Run arimidex instead of nolvadex you won't get the IGF supression.

-GH / IGF-1 suppression is not characteristic of all Anti-E's. In fact, the reason Nolva suppresses IGF-1 is not because of its anti-estrogenic effect--it's because of its ESTROGENIC effect peripherally in the liver.

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As far as starting with adrol and finishing with dbol. That's almost like a toss up but adrol will give you a little more bang and more bloat. I'm curious if you got any side effects from your previous cycles of dbol? Back Pumps? anything? Dbol is faked quite a bit and underdosed.

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Proviron is the best mistake you've ever made.
Drop the test to 400 after maybe 700 for the first shot.
First shot of Deca do the same and then drop the dose to 300 - 400.Buy some NPP and add in 100mg EOD. Do whatever you're going to do with the other orals, they don't work for me. Proviron is awesome so I'd only do that to keep liver enzymes reasonable.
DIET.... 1 1/2lbs of lean ground beef per day. You want muscle? Forget all the magazine crap and go basic. Eat your pasta, breads, and chicken, but the beef has to be there.
If the dead lift poundage you posted is legit then you need to really focus on that. There has never been a big dude that couldn't deadlift big weight.
Don't get so caught up in the drugs... Little test, Deca, and Proviron. Now if you want REAL changes as well as recovery ability get rid of the leftovers and get some MC IGF. That WILL change your physique...
You can figure this stuff out the hard way over years and years or go with my 22 years of experiments.. I've done it all..
That's not bragging. I've done some dumb shit, spent a lot of money and risked my health at times. I've pretty much done it all


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