Thinking about blasting and cruising

Long story short, after two cycles, both with PCT and the second with HCG my natural production hasn't totally recovered. I got a blood test before the last cycle a year ago and had a test level of 800, didn't feel amazing then but functional. After that 12 week cycle of test only my test level has been around 600 ever since. My mood isn't great, no real sex drive, weak in the gym, etc.

So, one or two more cycles and I'll probably have no choice but TRT, self-prescribed or otherwise. But of course, I want to keep cycling. So I'm considering blast and cruise. I'll be monitoring my bloodwork and won't be starting with anything crazy, but it looks like my boys just don't bounce back from juice and it's going to be all or nothing.

So for those who never come off, things to know about it? Regrets? Challenges?

A few things to know , that total test number isn't really the one that matters it's your free test number that really matters on energy ,recovery etc. 600 isn't that bad but your free test could be crap that's why I went on.I don't mind needles at all but I really get tired on pinning all the damn time and keeping up with my protocol endlessly but other than that trt is a great thing, I'm healthy,happier,and no more motivation or energy problems.

No regrets except wAllets gets lighter

AON1 said:

A few things to know , that total test number isn't really the one that matters it's your free test number that really matters on energy ,recovery etc. 600 isn't that bad but your free test could be crap that's why I went on.I don't mind needles at all but I really get tired on pinning all the damn time and keeping up with my protocol endlessly but other than that trt is a great thing, I'm healthy,happier,and no more motivation or energy problems.

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I hadn't thought about free t. I'm Also taking adex for e2. Apparently, adex will lower SHBG which will lower total test but should increase free test...

I'll read some more on that, but my e2 was high before the adex and I felt worse, so losing it isn't an option.

how old are you?

3J said:

how old are you?

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Thirty one

With a total test level of 600 you'll be hard pressed to find a doc to prescribe for you, regardless of your free test level. A on is right that free test matters, but total test is important, of course. Whether or not you are prescribed TRT depends on who you see about it, how they perceive the issue and feel about it, and how you present your symptoms.

I've been on TRT for about 4 years, and I agree with AON that constant pinning is a pain in the ass - no pun intended - but my only real regret is not getting better educated about it before I started.

I would advise you to read all you can on the subject, I learned a HELL of a lot more here about hormones, what does what, what reacts with what, etc, here than I did from any of the various docs I've seen.

JEFF! said:

Long story short, after two cycles, both with PCT and the second with HCG my natural production hasn't totally recovered. I got a blood test before the last cycle a year ago and had a test level of 800, didn't feel amazing then but functional. After that 12 week cycle of test only my test level has been around 600 ever since. My mood isn't great, no real sex drive, weak in the gym, etc.

So, one or two more cycles and I'll probably have no choice but TRT, self-prescribed or otherwise. But of course, I want to keep cycling. So I'm considering blast and cruise. I'll be monitoring my bloodwork and won't be starting with anything crazy, but it looks like my boys just don't bounce back from juice and it's going to be all or nothing.

So for those who never come off, things to know about it? Regrets? Challenges?

Click to expand...

What did your pct look like. I noticed when I started doing lots of Hcg the last couple weeks of cycle and a week after my boys bounced back quick! Hcg is the key! Although clomid and Nolva should be used as well.

As far as blasting and cruising it's all personal choice. Like said above the worst part is a lighter wallet. Pinning once a week is no big deal. I was on over a year and came off for a couple months at the beginning of the year. I bounced back no problem. However you will loose some gains and fat control is much harder! For these reasons I may not come off again unless I want another kid.

I am 31 and considering cruising after this cycle. I say do it but have tons of HCG and ancillaries on hand at all times, at least that is my plan. Also homebrew keeps it very affordable...

EMW14 said:

With a total test level of 600 you'll be hard pressed to find a doc to prescribe for you, regardless of your free test level. A on is right that free test matters, but total test is important, of course. Whether or not you are prescribed TRT depends on who you see about it, how they perceive the issue and feel about it, and how you present your symptoms.

I've been on TRT for about 4 years, and I agree with AON that constant pinning is a pain in the ass - no pun intended - but my only real regret is not getting better educated about it before I started.

I would advise you to read all you can on the subject, I learned a HELL of a lot more here about hormones, what does what, what reacts with what, etc, here than I did from any of the various docs I've seen.

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Yeah, I know doctors wouldn't be any help at this point. My doctor asked me was I using steroids. I told him no, half-truth. But he will figure it out when he runs my blood work and I have no LH. Don't know how that conversation will go.

DefMetalLifter said:

What did your pct look like. I noticed when I started doing lots of Hcg the last couple weeks of cycle and a week after my boys bounced back quick! Hcg is the key! Although clomid and Nolva should be used as well.

As far as blasting and cruising it's all personal choice. Like said above the worst part is a lighter wallet. Pinning once a week is no big deal. I was on over a year and came off for a couple months at the beginning of the year. I bounced back no problem. However you will loose some gains and fat control is much harder! For these reasons I may not come off again unless I want another kid.

