Obamacare!

Ox 51

Musclechemistry Guru
What a big mess this bill is! Why can't they see that healthcare and insurance are two different things? Insurance is the problem, not the solution. So, why are we trying to force more insurance on people. Insurance is the reason that no one can afford to go to the doctor. Insurance is the reason that no one can afford a prescription.

Insurance should only be in place as a safety net against disasters, like hospitalization. It shouldn't cover every little trip to the doctor. When you get your oil changed, do you pay a co-pay? Hell no, you pay for the oil change. You pay for the new tires and wiper blades. Do you know what an oil change would cost if insurance covered them?

Change insurance to cover the big things only and insurance premiums would become affordable and so would doctor's visits.
 
funny how the senate oppted out for themselves before passing it. (also before they read it)
Just like social security.
 
Exactly! The sheer size of the bill scares the hell out of me? How much is hidden in there?
 
The conservative justices ate the Solicitor General alive.

At a minimum the mandate get struck down, hopefully the entire bill gets thrown out.
 
Its a mess....hopefully it gets shot down. The gov't should not be able to force you to buy anything
 
It's the start of US socialism.... Unfortunately :-(


It started a long time ago. What do you think Social Security and medicare are. This is simply expansion of government thats all Democrats want. More taxes more government.
 
It started a long time ago. What do you think Social Security and medicare are. This is simply expansion of government thats all Democrats want. More taxes more government.

Agreed. Although, I was referring to the fact that you will not have the option but to pay for "insurance" for yourself and basically anyone else who can't afford it on their own. Distribute the wealth. It's wrong.
 
This is just another step towards the inevitable downfall of the country. I just found out my insurance isn't paying for many of my treatments. Why? Because they don't want to... Yet my employer MAKES me pay for healthcare. This is nothing new, just Govt expansion.
 
It's the start of US socialism.... Unfortunately :-(

Its not socialism at all not even close. Socialism is when the govt controls all the means of production.

What you have in America is Corporatism and an Oligarchy.

Look up the definition of these two terms and tell me I am wrong.
 
Its not socialism at all not even close. Socialism is when the govt controls all the means of production.

What you have in America is Corporatism and an Oligarchy.

Look up the definition of these two terms and tell me I am wrong.

I am honestly curious. How in the hell do you know all this shit?! I mean really?! I relish the opportunity to get into any sort of debate about politics, world or local events, patterns of behavior, etc, but you are always above my head.
 
I am honestly curious. How in the hell do you know all this shit?! I mean really?! I relish the opportunity to get into any sort of debate about politics, world or local events, patterns of behavior, etc, but you are always above my head.

You know Biochemistry and Anatomy and Physiology and I know Political Science and Govt.

What can I say.
 
what I want to know is how can they impose a fine on people that don't have health insurance??? they don't have money for the insurance but they have money for the fine???
 
what I want to know is how can they impose a fine on people that don't have health insurance??? they don't have money for the insurance but they have money for the fine???

It's simple really. By design Obamacare is ment to put health insurance companies out of business and I'll give you a few example of just how it will happen if it's found to be constitutional.

Businesses of 50 employees or more must provide insurance for employees or pay a fine. Well using my business as a small example the owners spend about 4000 per employee per year on health insurance. So by design the government will make the fine so attractive to the business owner that the will decide to just pay the fine and save thousands per employee and in doing so they force people onto the govt health care plan instead of a private plan like Bluecross. Eventually with so many people force out of private insurance the end goal is 100% control of health care in this country. If they control when, where and why you see a doctor then they control everything about you by dangling the carrot of life in front of you. Do as we say, get the shot we say or else. The govt can withhold your tax refund because you did not take our mandatory mercury filled swine flu vaccine last year. "youre a risk to the public". Lots of ugly thing happen when the govt controls if you get fixed or not.

Another problem is making insurance companies cover pre existing conditions. This drives up costs. So a person that has a disease that two years ago prevented them from getting insurance now can get a policy that cost a couple hundred dollars a month but now cost insurance companies several thousand dollars per month therefore driving up cost to everyone else. Remember insurance companies are not in business to pay claims. Thet are in business to make a fair profit. Obamacare is ment to put insurance companies out of business by making them endure cost that they never had to account for before.

What we need is to get rid of MOST health insurance completely. We need to have people pay Doctors directly for the procedure that is preformed. There are fields of medicine where insurance does not cover the procedure and the cost of those perceedres are coming down because of competetion. Those fields are plastic surgery and LASIK eye surgery. Because insurance does not cover these perceedres there is competition between doctors and doctors have to lower cost in order to get new patients. The only insurance most people need is for something catastrophic. Get a cancer ins policy, or get a health savings account incase you break something.

Insurance just raises the cost of everyday medical proceedres. With regular doctors that take insurance they keep raising the cost of the procedure, bill the insurance companies and they in turn keep raising the cost of the premium you pay. If all insurance disappeared tomorrow and you had to walk in and pay the doctor up front and there was no insurance the cost of what you pay for going and seeing a doctor would fall like a blind roofer. Why pay $200 a month for insurance just to go see a doctor once a year and pay your $50 copay just so the doctor can bill the insurance company $400 for something you could have waked in off te street and paid cash for and the Docor could have charged you $125 for. It's a racket and we are all getting screwed by the system.

Insurance and govt skew the free market and drive up cost. A free market for health care is what's needed. And anytime the govt gets involved in the market place they force up the cost of the product weather it be the cost of going to school because of govt back student loans or the housing market by the govt backing loans for sub prime mortgages ect. The list goes on and on....

Get govt out of healthcare and the cost will go down.
 
You hit it on the head, Ch3no2. The big problem is not the individual mandate, it is forcing employers to cover employees or pay a fine that is less than the coverage. Any smart employer will pay the fine. The individual mandate was just added to distract everyone from the real bad aspects of the bill.
 
so they fucking force the small business to pay for the employee's medical...this drives the small business under or they have to lay people off...

THUS, higher unemployment-FUCKING GENIUS

THUS, more people on welfare-which means more people depending on the system AKA buying votes-FUCKING GENIUS AGAIN

WOW I love this demon craticy that we live in-ONCE AGAIN I FALL ON MY PREMISE THAT EVERYTHING IS A SCAM!
 
It'd definitely be a no brainer to pay a fine rather than pay for insurance if it's less, but then certain companies would get a bad rep if they continuously did that
 
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