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I was using HCG 500iu a week on the last cycle. My nuts were way bigger than usual so maybe I got desensitized or something. I wasn't taking enough adex either. PCT was 2 weeks of Clomid at 100mg with 40 mg of Nolva. Then another two weeks of 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva.

Over on T Nation they recommend a 6-8 week PCT with the dose about half of the above and tapering down from there. I'm probably going to do another cycle at some point, and do a longer PCT after. If I bounce back, great. If not, I stay on.

I don't love the idea of being dependent on a needle for the next 40 years, but the alternative is feeling and looking shitty for the next 40 years.

JEFF! said:

Yeah, I know doctors wouldn't be any help at this point. My doctor asked me was I using steroids. I told him no, half-truth. But he will figure it out when he runs my blood work and I have no LH. Don't know how that conversation will go.



I was using HCG 500iu a week on the last cycle. My nuts were way bigger than usual so maybe I got desensitized or something. I wasn't taking enough adex either. PCT was 2 weeks of Clomid at 100mg with 40 mg of Nolva. Then another two weeks of 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva.

Over on T Nation they recommend a 6-8 week PCT with the dose about half of the above and tapering down from there. I'm probably going to do another cycle at some point, and do a longer PCT after. If I bounce back, great. If not, I stay on.

I don't love the idea of being dependent on a needle for the next 40 years, but the alternative is feeling and looking shitty for the next 40 years.

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I remember when I use to use 500 Hcg a week and none in pct. I have learned! On cycle I do 1000hcg a week. When I come off (if I do) I will do 1500 3 x a week the last couple weeks. Then when done I'll do 2500 Hcg 3x for that week. Hcg is the key. I learned this from Rich Piana and its the way to go! He doesn't use clomid or Nolva but I don't think I would go that far. May as well get all the help you can.

JEFF! said:

Yeah, I know doctors wouldn't be any help at this point.

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This really depends on where you go. There are clinics that do nothing but HRT. Depending on where you live, you might go to one of those places if there is one near you. I started on HRT at such a place when I lived in Vegas. They're all over the place out there. The guy that runs the place I was going also has one in NYC (it's a franchise).

His comment to me when I first went (my T level was around 440 at 42 years old) was that everyone under 650 gets treated if they present symptoms.

Now, a place like that, they're in business solely to administer HRT. And they're likely to not accept insurance, and it's far more expensive than getting what you need from a UGL and doing it on your own. But you have the benefit of a legal script, regular bloodwork, etc.

But I'm jumping the gun, really. Sounds like you're getting some good advice on PCT. And at 31 and where your levels are (assuming free test is in the range) with good PCT it seems like you should be fine. No need to go on HRT permanently any sooner than you have to, if at all.

if you have a healthy baseline natural testosterone level i would discourage you from blasting and cruising...because youll end up on hrt for life.. i would know, im on it.. here is what i have to deal with1. 5 injections a week... test monday and thursday, hcg m w f (usually it would just be m and th but im having fertility issues)2. adex twice a week3. blood donations every 2 months4. regular check ups with my doc including blood workits a lifestyle change.. be ready to be committed

3J said:

if you have a healthy baseline natural testosterone level i would discourage you from blasting and cruising...because youll end up on hrt for life.. i would know, im on it.. here is what i have to deal with1. 5 injections a week... test monday and thursday, hcg m w f (usually it would just be m and th but im having fertility issues)2. adex twice a week3. blood donations every 2 months4. regular check ups with my doc including blood workits a lifestyle change.. be ready to be committed

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Not to sound like a brat, but I do know what it means. Needles every week for the rest of my life. Watching blood pressure, cholesterol, prostate for the rest of my life, having to plan shots around travel if I don't have a script. Inevitably, getting a bad batch of gear... or maybe having to shop clinics until I find a decent one and then paying out the ass for it.

I'm not sold on it and I'm not going to jump into it. But, I'm being real about the possibility because it looks like I don't bounce right back from gear. So I can either quit bodybuilding completely because all the work isn't worth it for glacial progress.

Or keep cycling and sooner or later coming off is no longer an option.

Another thing g here to weigh is if you have made the decision that body building is a function of your life for the rest of your life, something you truly enjoy, and don't function well without as I'm sure alot of brothers on these boards have then trt is just a part of the life no different than prepping meals,counting macros,planning cycles etc. Really cruising is more about how important of a part of your life body building is.

Homebrew cures most of those issues...

Quality?
Use a good powder source.

Have enough?
You could make YEARS worth of gear for cheap, and already have it ready.

As far as blood pressure etc.
You should be doing that anyways.

I don't see a doctor, but I never use UGL for cruising or TRT purpose. I'll use UGL when blasting but when I cruise I want it to be perfect and I want to know it's dosed correctly.

It's really easy to get pharma grade test without a script. Basically going through www.pct-shop.com it costs all of $5 dollars a week to run 250mg's of Test a week that's straight from the pharmacy. Same with their pharma grade ancillaries. Basically anything you could need. That's a lot cheaper then most people who end up seeing a doctor. I prefer to just do it myself. And then when i'm ready to blast I stock up on their UGL line and have at it.

Feel free to hit me up if you have any questions.